Disney's problem with 2D Animation

[Matt_Black]

And yet "Frozen" becomes the highest-grossing animated film of all time. Go figure.

Yes, BUT there had already been precedent set with Wreck-It Ralph and other films LIKE those of that 99-06 period. DURING that era, it was very much new ground in a lot of ways. Certainly, every film of the Disney Renaissance had romance as, if not the main plot, then certainly a prominent subplot (Mulan).

You'll notice that a lot of what they're doing now is building off of what they experimented with during that "Dark" period.

 

[imagineer boy]

I honestly think the problem is more with the general public than the studios.

The studios are going to give the public what they want. People have gotten use to seeing Pixar style animation and that it what the average Joe comes to expect when they go to see an animated movie. Anything less than that and it comes off as cheep or old fashioned to someone without a lot of appreciation for the medium.

I think the trick is to simply find a way to reinvent the medium so it doesn't come across as old fashioned. For example, I really wish they had experimented more with the 3 dimensional painted background that were prominent in Tarzan. That has so much potential and was used only sparingly in the post Tarzan movies.

 

[imagineer boy]

One other thing I have to ask, if people think 2-D animation is cheap and old fashioned, then why do people continue to watch the Disney classics in droves on DVD?

 

[Master Yoda]

One other thing I have to ask, if people think 2-D animation is cheap and old fashioned, then why do people continue to watch the Disney classics in droves on DVD?

Because they are classics.

 

[imagineer boy]

Because they are classics.

So? They're done in that old fashioned, cheap hand drawn style which has no resonance today so why would people even bother with them if all they'll accept is CGI?

 

[Master Yoda]

So? They're done in that old fashioned, cheap hand drawn style which has no resonance today so why would people even bother with them if all they'll accept is CGI?

The same reason people watch a select group of old black and white movies, silent films ,etc, but for ever Doctor Zhivago or Cinderella that will live forever, there are thousands of other films that don't warrant dealing with an old medium.

I think the disconnect here is you have an appreciation for the medium regardless of its age. Your average movie goer has no such appreciation. Far too many look at 2D animation like these kids look at on old GameBoy. It is fine for some nostalgia, but that is about it.

 

[Brer Panther]

Perhaps the reason as to why people lost interest in hand-drawn animation is because movie studios stopped using it. Hasn't Disney ever thought of that?

 

[imagineer boy]

Perhaps the reason as to why people lost interest in hand-drawn animation is because movie studios stopped using it. Hasn't Disney ever thought of that?

The same reason people watch a select group of old black and white movies, silent films ,etc, but for ever Doctor Zhivago or Cinderella that will live forever, there are thousands of other films that don't warrant dealing with an old medium.

I think the disconnect here is you have an appreciation for the medium regardless of its age. Your average movie goer has no such appreciation. Far too many look at 2D animation like these kids look at on old GameBoy. It is fine for some nostalgia, but that is about it.

There's difference between changes in technology and mediums. Silent and black and white films are not mediums. 2-d animation is. Same with stop motion.

Perhaps the reason as to why people lost interest in hand-drawn animation is because movie studios stopped using it. Hasn't Disney ever thought of that?

True. Not to mention the last few released were simply not very good. Heck, PatF while good, was unfortunately not great.

 

[Brer Panther]

I thought the 2011 Pooh movie was a million times better than Frozen, for the record.

And, you know, there's also the whole "release date" thing. Your film is up against Harry Potter, how much money do you EXPECT it to make?

 

[ShoalFox]

After some quick research I've found that: in 2001 Atlantis was competing against the likes of Shrek and The Fast and the Furious; in 2002 (leaving out L&S because that was successful) Treasure Planet had to compete against Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets and The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers; and in 2003 Brother Bear competed against The Matrix Revolutions and The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. So all of the (IMO) good 2D Disney films from that era (excepting L&S) competed with some very big films at the box office. Of course, Disney couldn't possibly predict some of these would be huge blockbusters, but they should've caught on with The Lord of the Rings franchise to NOT release anything close to one of those movies.

 

[Brer Panther]

You'd think Disney would have remembered what happened the last time they had a hand-drawn movie up against a Harry Potter film when they chose a release date for the 2011 Pooh movie.
Whoever chose that date may just be even dumber than we thought.

At the risk of changing the subject, what's up with studios like Disney and DreamWorks rarely if ever using actual voice actors in their movies? They could have gotten Grey "Frankie Foster" DeLisle to voice Elsa for half the cost. Did they think Pooh bombed because there were only two celebrities (John Cleese and Craig Ferguson) in addition to the animation style?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Toy Story 3 cost north of $200 million.

It also probably had the most expensive voice cast of all time.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So? They're done in that old fashioned, cheap hand drawn style which has no resonance today so why would people even bother with them if all they'll accept is CGI?

It would be awesome to own an original Ford Model T. But you sure as heck wouldn't buy a 2015 vehicle with the specs of a Model T.

 

[Tony Perkis]

It also probably had the most expensive voice cast of all time.

Up cost $175m. Toy Story 3 cost $200m. Monsters University cost $200m (estimated). Cars 2 cost $200m. Brave cost $185m. Wall-E cost $185m. Ratatouille cost $150m.

The technology is expensive. You can't blame the voice acting solely for the heightened costs.

 

[Matt_Black]

At the risk of changing the subject, what's up with studios like Disney and DreamWorks rarely if ever using actual voice actors in their movies? They could have gotten Grey "Frankie Foster" DeLisle to voice Elsa for half the cost. Did they think Pooh bombed because there were only two celebrities (John Cleese and Craig Ferguson) in addition to the animation style?

First, Idina Menzel has done voice acting before; she was in an episode of Hercules The Animated Series, for instance.

Second, they use a lot of regular voice actors. Ignoring for the moment Jim Cummings and Frank Welker, whose versatility puts them in a lot of films, recent Disney films have included such veterans voice actors as Keith David, Nicole Sullivan, Brad Garrett, Tom Kenney, Ron Perlman, and Maurice LaMarche, among others.

 

[xdan0920]

All of you are wrong! It comes down to time and money. It's takes twice as long to produce and finish a 2d hand drawn film over a cgi film, and it takes more people to make, which means more money spent. If you ran an animation company, from a business standpoint, which looks better on the books; 20+ people drawing 2 minutes of art over the course of a week, or half The amount of people doing it in a matter of days on a computer...

As has been stated, CGI is exceptionally expensive. Cost is not the issue here.

I thought the 2011 Pooh movie was a million times better than Frozen, for the record.

And, you know, there's also the whole "release date" thing. Your film is up against Harry Potter, how much money do you EXPECT it to make?

Pooh was not better then Frozen by any objective measure. Sure, if you love Pooh, and love nostalgia, it might be better to YOU. But in general Frozen blows it away.

Also, Pooh is never a huge box office draw.
Tigger Movie 45 million
Piglet Movie 23 million
Poohs Heffalump movie 18 million

 

[Matt_Black]

As has been stated, CGI is exceptionally expensive. Cost is not the issue here.



Pooh was not better then Frozen by any objective measure. Sure, if you love Pooh, and love nostalgia, it might be better to YOU. But in general Frozen blows it away.

Also, Pooh is never a huge box office draw.
Tigger Movie 45 million
Piglet Movie 23 million
Poohs Heffalump movie 18 million

To be fair, those were all produced by DisneyToon Studios and not WDAS and I'm betting marketing reflected that.

Anyway, Pooh '11 is what I'd call a "cute" movie. If we considering Chicken Little the new millenium's Black Cauldron (both being considered low points), MtR and Bolt the rebuild films like Great Mouse Detective and Oliver & Company, and everything after that a new Disney Renaissance, then Pooh is definitely the Rescuers Down Under. Good, and in someways vastly improved over it's predecessor, it still doesn't compare to the films it's released between.

 

[imagineer boy]

It would be awesome to own an original Ford Model T. But you sure as heck wouldn't buy a 2015 vehicle with the specs of a Model T.

Read my post above where I said hand drawn is simply another medium, not an outdated technology.

Heck, note how there are plenty of stop motion films out there like Coraline that have done well for themselves in recent years. So it's not all CGI dominated.

 

[Jahona]

At one point Brad Graeber, of Powerhouse Animation, had an interesting blog article with an interactive graph that detailed the cost of Animated feature films from Snow White to the mid 2000s. Here is the blog article but it looks like the graph is broken. http://captaincapitalism.com/blog/2008/11/animation-budget-history.html

As for the move from 2D animation to 3D, It's a market switch. 2D for feature films is viewed as a novelty by current audiences. While 2D is still alive with children's television, it's not the beautiful animation that was honed by Disney artists over the past century.

To my knowledge there isn't a current major studio with plans on making a traditional 2D animation. You are more likely going to see 3D styled and rendered to look like 2D before a hand animated feature film.

And I leave you with this in closing

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And, you know, there's also the whole "release date" thing. Your film is up against Harry Potter, how much money do you EXPECT it to make?

Pooh and Potter aren't exactly the same audience.