No they can't. Six Flags owns the rights for all of the US. It is just a pipe dream of Universal fans that they will ever get the rights to DC characters. It will never happen because Six Flags pays more than Universal ever will.
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Disney's Next Acquisition Speculation / Discussion
- Thread starter Darkprime
- Start date
Twilight_Roxas
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but there’s no Six Flags in Orlando so it’s similar to the Universal having Marvel & The Simpsons in their parks, and Disney couldn’t use them except outside the specific state, and country.
It is unlikely that Apple will buy Sony Pictures anytime in the near future because Bob Iger would have known it's interest and would have agreed to a simple extension. The current deal benefited Sony more than Disney but if Disney knew that Spiderman was coming home due to a Sony sale continuing to develop Spiderman in the MCU would have been a no brainier because they would end up with all the money.
Hmmm now what is going on here I wonder...
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www.theverge.com
www.androidauthority.com
Sony is reportedly looking to sell its PlayStation Vue streaming service
Sources claim the service is losing money, despite price increases.
www.theverge.com
Pressure is on for Sony to drop failing divisions, could include mobile (Update: Mobile performing poorly)
According to a report from Reuters, there are pressures from inside and out for Sony to exit the smartphone industry, in which the company is struggling.
www.androidauthority.com
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AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Well-Known Member
Interestingly enough Hulu could be a good entity to acquire Vue.
They could use a boost in Live TV subscribers (Hulu is at 1MM while Vue is at 500,000). They could also integrate the tech in Hulu which will undoubtedly go through a major change. Finally they could add up a whole lot of debt to Hulu which will keep the valuation somewhat down when the put/call comes in 2024. Comcast would also either have to fork up some of the cash now or lose equity. And I'm sure Disney would ask for Spider-man and marvel rights that Sony owns to be bundled in lol
They could use a boost in Live TV subscribers (Hulu is at 1MM while Vue is at 500,000). They could also integrate the tech in Hulu which will undoubtedly go through a major change. Finally they could add up a whole lot of debt to Hulu which will keep the valuation somewhat down when the put/call comes in 2024. Comcast would also either have to fork up some of the cash now or lose equity. And I'm sure Disney would ask for Spider-man and marvel rights that Sony owns to be bundled in lol
Sony could get 5 billion for Spiderman and family rights and movies. Vue is not woth that much, maybe a couple billion. The rumor I heard was Sony wanted 10 billion for Spiderman and Disney wouldn't go past 5 billion. So maybe a deal for both would be 7 to 8 billion. If Sony were to throw in some other old movies without continuing rights to make new movies, just to have them on Disney owned streaming services a 10 billion price for it all could be achieved. If Sony needs money a deal cam be worked out.
Id imagine Iger would have to pitch that kind of deal as basically another acquisition on the same level as Lucasfilm or Pixar. In order to get the board to back paying 5 billion for a single IP. Especially since Disney are in the negative after the Fox purchase. Even though it has over 900 characters they would gain access to. IIRC Iger struggled with 4 billion for Lucasfilm. Because the only valuable IP they had was Star Wars and Indie had been dormant for so long.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Well-Known Member
I agree Vue is not worth that much. It's been around for 4-5 years and only has 500K subscribers. Hulu with Live TV got to 1 million a bit over a year after launching. The rumor you heard was from wegotitcovered which is a very horrible website with a terrible track record. There's another rumor from a guy who supposedly has a good track record saying Disney is looking to purchase the IP from Sony, but the price they are willing to go to is 4-5B.
It would be a lot easier to get the board on board (pun intended) and shareholders to not freak out and dump the stock if they say they'll spend 5-6B to acquire a streaming service with half a million subscribers to be integrated with Hulu Live TV. At the same time they'll get the rights to Spider-man back. It's a lot easier to digest that than "5B for Spider-man movie rights".
As far as old movies are concerned from Sony, I think Disney would only have an interest in the SM movies and TV shows, Ghost Rider movies, and Muppet movies/TV shows that Sony distributes. Maybe MIB since that's a Marvel imprint. Those could all come as a package deal.
The original theory that I had though is that Hulu acquiring Vue (the bundle was in jest, but also possible) would allow Disney to load Hulu up with debt, keeping its value from increasing too much while at the same time either a) Make Comcast pay for 1/3 of it now or b) Have Comcast lose equity in Hulu.
900 characters (probably closer to 1K+ now), but only about 30 or so are worth a damn. And much less than that which can carry their own movie or tv show.
brodie999
Active Member
Yeah, Mikey Sutton thinks they'll get Spider-Man back early next year. They just haven't gave an exact date yet. Besides, Disney extended their deal to keep ESPN on Playstation Vue for a few more years. That's a sign they'd eventually want to buy ALL of Sony.
Disney deal will keep ESPN on PlayStation Vue for years to come
Don't worry about the fate of ESPN channels on PlayStation Vue -- they're not going anywhere. Sony and the Walt Disney Company have struck a "multi-year" deal that will keep delivery Disney-owned channels to Vue, including several ESPN channels, ABC, the Disney Channel and recently acquired Fox...
www.engadget.com
There is no way Disney would ever be allowed to buy all of Sony. I don't understand how they were allowed to buy Fox but the Government gave them the ultimate benefit of doubt and let them gain over 40% control of the domestic box office. The government can't stop them from getting Spiderman and family back to Marvel but that is it. Anything more and they would own over 50% of the domestic box office in a bad year and 2/3 in a good year. That is unacceptable to anyone who cares about competition and the free enterprise system.Yeah, Mikey Sutton thinks they'll get Spider-Man back early next year. They just haven't gave an exact date yet. Besides, Disney extended their deal to keep ESPN on Playstation Vue for a few more years. That's a sign they'd eventually want to buy ALL of Sony.
Disney deal will keep ESPN on PlayStation Vue for years to come
Don't worry about the fate of ESPN channels on PlayStation Vue -- they're not going anywhere. Sony and the Walt Disney Company have struck a "multi-year" deal that will keep delivery Disney-owned channels to Vue, including several ESPN channels, ABC, the Disney Channel and recently acquired Fox...
bartholomr4
Well-Known Member
So far this year, according to box office mojo, there have been 638 movies released. Disney and Fox have combined for 19 of those movies. That is 2% of the total and hardly market dominance. The fact to which people go to watch the 19 movies vs the other 619 has to do with the content and movie experience. Disney isn't doing anything to make these other movies less desirable, or mediocre from a box office perspective. Anti-trust law is about access, and opportunity and predatory behavior. The Anti-trust division of the Justice Department made their decision based on movie count and market access.
Getting Spiderman "back" means getting the remaining "rights" Marvel had licensed to Sony back. Spiderman is an asset on Disney's books. The exclusive rights are the asset on Spiderman's books. There isn't any real Anti-Trust issues with re-acquiring these exclusive rights for an asset which you already own.
The economic model Disney uses to value these "exclusive rights" in an acquisition, is the same Disney used in acquiring Lucas, Marvel and Pixar... The Discounted Cash Flow model is the same, but the resulting value is going to be much lower, because Disney has successfully re-established its rights for a great deal of the Spiderverse, including Product Licensing, Broadway Productions, Short Duration Annimation, etc. Unlike prior acquistions, the movies are the only part of the acquistion which would produce incremental cash flow.
One part of the acquisition model takes a look at what the value of the Spiderverse would be vs other existing "similar" assets. Disney has so many un-used Marvel Assets, which it could leverage the same way. The 4-5 billion dollar price tag would be a huge over-payment.
I think an objective look at the value of the Spiderverse over the next 10 years, also has to assume participation with the MCU and the value this linkage has in the current valuation of the Spiderman character. Venom did well, and may replicate its performance in Venom 2, but if linked to the MCU it is arguable Venom 2 would be a multiplier higher in revenue because of the relationship to the other known characters. Sony knows this and its why they are pushing the Spiderman cameo.
As for purchasing the Vue Streaming subscribers, the cost of integration, and the resulting lower price point Hulu would recieve (there is likely no difference in price they could charge) for those subscribers makes such an acquisition a non-starter. Heck there may be an overlap between the Sony and Hulu subscribers. Disney could put the same revenue into advertising and pushing the Hulu product and get the same subscriber volume and probably a whole lot more. I just don't see an economic rational.
Lastly, if Disney is patient, the rights to the Spiderverse will revert back. Sony will have to make an acquisition or get out of this business to keep it profitable, either one of which could result in a change in control of the exclusive rights. Sony appears to be cash starved and struggling on so many fronts, as the Streaming Wars advance, it will be harder to stay in the race.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Well-Known Member
That's well said on monopoly. Disney has no reason to buy Sony. None, but this is a good summary on monopoly at the BO, that's not even including streaming and tablets that compete with it.
4-5B for SM movie and TV shows rights, even including distribution to previous movies, is a huge overpayment. I have been saying that for awhile. Someone did bring up a good point on another forum though. Sony CAN bring the value of the Spider-man IP down by releasing crap and releasing them often. And that seems the plan from Sony. Venom 2, Morbius, Madam Webb (What?). One theory is they are getting all these productions up to maintain and/or increase the value of the property.
It reminds me of Fox having a lot of projects going for X-Men and FF.and releasing crap after crap for X-Men and the brand suffered a lot from that. My nephew, who is a teenager, thinks X-Men sucks all thanks to Fox. People who are old enough remember how popular the X-Men were in the 90s. Arguably the most popular super heroes. Look at them now. Nevermind FF that Fox completely destroyed a lot quicker. That is something Disney does not want with its most popular Marvel character. Amazing 2 wasn't that long ago and Sony can mess up the character quick. A lot quicker now if they do all the movies/shows they want to do. There's rationale to overspending to get it, however it's not on upside, but to prevent downside.
I also don't see how there could be an overlap between Vue and Hulu Live TV. Maybe Vue with Hulu ads/Hulu+. Hulu Live TV and Vue do the same thing (i.e. live channels like CNN, Fox News, ESPN, etc). No one in their right mind would pay for both. Maybe it's not the best idea to buy Vue, depends on price and a lot of variables, but it's an easy way to increase subscribers for live tv and add debt to Hulu. Furthermore Comcast would have to pay 1/3 or lose equity, either way they get a discount on it.
bartholomr4
Well-Known Member
Sony pulls plug on PlayStation Vue streaming-TV service
Sony is shutting down its pioneering online-cable alternative, PlayStation Vue, citing the high cost of content and the difficulty of reaching deals with...
www.marketwatch.com
The streaming network will be shut down in January.
brodie999
Active Member
I wonder what this means for the future. I bet Sony are getting ready to be bought by another company in the near future, maybe less than next year. It's just like 20th Century Fox all over again.Sony pulls plug on PlayStation Vue streaming-TV service
Sony is shutting down its pioneering online-cable alternative, PlayStation Vue, citing the high cost of content and the difficulty of reaching deals with...
The streaming network will be shut down in January.
bartholomr4
Well-Known Member
It does look like they are polishing their shiny objects.... The company is a Japanese fixture. I doubt it will sell itself. Instead, It will sell off pieces out side its core (electronic) and focus the proceeds on becoming more relevant in that space. We can only hope the film / pictures / television part is sold. Something which will shake the spider-verse free.
Selling off individual pieces would be good for Spider-Man since I believe Disney has first right of refusal in a sale.
bartholomr4
Well-Known Member
There is common belief, and regularly reported in the press, that the license agreement for the Spider-verse would revert back to Disney in the sale of Sony Pictures Entertainment.... I don't know if this is true or ever been verified, but if true, Disney would actually get the Spider-verse back with a change in control for free!
Sony management is not stupid. If they are thinking of selling off their movie business, they would sell Spiderman back to Marvel before announcing the sale of the Studio, if the Spiderman rights were to go back to Disney for free.
bartholomr4
Well-Known Member
That's true.... Disney and Marvel also has savvy management. They know the situation, and would not likely pay very much. Would you?
I have said Disney should buy the Spiderman rights and all of the Marvel library Sony owns for 5 billion. Remember, even if the future rights revert to Disney in a sale, the existing library would still go to the new owner.