DisneylandForward

[TP2000]

i really wish you could take a metro subway from LA to Anaheim/DLR god that would make going to/from DL so much better for residents of LA

A metro subway would take longer than the existing Metrolink trains because a subway would be stopping every few miles, adding on an additional 30 or 40 minutes to the trip time. Above ground light rail would stop even more often, and need to deal with stop lights at major intersections.

The current Metrolink trains only stop four times between LA Union Station and Anaheim; at Commerce, Norwalk, Buena Park, and Fullerton. Those trains have a trip time of 44 minutes from LA Union Station to Anaheim ARTIC.

If it was an above ground light rail the same route would likely have 20 more stops and an another hour trip time. If it was an underground subway the same route would likely have 10 more stops and another 30 minutes of trip time.

 

[J4546]

yeah it take a bit longer than driving (although I have been in terrible LA traffic so really it could go either way), but Id be fine with an extra 20-30 minutes of sitting and looking at my phone instead of driving and paying for parking. If it was all connected to Metro and you could pay 2 bucks to ride each way Id be totally down. Esp if the exit/entrance was near an entrance to DLR.

 

[Consumer]

yeah it take a bit longer than driving (although I have been in terrible LA traffic so really it could go either way), but Id be fine with an extra 20-30 minutes of sitting and looking at my phone instead of driving and paying for parking. If it was all connected to Metro and you could pay 2 bucks to ride each way Id be totally down. Esp if the exit/entrance was near an entrance to DLR.

And that's great. And some people would rather drive. Both are great and there's nothing wrong with either. We need more public transit but we don't need to remove cars to do that.

Unfortunately for many it's become suburbs vs density, cars vs public transit when discussing infrastructure when in reality it should be suburbs and density, cars and public transit. These can coexist and they should coexist. I believe people have the right to choose where and how they live and commute, and in order to choose there must be choices.

 

[TP2000]

Here's a problem for our mythical families taking mass transit to Disneyland; the weekend schedules.

For the scenario above I just checked Google for today, and got those times. On weekends, when most locals visit Disneyland, the transit options are much more limited and sparsely scheduled than a weekday. The trip times are almost twice as long on a Saturday as they are on a Tuesday.

Burbank to Disneyland = 3 Hours, 17 Minutes! Leave downtown Burbank at 8:19 and arrive Harbor Blvd. at 11:37am
Mission Viejo to Disneyland = 1 Hour, 40 Minutes. Leave downtown Mission Viejo at 8:24 and arrive Harbor at 10:04am

Going home, it's not much better.

Disneyland to Burbank = 2 Hours, 47 Minutes! Leave Disneyland at 10:00pm, 3 buses and 1 train later, arrive Burbank at 1:03am

For our Mission Viejo family, they would have to leave the park by 7:45pm on Saturday night in order to catch the last bus of the night home.

Disneyland to Mission Viejo = 1 Hour, 23 Minutes. 7:56pm bus departure, transfer in Irvine, arrive downtown Mission Viejo at 9:20pm

 

[TP2000]

If it was all connected to Metro and you could pay 2 bucks to ride each way Id be totally down.

The highly state subsidized train options currently are in the $12 to $16 range each way. Or $24 to $32 round trip, from LA Union Station to Anaheim ARTIC.

Metrolink's OC Line is $12 but is slightly slower and the seats aren't as nice. Amtrak's Surfliner is $16 and is slightly faster with much roomier seats and onboard food/beverage available in the lounge car.

But you are boarding the train at LA Union Station, and somehow getting there to start your trip. And then disembarking the train at Anaheim ARTIC and paying for bus fare or Uber the final two miles down Katella to Disneyland.

There would be no way any rail system could afford to charge $2 each way to travel the 26 miles from Union Station to ARTIC. Unless there was a massive Billion dollar per year government program to provide free train service to Disneyland for some reason. California currently has a budget deficit of $76 Billion this year and will need to cut programs and costs statewide, instead of increasing the already large annual subsidies California spends on rail transit.

It would be wise (and much faster) to have a fuel efficient car, and if you hate driving the freeways, bribe a friend with Starbucks or a Lightning Lane to do the driving for you.

 

[J4546]

well i mean right now you can travel from long beach to rancho cocumonga and thats like 60 miles. Plus they are expanding metro right now in a major way with a massive purple line extension and more. I dont think they will do it cause it coasts so much but if they did it would be a great option for me. Make a new line off the Blue/Long beach line heading east that also hits the stadium, thatd be great for that entire area along katella ave as well for mass transit.

 

[TP2000]

well i mean right now you can travel from long beach to rancho cocumonga and thats like 60 miles.

Yes, you can. And that trip would take you 2 hours and 45 minutes with a transfer at Union Station to travel those 60 miles.

https://www.metro.net/riding/trip-planner/

The LA metro area has a large and sprawling commuter rail system of light rail, streetcars, subways, and heavy rail. But a train that stops every 10 miles best case scenario, or every 10 blocks worst case scenario, will never be as fast as a private car traveling the same distance (barring some apocalyptic full freeway closure that particular day).

Plus they are expanding metro right now in a major way with a massive purple line extension and more.

They are expanding the MTA system, with an eye towards the 2028 Olympics. But there are no current plans for the MTA to every expand south into Orange County. There are not even plans to study a proposal like that.

I dont think they will do it cause it coasts so much but if they did it would be a great option for me. Make a new line off the Blue/Long beach line heading east that also hits the stadium, thatd be great for that entire area along katella ave as well for mass transit.

The issue there is that it's a different county. OCTA has no current plans to study potential light rail routes in that area.

 

[TP2000]

All this transit talk is a good reminder of what has been entirely missing in this latest planning proposal from TDA known as DisneylandForward, and that's mass transit.

Back in 2015-17 before the Eastern Gateway 1.0 project was shelved and the relationship between TDA and Anaheim got very tense, there was open planning and assumptions being made that there would be rail transit from the Eastern Gateway to the stadium and ARTIC.

But Anaheim's plan for a streetcar in the Resort/Convention area linking the Stadium/ARTIC area was cancelled years ago. And nothing I've found in DisneylandForward documents from the city or from TDA even pretend that a streetcar or rail transit system might be involved. It's all private cars, hotel shuttle buses, or Ubers and Lyfts in the DisneylandForward plan.

This seems like a million years ago at this point, doesn't it?...

 

[J4546]

I never said it was quicker just saying that it would be nice if it was an option and also that you can go 50+ miles for 2 bucks. It's slow but still doable with current metro system, I just wish it went to Anaheim as well and was an option.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Just need to chime in and say, as someone from Vancouver with pretty fantastic transit… I was shocked when planning my trip to Universal / Disneyland, that the only real advice to get anywhere from LAX was to… rent a car?! What!

We are most likely just going to Uber to our hotel near Universal, and then take the train to Anaheim.

But it’s wild for such a big city.

 

[J4546]

Just need to chime in and say, as someone from Vancouver with pretty fantastic transit… I was shocked when planning my trip to Universal / Disneyland, that the only real advice to get anywhere from LAX was to… rent a car?! What!

We are most likely just going to Uber to our hotel near Universal, and then take the train to Anaheim.

But it’s wild for such a big city.

yeah our MTA is lacking big time BUT in a year there will be an new MTA station connected to an automated people mover going to/from LAX directly connecting to the MTA subway line as well as a massive new consolidated rental car facility where all car rental companies share a massive building with gas/oil/tires. I feel like that will be a huge win for traffic around LAX. ABout 40 years later than it should be but better late than never....I miss portland, where I could ride the light rail directly to the airport literally a few steps and small staircase from the lightrail to the airport lobby.

 

[mickEblu]

i really wish you could take a metro subway from LA to Anaheim/DLR god that would make going to/from DL so much better for residents of LA

That would just be an extra step and waste of time for me coming from the San Fernando Valley to get off the freeway in LA and park my car. Especially considering that once you’ve gotten to LA you’ve already passed the majority of the traffic.

 

[shambolicdefending]

Just need to chime in and say, as someone from Vancouver with pretty fantastic transit… I was shocked when planning my trip to Universal / Disneyland, that the only real advice to get anywhere from LAX was to… rent a car?! What!

We are most likely just going to Uber to our hotel near Universal, and then take the train to Anaheim.

But it’s wild for such a big city.

Even by US standards, public transportation in greater LA is pretty abysmal. Many cities with far less need have much better infrastructure and options.

 

[CaptinEO]

For a family of four going to Disneyland, it costs less to drive in the family car and generally saves an hour or more off the trip time. Plus it's more comfortable, and the family is in safer surroundings throughout the trip. But Dad has to drive.

Looking at Google, here are the options a family of four would have to either take transit, or drive, to Disneyland. Let's imagine we have two mythical SoCal families, one lives in Burbank and one lives in Mission Viejo. Here are their current transit options and costs with the average price of gas currently at $4.60 per gallon and Disneyland parking $30. Children 17 and under ride free on Metrolink with a paying adult, so the kids only need to buy youth bus tickets in this scenario.

Mass Transit - Metrolink, MTA and/or OCTA
Burbank to Harbor Bus Stop = 2 Hours, 17 minutes (2 trains, 1 bus), $12.25 per adult one-way & $66.50 for 4 round-trip
Mission Viejo to Harbor Bus Stop = 1 Hour, 43 minutes (1 train, 2 buses) $11.25 per adult one-way & $54 for 4 round-trip

Private Car - 2019 Toyota Camry with a combined 30 MPG and gas at $4.60 per gallon
Burbank to Disneyland Parking = 1 Hour, 36 miles, $13 in gas, $30 for parking, $42 for 4 round-trip
Mission Viejo to Disneyland Parking = 45 minutes, 22 miles, $8 in gas, $30 for parking, $37 for 4 round-trip

This doesn't take into account the times for transit would need an extra 15 or 20 minutes tacked on to them in order to walk to the nearest bus stop with a few minutes to spare. The driving times for the Camry assume a driveway to parking spot drive time on a Saturday morning and night with moderate traffic. I added on an extra dollar in gas costs to account for the few miles a family generally needs to drive from their home to a freeway onramp.

Parking is actually 35 dollars now.

 

[smooch]

Assuming the average guest lives in the Valley, that's about a 2 hour train ride. Driving is only about an hour, even with LA traffic. Personally, and I imagine this is the case for many, I would much rather be in the comfort of my own car, going at my own speed, than stuck on public transportation with strangers who probably don't smell good. That's also not to discount the many guests who come from Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and other parts of California. So, unfortunately for you, the car is not going away any time soon.

That all said, I do think Anaheim could greatly benefit from some light rail. Having a light rail system that runs from the ARTIC station down Katella to the Disneyland Resort and Anaheim Convention Center seems like a no brainer. It would certainly help unify the greater Resort District. However, even to speak to your concerns, by doing so guests would be able to park further away in parking lots and garages not on Disney property. This would be cheaper for the guests, more profitable for Anaheim, and could free up Disney's property. Seems to me like a win-win-win (except the part where Disney can't extort its guests for $30+ parking).

As others have correctly pointed out, this traffic and horrific city planning is directly a result of car manufacturers lobbying politicians to plan cities around people having to buy their cars. Give people the options to choose, make it consumer friendly. Imagine if we didn't all NEED to drive an hour to Disneyland, and we properly invested in high speed rail systems across the state / country, you would have the option to sit in your car and drive with less traffic and have a shorter commute, or you get to CHOOSE to take the public transportation to the dense, tourist heavy area, not deal with driving in traffic / parking / etc.

Out of state guests shouldn't require a rental car to get around the state, there should be enough transportation services offered and readily accessible that people can travel to a tourist destination (Disneyland [idc about the locals vs tourist park DLR vs. WDW discussion for this]) from one of the two nearby airports, one of which is an international airport and should have transportation readily available.

Obviously this is just me complaining, I don't expect Anaheim / the United States to suddenly shift their city planning away from such a deeply rooted (by design) part of American culture. Some cities are expanding bike lanes / protections for bikers and pedestrians but there's only so much you can do when the core foundation of the city planning is rotten by design. I also think it'd be so difficult to make these changes because of the hyper-rugged individualism of American culture. I'd much rather spend a commute as a passenger of a train / bus / etc. than driving myself. I'd like the chance to relax, get work done, go on my phone, do anything during that commute rather than focus all my energy and getting stressed out watching out for other drivers on the road / navigating dense traffic before / after whatever I'm doing at that location.

 

[smooch]

You only address one part of my criticism. Cars are simply more comfortable. You can go where you wish, when you wish, with no one disrupting you. Cars are the ultimate freedom. I can pack up a suitcase and go to New York right this second, no waiting around, no buying tickets, just hitting the open highway, listening to my favorite music, stopping at random places, seeing the beauty of upstate. Trains are wonderful, but they simply do not offer the flexibility and freedom provided by automobiles. I do not want my right to movement to be reliant on others; I want to be in control of where I go and when I go.

Advocating for more public transit is not the same as advocating to take your car away. I would love to not have to rely on owning a car to exist within society, but I would definitely still own a car for the reasons you said. But not everyone wants, or more importantly, not everyone can afford a car and the issue becomes the lack of alternatives. In what sane world does "the most developed country" not even have sidewalks / walkways in many major cities connecting parts of town? Sidewalks that just end abruptly? No bike lanes / infrastructure but 6 lanes for cars?

The fact that our country as a whole and even our own state doesn't have high speed rail due to lobbying in the past from car manufacturers and even in the present (Elon Musk presenting the Boring Company as an alternative to high speed rail, which ended up being awful and all that time and money spent could have been used all these years to have a functioning rail system by now or in the next few years) is incredibly silly. I traveled to Italy and Czech a few years ago and did not need to rent a car / have my own car once in my 3 weeks, there were plenty of options to walk or take public transit for short or long distances.

When you are physically isolated from reaching anything around you without some form of car transportation, that is not the ultimate sign of freedom. The car is literally a prison, it constricts your freedom of choice to transport however you wish. Tell me you've never heard people complain about sitting in bumper to bumper traffic when they're tired on the way home from work. I know it, for the last 6 months I've driven an hour to work each way and finally moved much closer a few weeks ago and sitting in a car for an hour before and after work with no choice of alternative is not freedom.

 

[Consumer]

I am not from Anaheim (Not even close). I've managed all my visits without parking on property just fine, no hassle from other people. Sounds like a skill issue?

What a bizarre comment.

When you are physically isolated from reaching anything around you without some form of car transportation, that is not the ultimate sign of freedom. The car is literally a prison, it constricts your freedom of choice to transport however you wish. Tell me you've never heard people complain about sitting in bumper to bumper traffic when they're tired on the way home from work. I know it, for the last 6 months I've driven an hour to work each way and finally moved much closer a few weeks ago and sitting in a car for an hour before and after work with no choice of alternative is not freedom.

When you rely exclusively on public transportation, the grants the government the power to deny you your right to travel, as seen in China. I would much rather have to wait an hour in traffic than rely on public transportation for this reason alone.

 

[Disney Irish]

What a bizarre comment.

When you rely exclusively on public transportation, the grants the government the power to deny you your right to travel, as seen in China. I would much rather have to wait an hour in traffic than rely on public transportation for this reason alone.

No one is taking away your car or your right to be miserable in traffic , and no government outside of the one you mentioned is denying travel by transit.

Everywhere else in the industrialized world has access to adequate public transportation systems so that if someone doesn't want to have a car they can still get around. Its really only in the US, one of the richest nations in the world, where we can't seem to get a proper system in place to accomplish the same. Maybe one day we will, especially as car ownership becomes prohibitively expensive.

 

[AJFireman]

If going from San Bernardino / Riverside area RTA has an Express Commuter Bus that makes very few scheduled stops and its 3.50 each way. Last summer had a special and was only $.25 . I have tried it from the La Sierra Metrolink station and its the last stop before getting on the freeway next stop Village of Orange. I have ridden it where It went from La Sierra to Disneyland only 3 scheduled stops and if no one is getting off its quick. It averages an hour(1.5 during rush hour) because it takes the toll lanes but drops you off in front on the Harbor side. Drive time in personal vehicle is about 40 minutes but then have to deal with parking and transportation. Its a great option especially when you do not have to sit in 91 traffic. I think this works because the Fastrak lanes are more predictable then carpool lanes if they tried it from any other direction.

 

[mickEblu]

No one is taking away your car or your right to be miserable in traffic , and no government outside of the one you mentioned is denying travel by transit.

Everywhere else in the industrialized world has access to adequate public transportation systems so that if someone doesn't want to have a car they can still get around. Its really only in the US, one of the richest nations in the world, where we can't seem to get a proper system in place to accomplish the same. Maybe one day we will, especially as car ownership becomes prohibitively expensive.

We’re not rich. We just have “good” credit.