Disney's Storybook Kingdom Park

[meeko_33785]

Thanks for your thoughts. Like a regular Disney park, this park will never be compleeted either and there are always expansion plans in the work. Aladdin has been on the board for about a year, as have Mulan, Tarzan, and American Legends (the last of which has been indefinatly shelved since it has been too difficult to make it not similar to Frontierland at MK). Also, I know the 100 Acre Woods needs some work (Ok, a lot of work) but to be honest that land was fairly low on the priority list when it came to designing them. If anyone has any ideas for the land I would love to hear them. Thanks.

 

[FigmentDream]

Pavillions ->

Originally posted by meeko_33785
I think I see what your saying, but you're looking at the diffrent areas as "lands" like Magic Kingdom. There each land has a very broad theme (Frontier America, the Future, Exotic places of the world, ect.) The areas of this park are more like those at EPCOT, "pavillions" if you will, that have smaller topics (Health, Nutrition, Mexico, France, ect.) and fewer attractions that the lands of the Magic Kingdom. Also, expansion plans for this park would most likely add more "pavillions" insteed of adding more atractions to exhisting lands.

Well, if these "areas" are more like pavillions you need to do alot of choping of rides and some of the shops and restaurants. Look at the size of EPCOT's pavillions, they each only have 1-2 Attractions and the ones that have large rides only have 1 attraction. I belive with three smaller attractions you could cetaintly fit up to 3 but I would have to say that is the limmit. Otherwise you do have lands and you are streaching yourself thin. There should only be about 1 sitdown and 1 counter siverice eatery max per land. Shops should almost be limited to one per pavillion, depending on the indirect themes addtional could be added.

 

[meeko_33785]

Re: Pavillions ->

Originally posted by FigmentDream
Well, if these "areas" are more like pavillions you need to do alot of choping of rides and some of the shops and restaurants. Look at the size of EPCOT's pavillions, they each only have 1-2 Attractions and the ones that have large rides only have 1 attraction. I belive with three smaller attractions you could cetaintly fit up to 3 but I would have to say that is the limmit.

That's cutting it a little thin. Keep in mind at opening EPCOT had twice as many pavillions as this park does so there should be more shopping, dinning, and attractions in each pavillion. If you look right now, most lands don't have more than 3 attractions with the exception of Pleasure Island (which is ecentially two different areas, the midway and the village).

Originally posted by FigmentDream
There should only be about 1 sitdown and 1 counter siverice eatery max per land. Shops should almost be limited to one per pavillion, depending on the indirect themes addtional could be added.

Most only have one counter service, some snack stands, and maybe a sitdown. As for shops, I think one per land is a little small (8 shops in the whole park? The France and UK Pavillions at EPCOT combined have neerly that many).

Originally posted by FigmentDream
Otherwise you do have lands and you are streaching yourself thin.

Is there any way that you be a little more specific here? Which lands do you see s streeching too thin? I'm sorry, but I just can't see what you mean.

 

[FigmentDream]

True, choping would greatly decrease the number of your rides but then you just need to add more pavillions. And no 8 shops in a park like this would be fine. For instance let's look at your B&B area:
"
Shops:
Belle’s Book Store: Book store named after the famous heroine where guests find a variety of books, including some based on Disney films.

Chip’s Toy Shop: This is where guests will find many toys based on characters from Beauty and the Beast, along with other Disney films.

Cogsworth’s Timepieces: This shop named after the stuffy mantle clock includes a selection of watches, including limited edition and custom made timepieces.

Le Cuisine: French for “the kitchen”, guests will find a variety of French and Disney themed cookware and culinary items.

Le Chapeau: This small hat shop includes a variety of headgear, including character hats, Mickey Mouse ears, and monogramming.

Village Gifts: This is where guests will find a selection of merchandise based on the French countryside, along with some based on nearby attractions."

Personally I do not go to Disney to spend several hours sifting through merchandise that I can buy back home for cheaper. For this area inpatriculair I would suggest combine the whol area into one small shop only carrying Beauty & the Beast mechandise.
Look at Adventureland for example there is that one store behind the flying carpet Agrabah Bizzare, I belive, it sells merchandise with an Exotic/Adventureland theme. There is no Jasmines Jewel shop that sells a vareity of jewlery and some Disney themed costume jewlery. Many of the the types of shops you have suggested are only found in a Mainstreet type environement or at Downtwon Disney.

The resteraunt situation you have right now is okay, but I was sugesting based of my sugestion of choping. I you would make these pavillion-esc lands into pavillions, the number you have would be boarderline exsesive and in an attractin based park, not a experince based park like WS(for that section of the park)Restaunts and shops become much more important.

As far as spreading yourself thin, I mean that you produced a park with themes fit for pavillions carried out through lands. There is a corrliation between the generality of the theme and the size of the area. Pavillions have a narrow theme and therefore have a small area, lands have a broad theme and therefore have a larger area. In a sense when one adds a narrow theme to a large area, that matieral of the attractions become redundent and have a less thorough themeing because it was "spread to thin" across more attractions than the theme could handel. One good high quality attraction per area plus an occasional tied in simple attraction would be more than efficiant'; or three simple attractions which tie in at three diferent aspects of the film(3 diffenret charachters perhapse)woudl also work well. The problem is when a guest sees the same story or narrow theme or portions of the before mentioned over and over again the excitment rating and "comodity" quality of the theme drop through the floor.


Take my suggestions or do what you like it is no different to me, I am just trying to give you an opinion from the view of a themepark scholar.

 

[meeko_33785]

Ok, perhaps I made a mistake in calling them "pavillions". They arrn't really pavillions, but then again, they arn't lands either. They're somewht smaller than the lands of MK, but larger than the pavillions of EPCOT. If you are attempting to turn these into EPCOT pavillions, it's not going to work. This isn't EPCOT, and it shouldn't be expected to be such. The same can be said of MK. In truth, this is it's own park and it was probably poor choice of words to compare it to EPCOT.

As for Belle's Village, what I posted probably makes it sound like there is more gift shops than there are. For instance, Village Gifts, Le Cuisine, and Cogsworth's Timepieces are all one shop but have different names for each of the three rooms. This is primarily because in a small French village and would probably have many small shops insteed of a few larger shops. Belle's Village was also designed as one of the major shopping destinations for the park similar to Sunet Boulevard at MGM, not the primary shopping destination but the park's secondary. You'll notice most others have fewer shops, no more than 4 not counted merchendice carts. I'm sorry if I sound upset, but Belle's Village hs been my pet project for the park and is my favorite of al the relms.

Also I think I understand what you say about spreeding myself thin, but I don't believe that has happened yet. Most of the attractions are not repetitive and do not repete any of the storyline in multiple attractions. For example, Snow White's Forest has one attraction dealing with the dimond mine, a walkthrough of the cottage and then a ride through the castle and haunted forest. Never to these aspects cross or are included in the other attrractions. The only case that can be made for this is Belle's Village which does feature the Be Our Guest scene in multiple attractions (the show and the dark ride). If the idea of having that scene in both attractions is unthinkable, please say so. If so, I might be able to chnge the ride to make it less repetative. Or perhaps someone else has an idea of what could make a better finale.

 

[meeko_33785]

Well I did some thinking and I think you may be right, it does seem like there may be too many shops in the park. I'll start trying to chop it down a little. Nothing too drastic, most likely just removing a maximum of one shop per realm. I'll get back on which ones are staying and leaving soon.

Also, I still havn't posted entertainment for the park, primarily because I can't think of a parade that would fit here. It would go through the Storybook Square area which has the theming of kind of a Bavarian storybook village and the streets arn't big enough to have huge floats (more like AK's). If anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them.

 

[FigmentDream]

Originally posted by meeko_33785
Ok, perhaps I made a mistake in calling them "pavillions". They arrn't really pavillions, but then again, they arn't lands either. They're somewht smaller than the lands of MK, but larger than the pavillions of EPCOT. If you are attempting to turn these into EPCOT pavillions, it's not going to work. This isn't EPCOT, and it shouldn't be expected to be such. The same can be said of MK. In truth, this is it's own park and it was probably poor choice of words to compare it to EPCOT.

Well there are still universal guidelines to how to create areas of a theme park even if it does not resemble one already exsisting. The only type of area between a pavillion and a land that has worked is a mini/sub-land. This area has a general theme but the has more specifically themed sub sections. I think this could be achived simply in your park with out changing really anything. All you would have to do would to be group several of your areas togehter under a more general theme, and have there be an entrance off of the hub area. Basically keep everything the same except add 3-4 mini-sub areas off of the hub that act as gateways to several of your areas. Each mini-hub should have the general theme of the several areas that it connests to.

As far as shops go if you would cut down that would help, but the main problem really is the merchandise. If you could cut out all the non-Disney merchandise(except in the entrance/mainstreet areas) it would help greatly. It would be even better if you could restrict the merchandise to be themed to the specific area.(ie only B&B and some similar merchandise(cartoonish french) in the B&B area and so on).

Still as far a the "spreading thin" problem you do only have one instance of direct redundency, yes the "be our guest", but I also pointed out a second problem of not thorough enough themeing and comodity value problems. If the same story is presented even in non-overlaping ways the "value" of the story becomes much less and it is not as much of a "must see" in a theme park; an amusment park on the other hand only the ride is valued; at a theme park the theme is valued and storyline is part of that theme. The themeing can also becomed watered down when the whole story is not present and I feel this has happened in many of your areas. With Snow White for example the mines, the cottage and the castle/woods alone all have weak themes, where as one ride encorperating all of those would have a strong theme. I would sugest to make the cottage walkthrough part of an elaborate queue, then start the ride with the mine ride then you take a wrong turn go out the wrong shaft then end up in the forest/castle area. I realize that this may mess up demographic clasification of the rides so another alternative would be to combine the cottage again as part of the queue to the mine ride. Then leave the castl/woods alone. Sort of having a light and dark side to the land.

These again are just all sugestions take them how you wish, this is your park.

 

[meeko_33785]

I like your ideas. Maybe group Mickey, Ariel, and Belle into one "Village" themed area, Snow White and Pooh into a forest themed area, and Pleasure Island, Hercules, and maybe Aladdin or Tarzan into an Adventure themed land and then have the different areas into sublands in it. That wouldn't be too difficult to do and would still give the feeling that you have entered the world of particular story.

As for Snow White, you have a point. The solution I think would work would be for the Dwarfs cottage to go after the mine ride and that the exit would feed into the cottage's entrance similar how Kilamanjaro Safaris at AK also drops you into Pangani Forest. There could also be a way that the cottage walk-through can be skipped by those getting off the ride and entered by those who never got on the ride.

As for having the story being told through multiple attractions, I don't see this as too big of problem. The only lands where this could potentionally be a problem would probably be Snow White and Pinocchhio. Some solutions might be possibly removing the Pinocchio characters from the Pleasure Island ride (it could easily be done without them and the ride would not be as confusing if someone would see the ride first and then see the show second causing the story to be out of sequence). Having the ride just be generic and have you going to Pleasure Island would not hurt the story neerly as much. As for Snow White, you have a point there as well. The solution I think would work would be for the Dwarfs cottage to go after the mine ride and that the exit would feed into the cottage's entrance similar how Kilamanjaro Safaris at AK also drops you into Pangani Forest. There could also be a way that the cottage walk-through can be skipped by those getting off the ride and entered by those who never got on the ride.

As for Chips Tea Cup spin dropping the "Be Our Guest" finale would probably be helpful as well so it would tell no story whatsoever and just more or less just a tour of the castle. Possibly usuing "Human Again" insteed of "Be Our Guest" as a theme for the ride could be better as well. Any thoughts?

As for the non-Disney merchendice, I don't see why that wouldn't work. For example the lands of the Magic Kingdom have many shops that have non-Disney related merchendice (Arfican crafts in Adventureland, suits of armor in Fantasyland, woodcarving in Frontierland, ect.). I think people would enjoy seeing more merchendice in the paks than just Mickey Mouse T-shirts.

 

[FigmentDream]

Originally posted by meeko_33785

As for the non-Disney merchendice, I don't see why that wouldn't work. For example the lands of the Magic Kingdom have many shops that have non-Disney related merchendice (Arfican crafts in Adventureland, suits of armor in Fantasyland, woodcarving in Frontierland, ect.). I think people would enjoy seeing more merchendice in the paks than just Mickey Mouse T-shirts.

I also said that merchandise that is themed to the area could stay,"It would be even better if you could restrict the merchandise to be themed to the specific area.(ie only B&B and some similar merchandise(cartoonish french) in the B&B area and so on)." For the B&B area I suggested that items that resemble a French products, but not so true to life that it would conflict with WS merchandise. Also if you look at an earlier post of mine I mentioned how mercahndise at MK is themed to the lands. It appeared though that you had quite abit of very loosley themed merchandise that was non-Disney. For example Bell's Bookstore having non-Disney books would only be very loosley and indiredtly themed to the land; although books ingeneral have something to do with B&B the acutal books being sold would not. However the store carrying more related special products like a Disney made book on how to learn French specializing in Disney related words, would work just fine.

As far as story slicing goes it just would be more through and give a stronger theme to the attraction if larger portions of the story can be told. At the same time weaker themed attractions with verry small story pieces or even just themed to a character can add much needed diversity. Just aslong as redundency is avoided(at all levels direct and indirect) and the slicing is divers enough it should not be a problem.


Onto another topic; perhapse your parade could you use smaller versions of giant ballons instead of floats in your parade. These could be designed to be narrow enough to fit the street or could fly high enough to miss the restriction of buidings or facades.

 

[meeko_33785]

First FigmentDream, I do want to thank you for all your help. It is all very much appreciated. Second, I see what you mean about merhcendice, and yet don't agree in some respects. I do agree that the book shop should be more kept to Disney related books and probably fairy tales as well (that's what Belle always read, so it would fit fine in theming). However, I don't see how it would conflict with WS merchandise. The Arabian memorobilia sold at the Bazaar in Adventureland does not conflict with the shops in Morocco or the coo-coo clocks sold in the Castle don't conflict with the shops in Germany. The real products will stay if for no other reason than to give something of intrest to those who may want to see more than attractions based on animated chracters (which brings to mind an interesting question, should the next land be perhaps a live action film that may get a more adult audience, Swiss Family Robinson or 20,000 Legues perhaps? Maybe even revive the lost Discovery Bay concept).

I have gone back and made some more changes to some of the attractions to avoid redundancy (Pleasure Island, Dwarfs Mine Train, Hercules Charriot ride) and I may post the changes to them in another post. The only one I'm not sure how to rework is the Chip's Tea Cup Spin. The only problem is the finale (since most of events and characters from the rest of the ride were ignored in the show). Still not sure what would make a better finale. Then again, would it be any more redundant than having the Queen from Snow White transform into the Witch on the Snow White ride at MK and DL and have her do it again during MK's Castle Show and Parade and at DL's Fantasmic?

 

[meeko_33785]

OK, here are my initial shop changes.

Pleaure Island- Jimminy's is gone. It's been reduced to only an on-ride photo kiosk. The shop seemed redundat since most of the same merchendise can be found across the steet at Geppettos as well.

100 Acre Woods- Tresspasser's Will is gone. Not only was it unessisary but it seemed too odd having a toy shop in Piglet's House.

Belle's Village- Le Chapeau is gone. The land has plenty of shops already and there can't be a huge demand for hats. Perhaps if there is, I could easily just add a cart selling more hats at the Pleasure Island midway or something.

I think that should be enough. Anyone think there should be more cut?