DisneylandForward

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
You're right all the usable land will be used up eventually, the question is whether someone wants that now or in 40-50 years. 3rd gate means it gets used up quicker versus expansion which is used up longer term.

Also if we've learned nothing from the changes coming to MK, its that Disney has no issue touching something beloved. So a 3rd gate puts HM or POTC on the potential chopping block sooner in our lifetime rather than far off in the future when we are likely gone.

Yeah I mean that’s logical. I just think in either scenario you still have POTC or HM at damn near a century old. At some point these attractions will be considered untouchable IMO. Enough time will do that. We just haven’t seen it in the theme park space yet because they are still relatively new. POTC being deemed an untouchable landmark seems more likely than it being turned into a Moana ride.
 
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Disney Irish

Premium Member
Yeah I mean that’s logical. I just think in either scenario you still have POTC or HM at damn near a century old. At some point these attractions will be considered untouchable IMO. Enough time will do that. We just haven’t seen it in the theme park space yet because they are still relatively new. That seems more likely than turning it POTC into a Moana ride.
Except the issue with your timeline is the assumption that any changes coming wouldn't be for another 40+ years. However with a 3rd gate that timeline shrinks big time, as all that usable space is eaten up right away, ie changes to DL and DCA would be coming in 15-20 years not 40+.

Also I figure you of all people wouldn't trust that Disney wouldn't gut either POTC or HM for a future attraction, especially if they've run out of space. Expansion saves attractions like POTC and HM to make that 100 year mark that you believe saves them permanently.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Except the issue with your timeline is the assumption that any changes coming wouldn't be for another 40+ years. However with a 3rd gate that timeline shrinks big time, as all that usable space is eaten up right away, ie changes to DL and DCA would be coming in 15-20 years not 40+.

Also I figure you of all people wouldn't trust that Disney wouldn't gut either POTC or HM for a future attraction, especially if they've run out of space.

POTC or HM aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. By the time they get that desperate and out of land they’d already be 80 + years old. They ll retheme the attractions they built in 2025 before they retheme POTC or Mansion. Infinity Defense and the Coco boat ride will be rethemed before POTC or HM.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
POTC or HM aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. By the time they get that desperate and out of land they’d already be 80 + years old. They ll retheme the attractions they built in 2025 before they retheme POTC or Mansion. Infinity Defense and the Coco boat ride will be rethemed before POTC or HM.
Now isn't this a bit of role reversal between us.

I'm glad you're confident on that. I'm not, which is why I think expansion is the better plan for the land usage. Anything else is just asking for a sooner future retheming of beloved attraction.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
If a 3rd gate does get built, you all will be amazed at how quickly Disney can build if they want.

All the expenditures of building a 3rd park is pure expense with no income until the park is open. So, they'll open the park ASAP.

If they're just expanding across the road, they can take their sweet time. The park is open and making a profit while they build at their leisure.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Now isn't this a bit of role reversal between us.

I'm glad you're confident on that. I'm not, which is why I think expansion is the better plan for the land usage. Anything else is just asking for a sooner future retheming of beloved attraction.

I don’t have a lot of faith in Disney right now but I’d like to believe that one day when given the choice between retheming 80+ year old classics built/ designed and thought up by Walt Disney/ WED or Pixar Pier or the Coco ride they built on a budget in 2026 they ll go with the latter.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I don’t have a lot of faith in Disney right now but I’d like to believe that one day when given the choice between retheming 80+ year old classics built/ designed and thought up by Walt Disney/ WED or Pixar Pier or the Coco ride they built on a budget in 2026 they ll go with the latter.
Well you have a lot more faith than I do on future Disney. I mean we'll be a likely another two or more generations of WDI removed and new management by then, so they may not look at the classics as revered as we do.

This doesn't even take into account future generations that may see 80 year old POTC or HM as hokey and outdated. Which would also play into any decision made by future Disney.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Well you have a lot more faith than I do on future Disney. I mean we'll be a likely another two or more generations of WDI removed and new management by then, so they may not look at the classics as revered as we do.

This doesn't even take into account future generations that may see 80 year old POTC or HM as hokey and outdated. Which would also play into any decision made by future Disney.

That’s not really how things work though. The older it gets the more likely it is that it will be respected and protected. Especially when you have a bunch of junk elsewhere across the resort you can retheme. Pirates and Ghosts won’t ever go out of style. Rides based on Specific IP is more likely to go out of style before those broader themes.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
That’s not really how things work though. The older it gets the more likely it is that it will be respected and protected. Especially when you have a bunch of junk elsewhere across the resort you can retheme. Pirates and Ghosts won’t ever go out of style. Rides based on Specific IP is more likely to go out of style before those broader themes.
Is it though? As rides age so do their infrastructures, and parts become harder to find and costly to reproduce. So the willingness to maintain them becomes less and less as it becomes more expensive to fix them with each refurb. So they have two choices in those circumstances, gut and try to update the existing infrastructure to modernize it so its easier to maintain in the future or you retheme/rebuild with something new. Again we've seen what Disney is willing to do over at MK with ROA, so don't know why you put so much faith in this.

But guess time will tell what happens here.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Is it though? As rides age so do their infrastructures, and parts become harder to find and costly to reproduce. So the willingness to maintain them becomes less and less as it becomes more expensive to fix them with each refurb. So they have two choices in those circumstances, gut and try to update the existing infrastructure to modernize it so its easier to maintain in the future or you retheme/rebuild with something new. Again we've seen what Disney is willing to do over at MK with ROA, so don't know why you put so much faith in this.

But guess time will tell what happens here.

Well that’s MK, not Disneyland. Not as old or revered. Doesn’t have the Walt factor. It’s also a huge chunk of land that apparently isn’t even all that respected/ appreciated by a large chunk of people on these boards if you go over and read some of the comments on the WDW side. They seem more concerned about Muppets. That’s crazy to me but 🤷🏻‍♂️. Still scares me of course and think it’s the wrong decision.

You have a point with the infrastructure but outside of something disastrous happening I see them doing everything in their power to keep those attractions alive. I think you probably have at least 10 attractions at Disneyland that would get this sort of special treatment with POTC and HM at the top of the list.
 
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Disney Irish

Premium Member
Well that’s MK, not Disneyland. Not as old or revered. Doesn’t have the Walt factor. It’s also a huge chunk of land that apparently isn’t even all that respected/ appreciated by a large chunk of people on these boards if you go over and read some of the comments on the WDW side. They seem more concerned about Muppets. That’s crazy to me but 🤷🏻‍♂️. Still scares me of course and think it’s the wrong decision.

You have a point with the infrastructure but outside of something disastrous happening I see them doing everything in their power to keep those attractions alive. I think you probably have at least 10 attractions at Disneyland that would get this sort of special treatment with POTC and HM at the top of the list.
We'll have to see what happens in the future. And maybe you're right that that some within the organization view some of those attractions that way. However I just think that as time goes on and more distance from Walt's time accrues you'll have some that view them as expendable, especially if cost of maintenance becomes a factor which I think it will.

Anyways we'll have a long time to debate this I'm sure. :)
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
We'll have to see what happens in the future. And maybe you're right that that some within the organization view some of those attractions that way. However I just think that as time goes on and more distance from Walt's time accrues you'll have some that view them as expendable, especially if cost of maintenance becomes a factor which I think it will.

Anyways we'll have a long time to debate this I'm sure. :)

We’ll see. One day when I’m wearing Depends I’ll know if I was right.
 

Streetway

Well-Known Member
They seem more concerned about Muppets.
In my mind its this: i hate losing ROA, and would much MUCH rather it remain, but ultimatley, at the end of the day, there are still three more rivers at Disney parks around the world (and ngl mk’s is the worst one, but it is still nice to have.) There is only one muppetvision 3D left, and it also has historical significance too.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Lol ok excuse me, one day when I become immortal and live forever I’ll know if I’m right.
Well one thing you have on your side is that as part of DLForward Disneyland was put into a historic district. So they can deem certain attractions as historical landmarks. They already did tag Main St Station, Hungry Bear, and POTC as potential historical landmarks, so there is that. :)
 

Misted Compass

Well-Known Member
Wasn't it mentioned in one of the DLForward meetings that Pirates was deemed a historic landmark? Then again so was Hungry Bear and they're giving that a retheme so I doubt it has any real bearing.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Wasn't it mentioned in one of the DLForward meetings that Pirates was deemed a historic landmark? Then again so was Hungry Bear and they're giving that a retheme so I doubt it has any real bearing.
As part of DLForward it was that Disneyland was put into a historic district. And with that they tagged Main St Station, Hungry Bear, and POTC as potential historical landmarks under the California registry, but they weren't actually added to the list (as far as I know, I checked last night and they weren't on the California registry).
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
In my mind its this: i hate losing ROA, and would much MUCH rather it remain, but ultimatley, at the end of the day, there are still three more rivers at Disney parks around the world (and ngl mk’s is the worst one, but it is still nice to have.) There is only one muppetvision 3D left, and it also has historical significance too.
They've already destroyed Jim Henson's legacy. Now they are just finishing destroying George Lucas's and Walt Disney's legacy. At least Spielberg was smart enough to work with Universal who knows how to preserve such things.
 

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