Disneyland's Tom Sawyer Island to close (will WDW's follow suit?)

[Chickapin Chick]

I think many people don't realize just how DL's pirates really is on the waterfront with New Orleans Square at Disneyland and it pretty much faces Tom Sawyer Island. It's nothing like WDW's tucked into the fort in Adventureland.

Thematicly, it'd be pretty easy to convert the island at DL into perhaps Tortuga. At WDW, the island is nowhere near Pirates and is surrounded by lands which would clash pretty badly.

You're absolutely right in that Disneyland's Tom Sawyer's Island virtually sits on Pirates' front doorstep (and thank you for pointing that out - it is very relevant to the discussion). However, despite the close proximity, I would argue that Disneyland's Tom Sawyer's Island still feels wonderfully disconnected from New Orleans Square. It is dripping with elements of Frontierland, and even though it is a quick swim from pirate-ville to Tom Sawyer Town, I don't believe a Pirate overlay would work. Not at all. It doesn't belong. Forgive me for not recalling exactly who, but someone here mentioned the absolutely ridiculous image of a grand river boat (named Mark Twain, no less) passing a Pirate Island. As I said, it doesn't belong.

If this happens, I worry that Disney will be crossing that fine line into overkill territory.

And as a person who graduated with a degree in English, I am very upset about the idea of abandoning an attraction that involves American literature. I think that's one of the reasons why I have always loved Disneyland so much - it has that wonderful blend of fantasy, magic, and, of course, history.

Then again, maybe I am overreacting. Us Disney fans do tend to be very protective of our parks, don't we?

 

[socalkdg]

Once they closed down the fort, my love for TSI disappeared. Its half of what it used to be. DL's TSI is not what it used to be. No place to eat, only a few caves to explore and a couple rocks to climb, two bridges, thats it.

I don't see WDW's TSI changing, but a change to DLR's TSI wouldn't be that difficult. You embark near New Orleans Square, and the entrance to Pirates is but a few hundred feet away. Throw in the Columbia and really its only the Mark Twain Riverboat that has any conflict.

If the money spent converts it to the expierience you get at the DCA's Redwood Challange area(best themed area at DCA) or the Boneyard/HoneyIShrunk playground, then why not. Any of these three areas are much better than DLR's TSI.

And as a person who graduated with a degree in English, I am very upset about the idea of abandoning an attraction that involves American literature. I think that's one of the reasons why I have always loved Disneyland so much - it has that wonderful blend of fantasy, magic, and, of course, history.

Then again, maybe I am overreacting. Us Disney fans do tend to be very protective of our parks, don't we?

Then again less and less schools even read this book anymore due to various reasons we won't discuss. And hey, Treasure Island is a great book as well.

 

[culturenthrills]

Then again less and less schools even read this book anymore due to various reasons we won't discuss. And hey, Treasure Island is a great book as well.

As much as it may shock many people but Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn are two of the most commonly banned books from schools. Which is ridiculous to begin with.

As far as TSI at DL I don't know how they will do it without it being totally out of place thematically. Are they going to replace the rafts because those will not make any sense. This is one idea I really hope is shot down by Lasseter or Iger. Maybe they should spend a little money and fix the island. I was there in August and I didn't see any bored kids. I saw many running around and having fun. Fix up the island. If you wanna do a pirates thing then make a Pirates cove part of the island.

As far as WDW goes i don't think our TSI will be changing. POTC is no where near it. If anything they need to build something near POTC because that is a totally dead part of the park. It amazes me that when i went to POTC at DL this summer there was always a line(a fast moving line) but every time i went to MK POTC never had a line. They really need to build something else over there that will keep people over there. I wouldn't have a problem with a giant Pirate Island play area. Something that is heavily themed and real imaginative. The problem with that area is that there is nothing there that keeps people there whereas POTC at DL is at one of the major crossroads of the park.

 

[SGT623]

WDW Pirates had the longest lines I have ever seen last week on my vacation. Looped around outside!

 

[TLS]

WDW needs an attraction like Indianna Jones at DL. It would be cool to have something like that in the Magic Kingdom.

 

[Dizknee_Phreek]

A couple things to keep in mind:

Disneyland, unlike WDW, relies more on local repeat visitors, and so it must continuously find ways to "plus" its existing attractions, something that's not as necessary in Florida. That's why WDW will probably never see Tarzan's Treehouse, Haunted Mansion Holiday, It's a Small World Holiday, a nighttime "rock n roll" Space Mountain, etc. So I highly doubt WDW would consider this same Tom Sawyer-to-Pirate Island makeover.

Also, in Florida, Tom Sawyer Island is completely surrounded by Frontierland (with a small portion across the river from Liberty Square). It would be extremely difficult for Disney to pull off a "Treasure Island" theme in the wilderness setting.

In Disneyland, however, the theming around TSI is a bit different. (For those who've never been there, imagine standing in the 6:00 position on the Rivers of America near WDW's Country Bears. At Disneyland, Frontierland is to your right (in place of WDW's Haunted Mansion), the Deep South-themed Critter Country is to your left (where WDW's Big Thunder sits), and right behind you is the elaborate New Orleans Square)). With some creativity and proper landscaping, I think Imagineers could sucessfully convert Disneyland's Tom Sawyer Island to a sub-tropical, New Orleans swamp-- basically an extension of the Blue Bayou in POTC. Not exactly the "Caribbean", but I think it would work.

I'm sure its probably not financially feasible, but Disney really could use the success of "Pirates of the Caribbean" to revive the old Discovery Island in the middle of WDW's Bay Lake (which, coincidentally, was originally called "Treasure Island") A few years ago there were rumors of converting the island to a "reality game" like Myst. I don't know if that was a true discussion at WDI. But with a couple million dollars, Disney could create some sort of "Jack Sparrow Treasure Hunt" on the island. I'm sure visitors would be willing to spend $30-$40 on such an experience. With the animals now gone, I'm sure it would not cost a ton for Disney to staff the island and run the boats out there again. But with the overgrowth of the island and the amount of vulture droppings now contaminating the washed-out beaches, a Discovery Island conversion is probably out of the question.

I seriously love posts like this. You brought up some extremely logical points here. I, for one, have never been to DL, only WDW, so I only know WDW's layout. I figured DL's was a bit different, but I've never looked into how different. So I thank you for explaining that. Knowing the difference shows just how much more plausible it is for DL to get the refurb, whereas it just wouldn't work (themeing wise, if nothing else) for WDW.

And I actually had the same idea about Discovery Island being turned into a PotC kind of thing. The theme would work perfect there and I'm sure it'd be a big hit with all ages. And it wouldn't make anyone mad for replacing their favorite attraction, cause it's not like it's being used, anyway.

Great post! :wave:

 

[Lewis Carroll]

I had no idea there WAS any confusion..:veryconfu
Skull Rock at DL was of course in Fantasyland.

However, in Disneyland Paris it is in Adventureland, more specifically on Adventure Isle. Were DL to retheme TSI to a version of Adventure Isle I would have no complaint whatsoever.

yea but it's probably going to be Pooh's Playground with palm trees instead.

 

[meanstreak82]

But with the overgrowth of the island and the amount of vulture droppings now contaminating the washed-out beaches, a Discovery Island conversion is probably out of the question.

Not to mention that I've heard from a couple of my colleagues that it's become rat infested. From the looks of it, all of the QSR/restrooms/etc were just abandoned. So if we ever wanted to hold a Halloween event that would make Halloween Horror Nights look like church, I think there's a perfect place for it...

 

[DisneyDellsDude]

WDW needs an attraction like Indianna Jones at DL. It would be cool to have something like that in the Magic Kingdom.

What about Dinosaur over at Animal Kingdom?!!

 

[voodoo321]

What is the reason for the Fort being closed on TSI in DL?

It's open in WDW.

termites!, and/or the fact that a little girl left her finger in a trigger guard after jumping down.

 

[TLS]

What about Dinosaur over at Animal Kingdom?!!

Yeah, after I typed it I realized those two rides are almost identical right down to the ride vehicle!

I still think MK needs a grand slam attraction.

 

[JLW11Hi]

The thing that really kinda ticks me off about this is the fact that Disney's marketing department is coming in and telling Imagineering what to do. Its this sort of thing that leads me to believe that the glory days of Imagineering are long gone.

I agree that Tom Sawyer Island needs a good update. Its a nice attraction, and kids can have fun there, but that Island is taking up a hefty chunk of space at the already space-limited Disneyland, and the attraction is 50 years old. But is this the way to do it? People keep talking about Tom Sawyer as being "old fashioned" and "pirates are in". Ok, yeah. Kids today do enjoy pirates more than classic American literature. But how much longer is the pirates fad going to last? This pirate franchise has been going on for some time now, and to just now start making plans for a huge makeover of an old attraction, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if all the Pirates fans went on to the next fad once this new re-do opens. What if the 3rd movie totally sucks?

With all that said, I do hope that if they go through with this, they give WDI a nice sized budget to make it really cool. Not just some out of place, tacked on pirate theme over the old Island. As for making it fit in with the theming around there, as many have said, the theming is much more "mixed together" at DL because of the lack of space. But they still did it right, so that each theme gradually flows into the next. So that you could still believe that you were moving from the old west into New Orleans into a tropical jungle. If the layout provides, they could keep the present theming of the parts of the island visible from most of Frontierland the same, hiding the tropical pirate stuff on the island. Then they could have the other side, visible from New Orleans Square, tropically themed. Maybe it would look weird...but we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[imagineer boy]

The thing that really kinda ticks me off about this is the fact that Disney's marketing department is coming in and telling Imagineering what to do. Its this sort of thing that leads me to believe that the glory days of Imagineering are long gone.

I agree that Tom Sawyer Island needs a good update. Its a nice attraction, and kids can have fun there, but that Island is taking up a hefty chunk of space at the already space-limited Disneyland, and the attraction is 50 years old. But is this the way to do it? People keep talking about Tom Sawyer as being "old fashioned" and "pirates are in". Ok, yeah. Kids today do enjoy pirates more than classic American literature. But how much longer is the pirates fad going to last? This pirate franchise has been going on for some time now, and to just now start making plans for a huge makeover of an old attraction, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if all the Pirates fans went on to the next fad once this new re-do opens. What if the 3rd movie totally sucks?

With all that said, I do hope that if they go through with this, they give WDI a nice sized budget to make it really cool. Not just some out of place, tacked on pirate theme over the old Island. As for making it fit in with the theming around there, as many have said, the theming is much more "mixed together" at DL because of the lack of space. But they still did it right, so that each theme gradually flows into the next. So that you could still believe that you were moving from the old west into New Orleans into a tropical jungle. If the layout provides, they could keep the present theming of the parts of the island visible from most of Frontierland the same, hiding the tropical pirate stuff on the island. Then they could have the other side, visible from New Orleans Square, tropically themed. Maybe it would look weird...but we'll just have to wait and see.

VERY well said!:sohappy: It really does seem like Disney's Marketing department has taken over everything...

 

[Hakunamatata]

The thing that really kinda ticks me off about this is the fact that Disney's marketing department is coming in and telling Imagineering what to do. Its this sort of thing that leads me to believe that the glory days of Imagineering are long gone.

Maybe I am wrong, and someone who actually has first hand experience in this issue can chime in, but isnt that what Imagineering was created to do? An idea about an attraction or area of the park is created and then given to the imagineers to "make it happen" so to speak. I dont think, and again I could be wrong, that when Walt was creating Disneyland that he said, ok imagineers I have a few city blocks that I want to build a theme park on, so get after it....I believe the general themed lands and basic attraction ideas were laid out and then the Imagineers were tapped to "create the magic".

 

[imagineer boy]

Basically when Walt was in charge, he would give a basic idea of what to do for a certain attraction, and the imagineers would do the rest. Back in the ninties, they were simly told "There is a ton of extra space here, come up with something great to put in it."

 

[Buford]

The thing that really kinda ticks me off about this is the fact that Disney's marketing department is coming in and telling Imagineering what to do. Its this sort of thing that leads me to believe that the glory days of Imagineering are long gone.

meegna na la kweesta?

 

[Dizknee_Phreek]

Not to mention that I've heard from a couple of my colleagues that it's become rat infested. From the looks of it, all of the QSR/restrooms/etc were just abandoned. So if we ever wanted to hold a Halloween event that would make Halloween Horror Nights look like church, I think there's a perfect place for it...

:lol: That'd be awesome...probably not very safe with all the rats, but that just adds to it, right?

termites!, and/or the fact that a little girl left her finger in a trigger guard after jumping down.

Whoa, seriously? I never heard about that...did that actually happen? :veryconfu

 

[Vernonpush]

I don't think that WDW's TSI should be turned into a Pirate Island. It would just be so out of place. If they need to retheme it (to make it marketable etc.), a "Pocahontas Play Park" would fit better between Liberty Square and Frontierland.

 

[Lewis Carroll]

:lol: That'd be awesome...probably not very safe with all the rats, but that just adds to it, right?


Whoa, seriously? I never heard about that...did that actually happen? :veryconfu

yes seriously

 

[TP2000]

So I was at Disneyland today looking at TSI and trying to figure out how they would pull it off. And I really don't think it will be a problem from a design or show standpoint. It's been mentioned before how different the placement of TSI is compared to WDW, and that's a very good point. A pirate makeover to TSI at Disneyland isn't going to clash with the surroundings at all; in fact it would really tie together New Orleans Square, Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion, which all flow from one side to the other.

The problem is how you get this to work with all of the river traffic circling the Island. At WDW there is just one riverboat and two rafts. But at Disneyland they have at least two rafts running (I've seen three on busy days), plus the riverboat, plus the big Sailing Ship Columbia, plus today they had six Canoes out there paddling around. It's the riverboat, the rafts and the fleet of Canoes that worry me. The Sailing Ship Columbia will look fabulous going past Pirate Island since it already looks like a fancy pirate ship.

It's not so much the physical appearance and setting that may cause some problems at Disneyland. From many angles a Pirate Island thing will only enhance the facilities and structures that have been there for 30 or 40 years.

It's the very Frontierland looking vessels that circle the Island on the river that will throw it off as it's set up now. The Mark Twain Riverboat, the rafts and the big fleet of Canoes with Davy Crockett Cast Members in fringed pants and coonskin hats is what will look odd next to a pirate island.

But the existing physical structures on the mainland will only be enhanced from most angles. :sohappy: