DisneylandForward

[BrianLo]

I’m sure there will be something more to it, but I just don’t trust Scott “how you perform at piloting the Falcon will influence what happens to you through the rest of the land” Trowbridge.

In his mild defense, these are fairly well documented features cut by his boss.

Scott is also responsible for Universals Spider-Man, which at the end of the day, Avengers is. I also think Pan is a lot more successful than it’s given credit for at TDS. It’s surprisingly long a d well executed. It was my favourite ride out of the lot, so I remain fairly optimistic on this one.

Pandora Boat Ride > Avengers E ticket > Coco

 

[BrianLo]

I still much prefer Pandora in the Backlot. I think it meaningfully changes DCA as opposed to another ok attraction to sell lightning lanes. Position wise it gives two actual worthwhile lands to hang out in, in opposing corners of the park on the Eastern side. With a little cluster bomb of Marvel attractions in between. It just better sets up DCA as having a stronger Eastern flank than Disneyland likely ever will.

DLF for DCA seems incredibly far off to me. There’s no current consideration for it based on the menu of additions currently going in. Along with the sheer size needed to be achieved to reach Disneyland Hotel’s plaza. We’re more likely to see a little blob added down in Simba with very optimistically a half baked back door entrance for the hotels south of Pixar Pier. Its mainstream esplanade stretch seems a lifetime away.

On the other hand, I foresee a Fantasy Springs like strip from Critter Country to the esplanade within our lifetimes. Not the whole plot, but it’s far easier for them to connect Disneyland with a moderate sized effort. On that note, animated films seem poised for Disneyland’s side. Really, FantasySprings feels like a glimpse into the future. Not the exact franchise or land makeup, of course.

Though in my heart, I think Disneyland is still getting one big kick at the can in the existing borders, as well.

 

[britain]

In his mild defense, these are fairly well documented features cut by his boss.

Scott is also responsible for Universals Spider-Man, which at the end of the day, Avengers is. I also think Pan is a lot more successful than it’s given credit for at TDS. It’s surprisingly long a d well executed. It was my favourite ride out of the lot, so I remain fairly optimistic on this one.

Pandora Boat Ride > Avengers E ticket > Coco

Sure, but in reality even if they had the budget, how were they ever going to pull that off? It was very high on the aspirational concept list, but with hundreds of people theoretically getting off of the falcon and then heading theoretically to the theoretical sit down restaurant, how is every waiter or waitress going to pivot to a different script at every table? You can hand wave and say “magic bands”, but that doesn’t really do it.

I understand blue sky dreaming, but that shouldn’t have made it into the public presentation.

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

I still much prefer Pandora in the Backlot. I think it meaningfully changes DCA as opposed to another ok attraction to sell lightning lanes. Position wise it gives two actual worthwhile lands to hang out in, in opposing corners of the park on the Eastern side. With a little cluster bomb of Marvel attractions in between. It just better sets up DCA as having a stronger Eastern flank than Disneyland likely ever will.

DLF for DCA seems incredibly far off to me. There’s no current consideration for it based on the menu of additions currently going in. Along with the sheer size needed to be achieved to reach Disneyland Hotel’s plaza. We’re more likely to see a little blob added down in Simba with very optimistically a half baked back door entrance for the hotels south of Pixar Pier. Its mainstream esplanade stretch seems a lifetime away.

On the other hand, I foresee a Fantasy Springs like strip from Critter Country to the esplanade within our lifetimes. Not the whole plot, but it’s far easier for them to connect Disneyland with a moderate sized effort. On that note, animated films seem poised for Disneyland’s side. Really, FantasySprings feels like a glimpse into the future. Not the exact franchise or land makeup, of course.

Though in my heart, I think Disneyland is still getting one big kick at the can in the existing borders, as well.

Having Pandora in the backlot would also allow DCA to make a great first impression. As for Simba, the best case scenario would be the first phase of the buildout would be announced at D23 2028 with an opening date of 2031-2032.

 

[BrianLo]

Sure, but in reality even if they had the budget, how were they ever going to pull that off? It was very high on the aspirational concept list, but with hundreds of people theoretically getting off of the falcon and then heading theoretically to the theoretical sit down restaurant, how is every waiter or waitress going to pivot to a different script at every table? You can hand wave and say “magic bands”, but that doesn’t really do it.

I understand blue sky dreaming, but that shouldn’t have made it into the public presentation.

That’s sort of what the hotel did though. As far as ride specific integration, the Super Nintendo Rides track performance well with their magic band equivalent in a mass market situation.

No, probably not as high caliber or cos-play as a controlled setting actor based hotel. But a system where one anecdote is fed to a server wandering around with iPads for food ordering isn’t really complicated to pull off.

Less aspirational and more gimmicky. But, also definitely cut. Though again I’d say, sans role playing, Super Nintendo Land does kind of ironically mostly deliver on what Scott was promising.

 

[BrianLo]

Having Pandora in the backlot would also allow DCA to make a great first impression. As for Simba, the best case scenario would be the first phase of the buildout would be announced at D23 2028 with an opening date of 2031-2032.

I’d be very, very surprised if DCA was felt to need that level of investment so immediately coming off what we are getting.

I know it’s not exactly presented as such, but this is a pretty significant “DCA 2.0-like” level of investment. Disneyland still seems next in line, if we’re getting anything that early. Which comes down to does Frozen/Tomorrowland shake out first, or actual expansion on the downtown Disney lot.

 

[MistaDee]

I still much prefer Pandora in the Backlot. I think it meaningfully changes DCA as opposed to another ok attraction to sell lightning lanes. Position wise it gives two actual worthwhile lands to hang out in, in opposing corners of the park on the Eastern side. With a little cluster bomb of Marvel attractions in between. It just better sets up DCA as having a stronger Eastern flank than Disneyland likely ever will.

Totally agree - gives DCA its own "Adventureland" that feels otherworldly, lush and worth spending time in

DLF for DCA seems incredibly far off to me. There’s no current consideration for it based on the menu of additions currently going in. Along with the sheer size needed to be achieved to reach Disneyland Hotel’s plaza. We’re more likely to see a little blob added down in Simba with very optimistically a half baked back door entrance for the hotels south of Pixar Pier. Its mainstream esplanade stretch seems a lifetime away.

How can we conclude there's no consideration for the southern Simba lot (DCA's half)? It seems to me the debate over whether Avatar will go in Hollywood Backlot indicates that the Simba lot is very much under consideration for development.

On the other hand, I foresee a Fantasy Springs like strip from Critter Country to the esplanade within our lifetimes. Not the whole plot, but it’s far easier for them to connect Disneyland with a moderate sized effort. On that note, animated films seem poised for Disneyland’s side. Really, FantasySprings feels like a glimpse into the future. Not the exact franchise or land makeup, of course.

Though in my heart, I think Disneyland is still getting one big kick at the can in the existing borders, as well.

Agree that Fantasy Springs seems destined for Disneyland's DLF space.

Hopefully, the emphasis on new projects for DCA means Disney is getting serious about closing the gap between the two parks. I'm hoping that the next major project for DLR after Avatar will be a New Tomorrowland, and after that the attention will turn back to DCA.

I don't think the difference between developing Disneyland's half of Simba vs DCA's half is significant enough to be the primary factor driving a decision to do one before the other. That decision should be driven by how much each park needs new capacity. I expect that after Avatar and New Tomorrowland it will be DCA that needs new experiences.

Additionally, I think Disney has far more to gain from turning Pixar Place Hotel (cheapest option) into an inside the park hotel compared to the Disneyland Hotel (mid option).

 

[BrianLo]

How can we conclude there's no consideration for the southern Simba lot (DCA's half)? It seems to me the debate over whether Avatar will go in Hollywood Backlot indicates that the Simba lot is very much under consideration for development.

I think we should separate fans debating from Disney debating.

I don't think the difference between developing Disneyland's half of Simba vs DCA's half is significant enough to be the primary factor driving a decision to do one before the other. That decision should be driven by how much each park needs new capacity. I expect that after Avatar and New Tomorrowland it will be DCA that needs new experiences.

Partly it’s that Disneyland forward, if it ever fully happens, will be piecemeal. A strip with an entry plaza is more organic than the very multiphasic approach DCA would need to connect to the esplanade. It’s quite a long way wrapping around the Pixar hotel. The significance of its current investment cycle within exclusively the current boundaries seems to be pushing back such a large investment.

The second thing is that the lack of redevelopment of Star Wars Trading Post and the Disney+ building feels like a purposeful choice to me.

The third is that Disneyland actually operationally would benefit from a secondary entry/exit. I think that is partially informing the need to expand first. Pixar hotel and Grand Cal both already have alternative DCA entrances and the park doesn’t have the same attendance crush. As of now at least.

I also suspect there may be an exit (don’t know about an entry) from Disneyland out to the parking garages. The ability for post-Fantasmic traffic to actually go another direction seems like a big game changer for that parks operations.

I acknowledge I’m just aggressively speculating.

 

[President Loki]

I can see them expanding at the parking lot for the Pixar Hotel, but I don't see them expanding at the main parking lot any time soon. For California Adventure I think a re-name is most likely in order. The name of the park narrows the amount of rides and lands they could add and with Pandora on the way, I think a name is well deserved. I'm not good at naming things but I think "GOLDEN ADVENTURE" would be a good idea. It pays homage to the original name, but keeps the park's horizons open for a lot of different expansions. For this new plot, I think Big City U.S.A. would be interesting. Originally set for Disneyland and where Galaxy's Edge is nowadays. Big City U.S.A. was supposed to capture the feel of large bustling cities such as San Fransisco or New York. There could be a fair section featuring many different flat rides. You could re-use the abandoned Trolley attraction for the land. You would get inside a Street Car and time travel through history, possibly being a new educational attraction. Another attraction could be "The Fireworks Factory" another cancelled project involved in Discovery Bay, this could be a launch coaster. Launching through the factory on a fire cracker, zooming past fireworks and large explosions, possibily being simalar to Rock n Roller Coaster (without the music).

 

[MistaDee]

How can we conclude there's no consideration for the southern Simba lot (DCA's half)? It seems to me the debate over whether Avatar will go in Hollywood Backlot indicates that the Simba lot is very much under consideration for development.

I think we should separate fans debating from Disney debating.

Are we not all just fans debating on forums? It cuts both ways:

Disney hasn't announced officially where Coco or Avatar are going, and while I agree that it would be preferable to have both go into Pixar Pier/Hollywood Backlot, if we're "separating fans debating from Disney debating" then surely it's also premature to conclude that they won't utilize the Simba lot

I don't think the difference between developing Disneyland's half of Simba vs DCA's half is significant enough to be the primary factor driving a decision to do one before the other. That decision should be driven by how much each park needs new capacity. I expect that after Avatar and New Tomorrowland it will be DCA that needs new experiences.

Partly it’s that Disneyland forward, if it ever fully happens, will be piecemeal. A strip with an entry plaza is more organic than the very multiphasic approach DCA would need to connect to the esplanade. It’s quite a long way wrapping around the Pixar hotel.

Disney could choose to develop the plot piecemeal, it certainly seems that would be the easier way to go, but you're assuming that the challenges of developing the southern half outweigh the benefits of leveling DCA up and selling all those sweet new park-view rooms.

It seems to me, and I am clearly no expert, that it would be less difficult/ambitious to develop around the Pixar hotel than it would be to say...completely renovate the main entrance to DCA and wrap the park in construction walls for many years, but they showed they were willing to do so for the DCA 2.0 redevelopment

The significance of its current investment cycle within exclusively the current boundaries seems to be pushing back such a large investment.

That's one way to interpret it - again, I'll point out that Disney has not announced that its investment cycle will occur within the current boundaries, but even if it plays out as us "fans debating things on the internet" expect it to doesn't necessarily mean Disney will then prioritize the DL portion of DLForward.

In fact, if Disney does concentrate this tranche of projects within DCA I might interpret that as an indicator that they see strengthening DCA as the priority which would then seem to be pushing back on larger investments for DL's expansion pad. It's likely Disney would want to evaluate the impact of this round of investment before choosing where to next deploy capital.

The second thing is that the lack of redevelopment of Star Wars Trading Post and the Disney+ building feels like a purposeful choice to me.

The third is that Disneyland actually operationally would benefit from a secondary entry/exit. I think that is partially informing the need to expand first. Pixar hotel and Grand Cal both already have alternative DCA entrances and the park doesn’t have the same attendance crush. As of now at least.

I also suspect there may be an exit (don’t know about an entry) from Disneyland out to the parking garages. The ability for post-Fantasmic traffic to actually go another direction seems like a big game changer for that parks operations.

I acknowledge I’m just aggressively speculating.

This is a really excellent point - if the operational headache of post-Fantasmic crowd surge is a bigger priority than selling park-view rooms and strengthening DCA in terms of capacity and attendance draw then that would be a totally valid reason for Disney to want to develop the northern half of DLF first

My suspicion would be that the internal ROI would be much higher for a project that can allow Pixar hotel to charge premium rates vs a project that solves some operational issues (and might lead to less late night merchandise sales from those captive Fantasmic crowds slowly filtering through Main St)

 

[BrianLo]

Are we not all just fans debating on forums? It cuts both ways:

We are. But it harkens back to looking at the evidence that is presented to us. We had two reliable sources confirm Pandora's placement, Disney subsequently released and reiterated concept art that further aligns Pandora to the Backlot. We've known this for a year at this point and the Pandora project is only 2 years in conceptualization. We know where Avengers is.

I'm not closed minded, things change a lot during the planning phase. To think there is another 3 billion mega project just around the corner, that would need to be more sizeable than Fantasy Springs to connect DCA to the esplanade, is even too optimistic for me! I am usually a very optimistic poster.

I'd like to believe. But I'm just incredibly already satisfied with what they are doing with DCA. So I'll say I'd be completely floored if they are also actively planning to go across the road.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think it should be said that there is nothing preventing Disney from doing multiple projects at one time, other than Disney themselves. So with that said as with everything on the rumor train tracks could have been crossed and rumors merged together.

In other words, Disney could be planning projects for Simba now for a start to DCA expansion in the near future (5 years out) while still planning on having Avatar in the Backlot. And that just all got mashed together into this idea that Disney is now reconsidering Avatar for the Backlot.

 

[Disney Vault]

I can see them expanding at the parking lot for the Pixar Hotel, but I don't see them expanding at the main parking lot any time soon. For California Adventure I think a re-name is most likely in order. The name of the park narrows the amount of rides and lands they could add and with Pandora on the way, I think a name is well deserved. I'm not good at naming things but I think "GOLDEN ADVENTURE" would be a good idea. It pays homage to the original name, but keeps the park's horizons open for a lot of different expansions. For this new plot, I think Big City U.S.A. would be interesting. Originally set for Disneyland and where Galaxy's Edge is nowadays. Big City U.S.A. was supposed to capture the feel of large bustling cities such as San Fransisco or New York. There could be a fair section featuring many different flat rides. You could re-use the abandoned Trolley attraction for the land. You would get inside a Street Car and time travel through history, possibly being a new educational attraction. Another attraction could be "The Fireworks Factory" another cancelled project involved in Discovery Bay, this could be a launch coaster. Launching through the factory on a fire cracker, zooming past fireworks and large explosions, possibily being simalar to Rock n Roller Coaster (without the music).

Is there concept art for this? It's my first time hearing of this concept but I love the idea