News Disney's Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show will not reopen and is permanently closed according to reports

[jasminethecat]

I think it's worth pointing out again, that they can't staff or operate the parks without having to manage yield, but yet adding MORE hotel rooms is going to do what?... Somehow fix the issue of not having enough things for folks to do?

So we take a dinner show away, as well in the process, so what people have... again LESS to do?

Pay more for less value, it's the Bob's Way!

You're right about the value only if you were planning on being one of those few hundred people to attend a luau. If you weren't booking a luau then your value stays the same. Value isn't an accumulation of everything on prem you would never do. If they close a golf course or even shut down whole resort you would never go to, your value in going to WDW doesn't go down.

I am also not sure why you think that adding 500 more DVC rooms (I doubled the number of balconies and rounded way up from the concept art) will impact the park's daily yield, when most days they are not at capacity. Even if they were going to be at capacity all disney needs to do is offer slightly fewer park reservations to annual pass holders or refuse to book one wing in one of the All Star resorts and cite "renovations" during peak times of the year. There is always a renovations project going on somewhere.

You are acting like they're suddenly closing ROTR or dropping their hammers and wrenches on Tron. This is just a single dinner show, a meal which served a couple hundred people a night. On its own it's completely meaningless to the scope of operations, considering it has been closed for years.

Edit: and one more thought - this value you speak of, for some people it goes down because they wanted to go to a luau while at WDW. For others, it goes up because they will have another place to spend DVC points. This isn't just a clear reduction, it's a trade-off.

That show, made a TON of money for the resort. Number 2, behind Hoop.

Care to quantify that with ACTUAL NUMBERS, especially against what hotels and DVC's make for the resort? If not, being the number 2 dinner show might not mean as much as you think. Disney would not turn down a solid revenue stream unless it was being replaced with something even better. We know this is a fact even if we don't know the numbers involved.

 

[Bocabear]

I don't have an overall problem with them building a Polynesian tower... My big problem comes from the style of the new building...Not evoking the Polynesian spirit but more like any modern resort hotel in any location in the world... It is losing what makes WDW special.
So far I have seen nothing that feels like the Poly... Could they add a high raked Polynesian hip roof to the plain tower to make it feel more appropriate? More detailing, more garden-centric like the old Poly was? Torches, waterways, waterfalls, natural materials, Lava rock...
When they built the GF tower they at least copied the rooflines to make it look like it fit with the overall resort... Modern with natural accents is not the same as a Polynesian/ South Pacific style influence

 

[Thelazer]

Value isn't an accumulation of everything on prem you would never do. If they close a golf course or even shut down whole resort you would never go to, your value in going to WDW doesn't go down.

But how do you know you would NEVER do that, maybe folks who come back in a few years decide to try something new?

Value is defined by all the "Possibilities" of things you COULD do, not that you have to do them all.

 

[jasminethecat]

But how do you know you would NEVER do that, maybe folks who come back in a few years decide to try something new?

Value is defined by all the "Possibilities" of things you COULD do, not that you have to do them all.

That's a really twisted way to view value. Something you don't want to do now, but you may want to do sometime later? If I don't play golf and disney closes one of their courses today, should i be upset because i may play golf in the future and i may want to play while at disney? Did that closure really decrease my vacation value right now? The answer is no, it has no affect on my current value.

The actual value in a vacation are the experiences in the moment, souvenirs and lasting memories when compared to the cost. That's it. Value now does not include what you might do later on.

You should consider replying to the part which I addressed to your "TONS of money" comment if you have one.

 

[Thelazer]

The actual value in a vacation are the experiences in the moment, souvenirs and lasting memories when compared to the cost.

So, your point is because it has no value to YOUR moment RIGHT NOW, it's of no value to anyone else, thus dump it..

 

[TikibirdLand]

So, what's the value of strolling through the grounds on that side of the resort -- even when the luau is closed? I realize there's no money in D's pocket for that experience. But, it's one thing that made the Poly special for us. That quietness allowed ducks to poke themselves through the patio fence for my kids to discover, feed, and name. The memories that they're throwing away at this resort is tragic. Hope someone captures that walk on video before that building goes up.

At least the high rises at Waikiki have the beaches to go to.

 

[jasminethecat]

So, your point is because it has no value to YOUR moment RIGHT NOW, it's of no value to anyone else, thus dump it..

I already know you work for the company, no need to discuss revenue's when you can look that up.

Congrats! Every word of what you said is completely wrong. You're reading into what I am saying really poorly and making bad conclusions.

1. I said that disney is trading off the value of a dinner show for the value of dvc rental units. That was in bold. You said that it currently has value because you might possibly want to go someday, but not today. I then said that there is no value to your vacation right now in having something that you specifically have no plans on using. I gave an example of that with golf courses. Your implication is that literally everything at disney has some level of future-enjoyment value and I must disagree with that. Here is another example, hopefully you read this one - if disney closed Scoops Ice Cream on the boardwalk and you had never intended on going because you like other ice cream already in the parks or other resorts, would closing that cause you a loss in value today? Would it matter if they replaced it with a dockside bar with frozen alcoholic and kids drinks? Would that still be a loss of value for you? For everyone?

2. I don't work for Disney, I just get upset at ridiculous arguments which pretend that feelings equal facts. If you want to say that disney doesn't need more DVC's that's ok, but you implied that building DVC's next to a campground is exactly the same as building it at the polynesian. Those are 2 very different things and I gave lots of reasons why it might make sense to put the DVC tower next to an existing hotel. You conveniently ignored all of those reasons because it didn't match up to your feelings that it was a hotel on top of a hotel, period. You spoke like a parent scolding a child because you didn't like the fact that @CaptainAmerica had disagreed with you.

3. I cannot stress this enough - I cannot look up the revenue or profit of a specific restaurant at Disney. Disney would never share data like that. If it is so easy for you to look up, I look forward to a link in your next reply. Or you should stop making things up. Oh wait, i just realized that perhaps you thought that since I work for disney, I can look it up myself? If that's the case, you're still wrong. I am sure that only a handful of disney employees can look up things like that. What are the odds that I would have access to this type of financials data and yet I am asking randoms on a disney forum to prove something I already know? I will answer that - if 330 people in the USA had access to this data, then I would have to be one in a million (considering Americans only). I am not that special.

Sadly, you keep ignoring the bigger picture items I am saying, and you're totally missing my point here. I recommend slowing down and re-reading everything I have said on this, and please take my words literally. I choose them carefully for a reason. If you stop reading after a single phrase upsets you, you will miss out on what I believe to be some decent counter-points.

So, what's the value of strolling through the grounds on that side of the resort -- even when the luau is closed? I realize there's no money in D's pocket for that experience. But, it's one thing that made the Poly special for us. That quietness allowed ducks to poke themselves through the patio fence for my kids to discover, feed, and name. The memories that they're throwing away at this resort is tragic. Hope someone captures that walk on video before that building goes up.

At least the high rises at Waikiki have the beaches to go to.

If your argument against replacing a dinner show with a DVC rental unit is "ducks", then I think you're missing the point of this thread in a completely fun, new way. Nobody asked what is the value of walking around any of the resorts near attractions you aren't actually visiting and have been closed for years. Your family found value in doing just that, which is a cool story. Have you considered that there may still be ducks after they build this and you can still walk around the grounds of the polynesian even if they look a little different? Disney didn't put ducks there, they don't advertise ducks as an attraction. There is no guarantee that ducks will continue to live there regardless of this. The ducks may move 1000 feet down the way to an inaccessible area. Or not. Ducks are incredibly resilient, and they don't rely on interactions with your family for their existence. They may migrate one lake over and sit by the campgrounds, or just move over by the grand floridian, giving hours of free entertainment and memories to people over there. Is their pleasure worth less than your own enjoyment?

You should be ashamed for being so selfish of the free-range ducks and ducklings at WDW. They belong to the world.

 

[Thelazer]

then said that there is no value to your vacation right now in having something that you specifically have no plans on using. I gave an example of that with golf courses. Your implication is that literally everything at disney has some level of future-enjoyment value and I must disagree with that.

Then remove EVERYTHING at Disney, expect the one ride you enjoy most.... tell me, is that one ride left worth going for?

It's not, but the possibility's of discovering all those other "things" you didn't know existed is and that's why they are there.

 

[TikibirdLand]

You should be ashamed for being so selfish of the free-range ducks and ducklings at WDW. They belong to the world.

I keep forgetting to specify -- in detail -- what the story is trying to convey. Do you really think there will be ducks (or any wildlife at all) roaming the grounds with all the traffic coming in and out of that building? How much of the vegetation will be razed to build that building? If the ambience of the resort is ruined because you want to add more capacity for people to enjoy it, are you really making things better?

They took all the trees put 'em in a tree museum
And they charged the people a dollar an'a half just to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise, put up a parking lot -- Joni Mitchell

 

[jasminethecat]

Then remove EVERYTHING at Disney, expect the one ride you enjoy most.... tell me, is that one ride left worth going for?

It's not, but the possibility's of discovering all those other "things" you didn't know existed is and that's why they are there.

You apparently don't read or understand what I am saying at all. You're somehow comparing the replacement of one thing you never used, with the outright removal of everything at WDW except one thing? What the heck kind of comparison is that? I guess if you actually booked a vacation at WDW and only went in to ride one ride and then left, then that might make sense? My head hurts now.

Regarding the luau, Disney said "sorry but we're building condos" and you cannot handle it. I tried explaining why it's not the end of the world (or why it might make sense to them and to other customers) but you refuse to have an intelligent discussion on the matter. I feel sorry for anyone in your personal life who has to interact with you on a daily basis.

 

[TikibirdLand]

I tried explaining why it's not the end of the world (or why it might make sense to them and to other customers) but you refuse to have an intelligent discussion on the matter. I feel sorry for anyone in your personal life who has to interact with you on a daily basis.

NONE of the stuff discussed on these boards are end of the world. I certainly hope others are on that same page. If not, they'll enlighten me. I think those that see this as a loss think it's sad. But, you are dismissing that viewpoint completely in favor of yours. Some things are more special to others. It's not wrong. Just like your opinion is not wrong either.

 

[jasminethecat]

I keep forgetting to specify -- in detail -- what the story is trying to convey. Do you really think there will be ducks (or any wildlife at all) roaming the grounds with all the traffic coming in and out of that building? How much of the vegetation will be razed to build that building? If the ambience of the resort is ruined because you want to add more capacity for people to enjoy it, are you really making things better?

They took all the trees put 'em in a tree museum
And they charged the people a dollar an'a half just to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise, put up a parking lot -- Joni Mitchell

They're making the resort better for the other people who stay there and spend money, at the expense of some families who enjoyed the undisturbed natural area of a shut-down resort area. If your kid had been bit by a snake because you walked into an undisturbed area, you would have a different reaction.

Any change disney could possibly make will have trade-offs. You're absolutely sure that ducks won't be able to exist in this terrible new area because of song lyrics, but in reality they might just make more natural areas for ducks or other wildlife. It certainly won't be 100% paved, the polynesian already has a parking lot where they charge each car by the day.

 

[Thelazer]

They're making the resort better for the other people who stay there and spend money, at the expense of some families who enjoyed the undisturbed natural area of a shut-down resort area.

There you go again, you state this as if it's fact. Who says it's going to be better.
I say it could be worse. More generic over priced DVC rooms to crowd out those undesirable day guests.

It's your opinion that the resort is going to be made better. It may well not be.

 

[montyz81]

You should dig deeper into the overall decision. I get that you and others here are upset that they're building more rooms in the space of a dinner attraction, but this is prime real estate, and Disney is going to do whatever they want with their own property. Disney likely has been polling new and old DVC members and found out that being monorail/lakeside and directly facing the MK will bring in more $$$ than fixing up an aloha dinner show or building the DVC tower in a less desirable location. The poly resort has an established footprint with easy parking, great restaurants, monorail transportation, and a beloved and fun theme. What does the lakeside lodge have going for it? A nice view of trees and a lake. It's next to a campground and will be a huge pain in the butt for buses and any travel other than taking a boat to WDW. You literally have to share a road with RV's the whole way in and out. Terrible travel design and nothing alike with the polynesian

I'm pretty sure the Lakeside resort would have its own entrance more connected to the Wilderness Lodge rather than the campsites. Also, if the last few buildings built by Disney are any indication (Riviera, The new Corranado Resort building, Dolphin Reserve), the theming will be just enough to connect it to the resort, which is to say not as much as the current Polynesian Resort is themed.

Honestly, building a new value resort in that space makes the most sense, with theming from an IP like Pixar, Marvel or StarWars. Value hotel go-ers will not mind the significant drawbacks of the "reflections" location if the hotel looks cool and it's cheap.

1 - More IP theming is not needed
2 - What significant drawbacks are you speaking of?
3 - I am pretty sure the folks who bought into the cabins at Fort Wilderness Lodge would disagree with the disadvantages of being on that lake.

Or they could build some other dinner show or outside entertainment attraction in that space.

I could get my arms around them doing that. At least they aren't (sort of) devaluing a stay as much.

My whole point is that just about every project that has come up in recent years feels like money grabs. This one is no different. The serenity that is the Polynesian Resort will feel as serene as standing in Time Square. They have 27k acres; why do they need to crame everything in. Build out unique and efficient transportation to connect to resorts and experience across all 27k acres and the company will still grab the money, but it will be less noticeable. And they will keep entertainment that people genuinely like, as long as they continuously improve them.

 

[jasminethecat]

NONE of the stuff discussed on these boards are end of the world. I certainly hope others are on that same page. If not, they'll enlighten me. I think those that see this as a loss think it's sad. But, you are dismissing that viewpoint completely in favor of yours. Some things are more special to others. It's not wrong. Just like your opinion is not wrong either.

I am sorry because I spoke in hyperbole in the same way that I previously accused @Thelazer of in that one phrase. It made the sentence more inflammatory than it should have been, so I do apologize for that choice of phrasing. I do try to be careful in my phrasing and I should have done better.

That said, do you actually see what I just did there? I read what you said, then re-read what I had written and I acknowledged a mistake you pointed out.

Was I not directly acknowledging the viewpoints of @Thelazer in my earlier posts? I believe that I was, and I offered counter-arguments as well as examples backing up what I had said. Later on @Thelazer made multiple baseless assumptions based on my writing, each more incorrect than the last. I am not sure why you're not upset at that - if you read what I said and their replies, clearly they didn't even try to understand what I was saying.

You did try to understand what I wrote to you, even if you're still convinced in only one possible outcome (that all ducks will leave the polynesian and the entire area will become unsightly). I am not sure why you settled on this one outcome, if your family enjoyed the rest of the polynesian resort why would you think Disney would suddenly make a new area not in keeping with the rest of the resort? There is no evidence to support any conclusion other than changes will be coming and construction will likely force ducks to at least temporarily move to another area.

I invite you to consider two possibilities: If the ducks were coming into the area only because it was unsettled, then your interactions with them were upsetting to the ducks even if you enjoyed them. If the ducks were coming into the area to be around people (and possibly to eat food scraps), then they should come back after construction is complete.

 

[jasminethecat]

I'm pretty sure the Lakeside resort would have its own entrance more connected to the Wilderness Lodge rather than the campsites. Also, if the last few buildings built by Disney are any indication (Riviera, The new Corranado Resort building, Dolphin Reserve), the theming will be just enough to connect it to the resort, which is to say not as much as the current Polynesian Resort is themed.

1 - More IP theming is not needed
2 - What significant drawbacks are you speaking of?
3 - I am pretty sure the folks who bought into the cabins at Fort Wilderness Lodge would disagree with the disadvantages of being on that lake.

I could get my arms around them doing that. At least they aren't (sort of) devaluing a stay as much.

My whole point is that just about every project that has come up in recent years feels like money grabs. This one is no different. The serenity that is the Polynesian Resort will feel as serene as standing in Time Square. They have 27k acres; why do they need to crame everything in. Build out unique and efficient transportation to connect to resorts and experience across all 27k acres and the company will still grab the money, but it will be less noticeable. And they will keep entertainment that people genuinely like, as long as they continuously improve them.

I already stated the benefits of having more DVC in an established monorail resort. The drawbacks to being lakeside was the location and transportation, along with not being on the monorail. Disney is trying to save $$$ and give people what they want, and that's more resorts on the monorail and skyliner. Not tucked behind a campground.

Was there something written about a separate entrance ever?

 

[montyz81]

I already stated the benefits of having more DVC in an established monorail resort. The drawbacks to being lakeside was the location and transportation, along with not being on the monorail. Disney is trying to save $$$ and give people what they want, and that's more resorts on the monorail and skyliner. Not tucked behind a campground.

Was there something written about a separate entrance ever?

But yet, they are also taking away experiences that people want. Soon we will stay on property and all transportation will connect to Universal because nothing is left in the parks (Epcot, I'm looking at you).
BTW, the benefits are primarily in Disney's favor, if not wholly.

 

[larryz]

Looks like what TWDC called this place back in the '70's is finally coming true.

Everybody's getting a resort complex.

 

[correcaminos]

I keep forgetting to specify -- in detail -- what the story is trying to convey. Do you really think there will be ducks (or any wildlife at all) roaming the grounds with all the traffic coming in and out of that building? How much of the vegetation will be razed to build that building? If the ambience of the resort is ruined because you want to add more capacity for people to enjoy it, are you really making things better?

They took all the trees put 'em in a tree museum
And they charged the people a dollar an'a half just to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise, put up a parking lot -- Joni Mitchell

Yes. Us coming and going out of Moorea with lots of ferry horns didn’t scare them off last week. Not sure why you keep harping on the ducks. With all the music an MK and TTC noise it's not that tranquil. This building is off away from the GCH. You’ll be able to ignore it mostly if you want.

I'm personally thrilled by this announcement. It should've been done in 2015.

 

[TikibirdLand]

Yes. Us coming and going out of Moorea with lots of ferry horns didn’t scare them off last week. Not sure why you keep harping on the ducks. With all the music an MK and TTC noise it's not that tranquil. This building is off away from the GCH. You’ll be able to ignore it mostly if you want.

I'm personally thrilled by this announcement. It should've been done in 2015.

Not harping on the ducks. I'm harping on D tearing at the heart of the Poly. We can't have an area that's a peaceful walk without monetization? The Monorail resorts will be majority DVC. I don't see that as a good thing. Glad you're going to enjoy it.