Distinction between "theme park enthusiast" and "Disney Adult"

[Tony the Tigger]

The one thing about "IP" rides is that perhaps the popularity of the IP lets the ride builders get lazy with the ride itself? Thinking of something like the Little Mermaid ride.

It’s possible. More likely to me is we have expectations of having our minds blown by one single new attraction as if it were our first day at WDW.

Compare Snow White’s Scary Adventures with The Little Mermaid. Both aimed at the younger set. Both fairly tame and simple. Was Snow so brilliant? Mermaid has much more to it. It has more to it than Dumbo, Tea Cups, etc.

The first time I went to WDW, my closest frame of reference was Six Flags. So there was a lot of, “Hmm that’s not what I expected” but also some, “That’s it?”

But overall, there was a charm in the theming, and a comfort in the bubble. It wasn’t until I got home I realized I wanted to go back. The whole was greater than the sum of its parts, as they say.

The Mine Train wasn’t mind-blowing, either. Maybe I’d have more reverence for it if it had been there on my first trip.

 

[Chi84]

The parks aren't as good as they can be because I don't care if someone calls me a "Disney Adult" because I enjoy going to the theme parks.
Makes perfect sense!

It's not just your lack of concern for the state of the parks. Coupled with your practice of buying tickets to Boo Bash and Disney After Hours - instead of broiling in the hot sun as the park gods (a/k/a designers) intended - you're singlehandedly killing WDW. I just ask that you leave the place standing until after my May vacation.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The parks aren't as good as they can be because I don't care if someone calls me a "Disney Adult" because I enjoy going to the theme parks.
Makes perfect sense!

That’s not what @Animaniac93-98 was getting at.

What they were getting at, actually, is the lack of concern from longtime guests and fans only fuels Disney’s, particularly TDO’s, lack of urgency, care, concerns, etc. about making sure things like maintenance and overall quality are put into place. The decline will just continue, but who cares, right?! I’m still having a great time and will continue to shell out my money, no matter what!

Yeah.

 

[Chi84]

In some ways it was much better when I was growing up. I was more impressed with the dark rides that was in Epcot back then. IMO Horizons, Works of Motion and Body Wars blows away any of the new attractions they have since added They had good stories and didn't have IP slapped on it. It feels now that it's less about the ride and more about the IP they can attach to it.

I will give you a good example of what you said. I believe it was you who mentioned it before that Six Flags Great America was better when Marriott owned it. Now it's a park you would never visit again.

Marriott's Great America was an excellent local, one-day park. Even in its best days it couldn't compete with any of the four WDW theme parks as they exist now.

I agree about Epcot. The updates and changes there have always struck me as poorly thought out. It's no longer my favorite park, but we still enjoy it.

 

[Chi84]

That’s not what @Animaniac93-98 was getting at.

What they were getting at, actually, is the lack of concern from longtime guests and fans only fuels Disney’s, particularly TDO’s, lack of urgency, care, concerns, etc. about making sure things like maintenance and overall quality are put into place. The decline will just continue, but who cares, right?! I’m still having a great time and will continue to shell out my money, no matter what!

Yeah.

What do you propose the longtime guests do?

 

[Californian Elitist]

What do you propose the longtime guests do?

The longtime guests who actually care enough will likely stop going altogether or significantly lessen the amount of times they go, and they are already doing that. The ones who don’t care enough will keep going. There’s no getting through. They’re enjoying themselves too much. Because they are the majority, no change will come anytime soon.

 

[Jrb1979]

Marriott's Great America was an excellent local, one-day park. Even in its best days it couldn't compete with any of the four WDW theme parks as they exist now.

I agree about Epcot. The updates and changes there have always struck me as poorly thought out. It's no longer my favorite park, but we still enjoy it.

Now you probably never set foot in Great America and have seen the decline in the park. That was my point in how some see the decline of WDW. It doesn't bother me one way or another if people still enjoy it or still like going. I just don't see the value in it right now.

 

[LittleBuford]

The longtime guests who actually care enough will likely stop going altogether or significantly lessen the amount of times they go, and they are already doing that. The ones who don’t care enough will keep going. There’s no getting through. They’re enjoying themselves too much. Because they are the majority, no change will come anytime soon.

I am a longtime guest (though my trips are short and fairly infrequent) and still enjoy the experience immensely. I don't consider myself undiscerning or uncritical—I care a great deal about the parks—yet I am nowhere near the point of wanting to reduce the time I spend in them. Once again, I find myself outside the framing you've set up, and wondering why we need to frame things in such ways to begin with.

 

[dreday3]

It's not just your lack of concern for the state of the parks. Coupled with your practice of buying tickets to Boo Bash and Disney After Hours - instead of broiling in the hot sun as the park gods (a/k/a designers) intended - you're singlehandedly killing WDW. I just ask that you leave the place standing until after my May vacation.

I make no promises.

I have plans to ruin the cruise industry too by purchasing drink and dining packages!

 

[Californian Elitist]

I am a longtime guest (though my trips are short and fairly infrequent) and still enjoy the experience immensely. I don't consider myself undiscerning or uncritical—I care a great deal about the parks—yet I am nowhere near the point of wanting to reduce the time I spend in them. Once again, I find myself outside the framing you've set up, and wondering why we need to frame things in such ways to begin with.

I’m sure everyone cares, to an extent. That’s why I said “care enough.” However, it can’t be denied that some care a lot more than others and in different ways. Some don’t care as much, such as yourself, as you have no plans to reduce your visits. That’s fine, everyone should do as they please. But, this type of attitude towards the parks, coupled with TDO not caring enough, don’t shift any change towards better quality.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

The longtime guests who actually care enough will likely stop going altogether or significantly lessen the amount of times they go, and they are already doing that. The ones who don’t care enough will keep going. There’s no getting through. They’re enjoying themselves too much. Because they are the majority, no change will come anytime soon.

Honestly, I have been finding the costs and hassle too much to bother with WDW and am happy going elsewhere for the time being with the odd trip to Disneyland Paris thrown in as it's relatively close and I find it a more relaxing visit.

That said, if the majority are happy with what Disney are providing then I kind of feel the Serenity Prayer (God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference) sums up the situation! I don't think other people are wrong if they're happy with the experience they're getting, nor do I think Disney is wrong to be providing an experience that seems to keep them in ever-rising attendance and profits. If they end up alienating their customers through negative changes, that's up to Disney to correct. If what Disney is doing is not for me, I just won't go.

In short, I get debating the things we like and don't like on here as that's the point of the forums. I don't get blaming people who enjoy the parks for ruining them, particularly when all of us on the forum could probably stop going and it wouldn't make much of a difference to attendance numbers.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Honestly, I have been finding the costs and hassle too much to bother with WDW and am happy going elsewhere for the time being with the odd trip to Disneyland Paris thrown in as it's relatively close and I find it a more relaxing visit.

That said, if the majority are happy with what Disney are providing then I kind of feel the Serenity Prayer (God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference) sums up the situation! I don't think other people are wrong if they're happy with the experience they're getting, nor do I think Disney is wrong to be providing an experience that seems to keep them in ever-rising attendance and profits. If they end up alienating their customers through negative changes, that's up to Disney to correct. If what Disney is doing is not for me, I just won't go.

In short, I get debating the things we like and don't like on here as that's the point of the forums. I don't get blaming people who enjoy the parks for ruining them, particularly when those of us on here could probably all stop going and it wouldn't make much difference to attendance numbers.

I didn’t say people were wrong for enjoying themselves. I said things aren’t likely going to change because guests and fans don’t care enough. I also didn’t and don’t blame guests for ruining the parks.

For years, I’ve read posts from folks here about the decline at WDW, maintenance issues, etc. I didn’t get a better grasp as to what they were talking about until I visited MK for the first time last year. To put it bluntly, I was appalled by many things that I saw. Trash in the queues and around the park in general, including in ride vehicles, dirty ride vehicles, a weird smell coming from CoP, broken ride effects, and nasty bathrooms. I walked into one women’s bathroom and was disgusted by literally every single soiled toilet and trash everywhere. I turned around and walked out, electing to find a different, cleaner bathroom, but plenty of women were in there and had no problem using the dirty toilets. This is an example of what I’m getting at.

 

[LittleBuford]

Some don’t care as much, such as yourself

That isn't really your call to make, though. I believe I care a great deal. I started a whole thread about the orientation of the Ionic column capitals at the American Adventure, for goodness' sake, and I bored everyone to tears with my complaints about the botched spice-cart inscriptions at the Morocco pavilion.

Perhaps by "don't care", you mean "aren't as bothered by the things that bother me". That's fine, but it isn't an objective standard, and it has very little to do with caring as I define it.

 

[Chi84]

The longtime guests who actually care enough will likely stop going altogether or significantly lessen the amount of times they go, and they are already doing that. The ones who don’t care enough will keep going. There’s no getting through. They’re enjoying themselves too much. Because they are the majority, no change will come anytime soon.

I would have proposed something different. Disney doesn't care about people who are no longer visiting the parks. But it does pay attention to the guest satisfaction surveys, and I have received phone calls twice based on emails I sent them detailing particular problems we had on two trips. One resulted in some pretty fantastic (and totally unexpected) guest recovery.

The larger question is why Disney would change if the majority of guests are "enjoying themselves too much."

The longtime guests aren't to blame for not caring enough and even if you think they are, there is no way those guests can fix it (especially by not visiting anymore). The parks are too popular and there are too many others to take their place. The changes took place because of decisions made by those in charge, and the only way things will change at Disney is if the company wants to change.

Obviously, if the parks get to the point that enough people stop enjoying them and go elsewhere, market forces will likely effect changes. But as you said, that won't happen anytime soon.

 

[Californian Elitist]

That isn't really your call to make, though. I believe I care a great deal. I started a whole thread about the orientation of the Ionic column capitals at the American Adventure, for goodness' sake, and I bored everyone to tears with my complaints about the botched spice-cart inscriptions at the Morocco pavilion.

Perhaps by "don't care", you mean "aren't as bothered by the things that bother me". That's fine, but it isn't an objective standard, and it has very little to do with caring as I define it.

That’s the way it comes off to me. Don’t care as much/aren’t as bothered are synonymous. Never said it was and objective fact, my friend. We define it differently. That’s okay.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I would have proposed something different. Disney doesn't care about people who are no longer visiting the parks. But it does pay attention to the guest satisfaction surveys, and I have received phone calls twice based on emails I sent them detailing particular problems we had on two trips. One resulted in some pretty fantastic (and totally unexpected) guest recovery.

The larger question is why Disney would change if the majority of guests are "enjoying themselves too much."

The longtime guests aren't to blame for not caring enough and even if you think they are, there is no way those guests can fix it (especially by not visiting anymore). The parks are too popular and there are too many others to take their place. The changes took place because of decisions made by those in charge, and the only way things will change at Disney is if the company wants to change.

Obviously, if the parks get to the point that enough people stop enjoying them and go elsewhere, market forces will likely effect changes. But as you said, that won't happen anytime soon.

I didn’t say the guests are fully to blame. I said guests who are unbothered/don’t care enough to stop going, coupled with TDO not caring is the problem. Most of the blame should be put on TDO. But a situation where two groups are working in tandem doesn’t solve anything.

We agree that things won’t be changing time soon. Not only does TDO seemingly not care, but they’re cheap, too.

 

[LittleBuford]

That’s the way it comes off to me. Don’t care as much/aren’t as bothered are synonymous. Never said it was and objective fact, my friend. We define it differently. That’s okay.

We all care about different things. I would never accuse those who weren't as bothered by the Morocco inscriptions (and most weren't) of not caring. At the end of the day, we're all passionate about the parks and want them to be excellent.

 

[Californian Elitist]

We all care about different things. I wouldn't never accuse those who weren't as bothered by the Morocco inscriptions (and most weren't) of not caring. At the end of the day, we're all passionate about the parks and want them to be excellent.

Well, you and I differ there, as I have no problem accusing people of not caring as much (key words, “as much”). We’re also looking at this from different perspectives.

 

[networkpro]

Its the difference between a parasocial attachment and a consumer.

 

[LittleBuford]

Its the difference between a parasocial attachment and a consumer.
View attachment 694151

How does this map onto the Disney Adult vs. theme-park fan or the "cares enough" vs. "doesn't care enough" models?