DisneylandForward

[Disney Irish]

Right and I’m not sure why he’s glossing over the difference between a 3rd gate opening vs 10 attractions opening on the expansion lots over 25 + years. Kind of an important distinction

I'm not glossing it over and understand the difference between the two, I just don't agree it'll have the same long term impact that you think it will. Short term you may get the boost you're talking about, but once it becomes old news you lose that and then left with nothing to expand on. And I sort of get the feeling Josh looks toward the long term not the short term.

 

[Disney Irish]

This is not going to be decided by Disney based on "what guests favor." It will be made based on what makes the most money.

Oh I agree, and its not decided by us either.

We already know that Disney ruled out a 3rd gate multiple times before and even when it was an option previously, Iger even verbally saying it out loud at one point during a shareholder meeting. So the question is will they do it this time, my opinion is no, but we'll see.

 

[mickEblu]

I'm not glossing it over and understand the difference between the two, I just don't agree it'll have the same long term impact that you think it will. Short term you may get the boost you're talking about, but once it becomes old news you lose that and then left with nothing to expand on. And I sort of get the feeling Josh looks toward the long term not the short term.

Why does a third gate stop them from adding attractions to DL's expansion plots, Tomorrowland makeovers , Fantasyland additions, GE additions and maybe even a land in the Simba lot?

 

[Disney Irish]

Why does a third gate stop them from adding attractions to DL's expansion plots, Tomorrowland makeovers , Fantasyland additions, GE additions and maybe even a land in the Simba lot?

Because they still want to add more hotels and retail, plural not one but multiple, with upwards of 5000+ rooms in total. You think that is all going to go into the Simba lot and still have room left over to add a land with 2-3 attractions?

So if that is not going to go into TSL, that is going to have to go in both expansion slots.

 

[mickEblu]

my opinion is no

If anything confirms the Third Gate it's this ^

 

[mickEblu]

Because they still want to add more hotels and retail, plural not one but multiple, with upwards of 5000+ rooms in total. You think that is all going to go into the Simba lot and still have room left over to add a land with 2-3 attractions?

So if that is not going to go into TSL, that is going to have to go in both expansion slots.

5000 rooms! For those 10 rides and chain restaurants built over 30 years!?

 

[Disney Irish]

If anything confirms the Third Gate is this ^

And when is this confirmation coming? You got a timeline? 5 years? 10?

 

[mickEblu]

And when is this confirmation coming? You got a timeline? 5 years? 10?

don't know but I know its inevitable.

 

[Disney Irish]

5000 rooms! For those 10 rides and restaurant chains over 30 years!?

But wait, you just said there was still more stuff coming with the Tomorrowland makeovers , Fantasyland additions, GE additions, etc. So its not just 10 rides (still believe its more actually). But at least two more hotels and whatever additional retail is what I'm expecting.

So really I think we're just on two sides of the same coin. It just depends on where this future we envision is going. As a 3rd gate in TSL as you think, or as expansion to the existing Parks like I think.

Also while I think even less likely than a 3rd gate in TSL, we haven't even discussed the potential for a 3rd gate going into the cobbled together area of the combined Simba and DLH lots.

 

[Disney Irish]

don't know but I know its inevitable.

Inevitable is a long time, all of us here could be long gone from this plain of existence by the time that inevitability comes if it ever does.

 

[mickEblu]

Inevitable is a long time, all of us here could be long gone from this plain of existence by the time that inevitability comes if it ever does.

Hopefully before I’m a a grandpa. My oldest is 10 for context.

 

[Disney Irish]

Hopefully before I’m a a grandpa. My oldest is 10 for context.

So you got 6-8 years at the earliest.... jk

 

[mickEblu]

Also while I think even less likely than a 3rd gate in TSL, we haven't even discussed the potential for a 3rd gate going into the cobbled together area of the combined Simba and DLH lots.

This would be madness. Really weird layout with hotels looming over you everywhere.

 

[Disney Irish]

This would be madness. Really weird layout with hotels looming over you everywhere.

I mean it wouldn't be the first Disney Park with hotels inside them, both TDS and DLP have their hotels inside the Parks. This would be a unique configuration, but still not the first.

 

[coffeefan]

But wait, you just said there was still more stuff coming with the Tomorrowland makeovers , Fantasyland additions, GE additions, etc. So its not just 10 rides (still believe its more actually). But at least two more hotels and whatever additional retail is what I'm expecting.

So really I think we're just on two sides of the same coin. It just depends on where this future we envision is going. As a 3rd gate in TSL as you think, or as expansion to the existing Parks like I think.

Also while I think even less likely than a 3rd gate in TSL, we haven't even discussed the potential for a 3rd gate going into the cobbled together area of the combined Simba and DLH lots.

But why not have both? Westcot at TSL and DL/DCA expansions at Simba? It's a win-win.

Because they still want to add more hotels and retail, plural not one but multiple, with upwards of 5000+ rooms in total. You think that is all going to go into the Simba lot and still have room left over to add a land with 2-3 attractions?

So if that is not going to go into TSL, that is going to have to go in both expansion slots.

The difference is that it's more essential for a third park to be in close proximity to DLR proper. Hotels can be built anywhere in the surrounding areas.

 

[Disney Irish]

But why not have both? Westcot at TSL and DL/DCA expansions at Simba? It's a win-win.

Hotels and retail district, remember. Disney wants their 5 Diamond hotel, the one they had to cancel when tax incentive got revoked and the original EGW plans got cancelled between 2017 and 2018. It’s still part of their plans.

 

[DLR92]

Different market (no pun intended). WDW is for tourists, Disneyland is for locals, i.e. Los Angeles residents. Los Angelenos aren't going to drive to Anaheim just to go shopping where they have to pay for parking and go through security when they can go to the Americana. The Anaheim Resort District has both Downtown Disney and Garden Walk, neither of which are popular. Why would a third shopping district be the success?

Agreed. LA has The Grove, Century City, Beverly Center for a luxury mall experience (but that seem to be dying). Beverly Hills is next door with Rodeo Drive.

The last thing Southern California needs is another shopping center. Especially a shopping center by the people who brought us DTD. Would I take a Caruso development? Sure. But another Disney shopping center. Absolutely not. They are not anywhere near best in class in that field.

Rick Caruso made only two properties being golden egg to me a shopping experience. The Grove and Americana at Brand. Both experienced of getting luxury retailer into the shopping centers. Especially Americana at Brand. All of his other commercial properties are a complete lackluster. Boring shopping centers.

Downtown Disney suffered so much. Its a complete dud in shopping. But having a good revival with being a place to eat out away from the the parks. Even than not much options or diversity of foods. Not to mention South Coast Plaza isn’t too far either.

I think Garden Walk will have it revival. But as a same fate as Downtown Disney. It will most likely experience new popularity with another eatery mall.

I used to think Disney would build a third park, to then think the logistics isn’t there. But now I do think Disney found a way to potentially make a third park work. Even then I am also thinking will Disney dropped the idea of having gates in Anaheim and charge a single ticket player for Disneyland, DCA, and new flex places around far west and Toy Story Lot.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Inevitable is a long time, all of us here could be long gone from this plain of existence by the time that inevitability comes if it ever does.

I have no idea if it’ll be a third gate or a hotel/shopping district but feel fairly confident in this, I suspect many of us will be gone before whatever they do happens, my guess is DL forward will take 20+ years to happen, I hope I’m still around to see it but even if I am I’ll probably be too old to fully enjoy it.

 

[britain]

In my opinion, the most profitable thing that WDW has that they would love to recreate more of at DL is World Showcase / Illuminations.. er.. Harmo... whatever they're calling it now. It is essentially a beautiful mall that you have to pay to visit, pay to shop at, pay to eat at, and pay to get really good seating for the nightly light extravaganza while you pay for your very expensive drinks.

WITH HARDLY ANY COSTLY-TO-BUILD RIDES.

They have sort of retrofitted DCA into being a place kind of like that (World of Color, Food & Wine Festivals), but it's not optimal. They know DCA has no romance to it. It's easier to add "fun rides" to DCA than to make it an atmospheric place where everyone wants to linger. (They've done their darndest, but it will never be NOS & Rivers of America.)

The Toy Story lot is not much space. They know they can't blow the acreage on a Galaxy's Edge that might not hit the spot. They also know it would be more optimal for them to create urban lands rather than simulate wilderness (a berm of buildings can cut much closer to the edges than a berm of trees).

The OTHER most profitable thing that WDW has which they would love to have more of at DL is pricey hotel / DVC rooms. The old Westcot plan was going to have the shops, restaurants & rides on the main floor or deeper, and all the 2nd floors and up would be hotel rooms. Similar to how the Grand Californian stands on top of Downtown Disney, but more immersively - it would be more like a park full of Club 33s.

A handful of single IP lands would probably eliminate the opportunity to get hotel and park double duty out of the Toy Story Lot. I mean some IPs could do it (Wakanda?) but Arendale won't give you very many hotel rooms, and something like a Lion King land cuts it entirely out of the equation.

Ultimately, I think they'll build something that is a lot like Disney Springs, but with more exotic theming, a "few" rides, but mainly atmospheric places to sell drinks and to do nighttime shows, all underneath disguised resort hotel rooms.

 

[mickEblu]

In my opinion, the most profitable thing that WDW has that they would love to recreate more of at DL is World Showcase / Illuminations.. er.. Harmo... whatever they're calling it now. It is essentially a beautiful mall that you have to pay to visit, pay to shop at, pay to eat at, and pay to get really good seating for the nightly light extravaganza while you pay for your very expensive drinks.

WITH HARDLY ANY COSTLY-TO-BUILD RIDES.

They have sort of retrofitted DCA into being a place kind of like that (World of Color, Food & Wine Festivals), but it's not optimal. They know DCA has no romance to it. It's easier to add "fun rides" to DCA than to make it an atmospheric place everyone wants to linger. (They've done their darndest, but it will never be NOS & Rivers of America.)

The Toy Story lot is not much space. They know they can't blow the acreage on a Galaxy's Edge that might not hit the spot. They also know it would be more optimal for them to create urban lands rather than simulate wilderness (a berm of buildings can cut much closer to the edges than a berm of trees).

The OTHER most profitable thing that WDW has which they would love to have more of at DL is pricey hotel / DVC rooms. The old Westcot plan was going to have the shops, restaurants & rides on the main floor or deeper, and all the 2nd floors and up would be hotel rooms. Similar to how the Grand Californian stands on top of Downtown Disney, but more immersively - it would be more like a park full of Club 33s.

A handful of single IP lands would probably eliminate the opportunity to get hotel and park double duty out of the Toy Story Lot. I mean some IPs could do it (Wakanda?) but Arendale won't give you very many hotel rooms, and something like a Lion King land cuts it entirely out of the equation.

Ultimately, I think they'll build something that is a lot like Disney Springs, but with more exotic theming, a "few" rides, but mainly atmospheric places to sell drinks and to do nighttime shows, all underneath disguised resort hotel rooms.

So essentially you agree with everything I said on my long rant yesterday but not one “like? I see you I see you. Haha

I’ve realized im way too liberal with my “likes.” I’m cutting way back.