DisneylandForward

NobodyElse

Well-Known Member
What are the chances that Disney could get the Candy Cane and/or Desert Inn and Alpine Inn properties now I wonder??? Do they even want them? One would think they still would.

I just don't think their hearts are in it at this point. I think they got as much as they could and said "Okay, that's it." Then they re-aligned the power transmission lines based on that boundary. I suppose if they ever did acquire any of those lots, they could be used for offices, or other things that might get relocated from current backstage, but I think DCA expansion into those areas would be a no go.
 
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Consumer

Well-Known Member
I just don't think their hearts are in it at this point. I think they got as much as they could and said "Okay, that's it." Then they re-aligned the power transmission lines based on that boundary. I suppose if they ever did acquire any of those lots, they could be used for offices, or other things that might get relocated form current backstage, but I think DCA expansion into those areas would be a no go.
If they were to purchase and expand DCA down there, they'd have to do a better job at covering the backside of Cadillac Range.
1709263144091.png
 

truecoat

Well-Known Member
I don't remember all the details in the video but is it possible he was just talking about the lot closest to Disneyland drive? The one between Downtown Drive and Disneyland Drive. That one is about 6 acres.

Lol, you had me second-guessing so I took another look. I didn't include the building in red but his representation is way off.
 

DLR92

Well-Known Member
The water tower installed behind Carsland seems to confirmed there is no interest to buy out the corner lot of 7-11, much of the hotels concentrated in that corner.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
The water tower installed behind Carsland seems to confirmed there is no interest to buy out the corner lot of 7-11, much of the hotels concentrated in that corner.
What is the water tower used for? If exclusively for Disney use, it can be moved elsewhere if needed or even made a part of any expansion of the area. If exclusively for the hotels, then if Disney does buy them then its usage wouldn't be needed anymore. So that being there doesn't seem to confirm much of anything regarding buying out that corner in my opinion.
 

disneylandcm

Well-Known Member
It's mostly new. If you're young enough to consider something after the first half of the Clinton Administration new.

Using that same aerial photo from 1995 to show what is now the Simba parking lot, we see that it's mostly unused farmland. But there's a few motels along what would become Disneyland Drive (then known as West Street). In the southwest corner there's a structure that is unknown to me, or at least I don't remember. It looks like it might have been a movie theater? But the majority of it is dirt, likely an old citrus orchard that had been cleared by '95 in preparation for development. The Pan Pacific Hotel (now Pixar Place Hotel) is clearly seen in '95, along with its existing parking structure.

But for the most part, the Simba Parking Lot as we know it circa 2001-2024 was non-existent in 1995.

View attachment 770717

Thinking back to the 20th century, I mostly remember this corner of the Resort District as the location of the fabulously kitschy, even at the time, location of the several futuristic Best Western theme motels owned by the Stovall family. They were located directly south of what is now the Simba lot on Katella. (TP2000 Brush With Celebrity Greatness: I chatted a few times with the Stovall heiress at parties in the 2000's in Villa Park.)

best-western-stovalls-space-age-lodge-1960s-located-in-v0-l6hygwf43nra1.jpg

best-western-stovalls-space-age-lodge-1960s-located-in-v0-vy8zbkf57nra1.jpg

2be73bb3619a07863a92b71f1fede73c.jpg
I believe that the building in the lower corner was a bowling alley. It became storage for the park’s Christmas decor and a home for black widows (so I was told) and referred to as CalBowl.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I believe that the building in the lower corner was a bowling alley. It became storage for the park’s Christmas decor and a home for black widows (so I was told) and referred to as CalBowl.

Wow, I had no idea! But I've never been much of a bowler, or a fan of any activity with rented shoes really.

I Googled up the rough address, and sure enough, you are right! It was built in 1958 and through the 1960's it was known as Wonder Bowl. And typical of the times, the design and aesthetic of the place is absolutely fabulous.

wonder-bowl-CP.jpg


The sign says "Open Bowling 24 Hours - Free Instruction Daily - Helen Tebert In Piano Bar - Roast Sirloin Of Beef something? - Coffee Shop & Luncheon"

Here it is a few years later, judging by the '59 Ford and a 1960 DeSoto in the parking lot, and the piano bar has been rechristened as the "Gilded Cage Lounge". I bet most kids today don't know that bowling alleys in the 20th century were often home to the neighborhood's best cocktail lounge, with a smoky dancefloor and big vinyl booths to hide away in. I'd imagine that Gilded Cage Lounge had some good stories to tell by about 1965. :cool:

6822567634_5fe5aaa107_c.jpg



Anaheim sure did turn their backs on the Googie aesthetic, which is a shame. Instead, in the 1990's they went with bland corporate beige stucco for all signage. Yes, for the most part the decades of competing signage had created an eyesore by the 1990's. But in hindsight, they went way too far into making things bland and uniform in my opinion.

Maybe DisneylandForward could address that aging problem? The uniform signage code is looking rather dated and 1990's by today's standards. Time to spruce this aesthetic up and make it look a bit more fun, instead of a boring condo complex circa 1998.

IMG_6671-1024x768.jpg
 
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Nirya

Well-Known Member
It would probably be helpful for Disney if they bought those properties, if only because they could convert it into backstage warehouses and move the current buildings behind Incredicoaster, freeing that space up for a showbuilding and Pixar Pier expansion, along with the theoretical path to the expansion space on the other side of Disneyland Drive. Theoretically, the Candy Cane Inn could be extra space for an expansion space behind Guardians, but considering much of that is likely earmarked for the Avengers ride that is definitely still happening, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
 

disneylandcm

Well-Known Member
Wow, I had no idea! But I've never been much of a bowler, or a fan of any activity with rented shoes really.

I Googled up the rough address, and sure enough, you are right! It was built in 1958 and through the 1960's it was known as Wonder Bowl. And typical of the times, the design and aesthetic of the place is absolutely fabulous.

wonder-bowl-CP.jpg


The sign says "Open Bowling 24 Hours - Free Instruction Daily - Helen Tebert In Piano Bar - Roast Sirloin Of Beef something? - Coffee Shop & Luncheon"

Here it is a few years later, judging by the '59 Ford and a 1960 DeSoto in the parking lot, and the piano bar has been rechristened as the "Gilded Cage Lounge". I bet most kids today don't know that bowling alleys in the 20th century were often home to the neighborhood's best cocktail lounge, with a smoky dancefloor and big vinyl booths to hide away in. I'd imagine that Gilded Cage Lounge had some good stories to tell by about 1965. :cool:

6822567634_5fe5aaa107_c.jpg



Anaheim sure did turn their backs on the Googie aesthetic, which is a shame. Instead, in the 1990's they went with bland corporate beige stucco for all signage. Yes, for the most part the decades of competing signage had created an eyesore by the 1990's. But in hindsight, they went way too far into making things bland and uniform in my opinion.

Maybe DisneylandForward could address that aging problem? The uniform signage code is looking rather dated and 1990's by today's standards. Time to spruce this aesthetic up and make it look a bit more fun, instead of a boring condo complex circa 1998.

IMG_6671-1024x768.jpg
Now that you’ve shown those wonderful pictures, I remember they did refer to it as Wonder Bowl. I’d misremembered that. What a shame we lost that amazing design!
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Was he talking about Disneyland itself or the DLR as a whole? As a whole that makes sense with all the parking lots that can be converted. But Disneyland itself I’d be curious what all they’re thinking

I'm sure he means DLR as a whole, primarily with DLForward, but that means also increasing the footprint of the existing parks including DL itself. There are pockets of expansion space that can be used to expand DL itself, such as backstage behind GE and TT.
 

smooch

Well-Known Member
Reading this thread has validated my intense hatred for car centric city planning. All of this discussion of how much land we could use for the parks themselves if there weren't the need / legal requirement of providing so many parking spaces for the resort. Massive concrete wastelands full of pollution and stress.
 

Consumer

Well-Known Member
Reading this thread has validated my intense hatred for car centric city planning. All of this discussion of how much land we could use for the parks themselves if there weren't the need / legal requirement of providing so many parking spaces for the resort. Massive concrete wastelands full of pollution and stress.
Assuming the average guest lives in the Valley, that's about a 2 hour train ride. Driving is only about an hour, even with LA traffic. Personally, and I imagine this is the case for many, I would much rather be in the comfort of my own car, going at my own speed, than stuck on public transportation with strangers who probably don't smell good. That's also not to discount the many guests who come from Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and other parts of California. So, unfortunately for you, the car is not going away any time soon.

That all said, I do think Anaheim could greatly benefit from some light rail. Having a light rail system that runs from the ARTIC station down Katella to the Disneyland Resort and Anaheim Convention Center seems like a no brainer. It would certainly help unify the greater Resort District. However, even to speak to your concerns, by doing so guests would be able to park further away in parking lots and garages not on Disney property. This would be cheaper for the guests, more profitable for Anaheim, and could free up Disney's property. Seems to me like a win-win-win (except the part where Disney can't extort its guests for $30+ parking).
 

duncedoof

Well-Known Member
Assuming the average guest lives in the Valley, that's about a 2 hour train ride. Driving is only about an hour, even with LA traffic. Personally, and I imagine this is the case for many, I would much rather be in the comfort of my own car, going at my own speed, than stuck on public transportation with strangers who probably don't smell good. That's also not to discount the many guests who come from Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and other parts of California. So, unfortunately for you, the car is not going away any time soon.

That all said, I do think Anaheim could greatly benefit from some light rail. Having a light rail system that runs from the ARTIC station down Katella to the Disneyland Resort and Anaheim Convention Center seems like a no brainer. It would certainly help unify the greater Resort District. However, even to speak to your concerns, by doing so guests would be able to park further away in parking lots and garages not on Disney property. This would be cheaper for the guests, more profitable for Anaheim, and could free up Disney's property. Seems to me like a win-win-win (except the part where Disney can't extort its guests for $30+ parking).
I am not from Anaheim (Not even close). I've managed all my visits without parking on property just fine, no hassle from other people. Sounds like a skill issue?
 

etc98

Well-Known Member
Assuming the average guest lives in the Valley, that's about a 2 hour train ride. Driving is only about an hour, even with LA traffic. Personally, and I imagine this is the case for many, I would much rather be in the comfort of my own car, going at my own speed, than stuck on public transportation with strangers who probably don't smell good. That's also not to discount the many guests who come from Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and other parts of California. So, unfortunately for you, the car is not going away any time soon.

That all said, I do think Anaheim could greatly benefit from some light rail. Having a light rail system that runs from the ARTIC station down Katella to the Disneyland Resort and Anaheim Convention Center seems like a no brainer. It would certainly help unify the greater Resort District. However, even to speak to your concerns, by doing so guests would be able to park further away in parking lots and garages not on Disney property. This would be cheaper for the guests, more profitable for Anaheim, and could free up Disney's property. Seems to me like a win-win-win (except the part where Disney can't extort its guests for $30+ parking).
The issue is the reason why it’s a 2 hour train ride and 1 hour car ride is exactly because of the car centric planning. Theres no reason why a train ride couldn’t be faster and more comfortable than driving. But because we prioritize freeways and roads and parking over any other form of transportation, it doesn’t happen.

It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Cars are the only transportation method that’s good, so it’s the only one that people use, so it’s the only one that gets investment, so it’s the only one that’s good, and on and on.
 

Consumer

Well-Known Member
The issue is the reason why it’s a 2 hour train ride and 1 hour car ride is exactly because of the car centric planning. Theres no reason why a train ride couldn’t be faster and more comfortable than driving. But because we prioritize freeways and roads and parking over any other form of transportation, it doesn’t happen.

It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Cars are the only transportation method that’s good, so it’s the only one that people use, so it’s the only one that gets investment, so it’s the only one that’s good, and on and on.
You only address one part of my criticism. Cars are simply more comfortable. You can go where you wish, when you wish, with no one disrupting you. Cars are the ultimate freedom. I can pack up a suitcase and go to New York right this second, no waiting around, no buying tickets, just hitting the open highway, listening to my favorite music, stopping at random places, seeing the beauty of upstate. Trains are wonderful, but they simply do not offer the flexibility and freedom provided by automobiles. I do not want my right to movement to be reliant on others; I want to be in control of where I go and when I go.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
For a family of four going to Disneyland, it costs less to drive in the family car and generally saves an hour or more off the trip time. Plus it's more comfortable, and the family is in safer surroundings throughout the trip. But Dad has to drive.

Looking at Google, here are the options a family of four would have to either take transit, or drive, to Disneyland. Let's imagine we have two mythical SoCal families, one lives in Burbank and one lives in Mission Viejo. Here are their current transit options and costs with the average price of gas currently at $4.60 per gallon and Disneyland parking $30. Children 17 and under ride free on Metrolink with a paying adult, so the kids only need to buy youth bus tickets in this scenario.

Mass Transit - Metrolink, MTA and/or OCTA
Burbank to Harbor Bus Stop = 2 Hours, 17 minutes (2 trains, 1 bus), $12.25 per adult one-way & $66.50 for 4 round-trip
Mission Viejo to Harbor Bus Stop = 1 Hour, 43 minutes (1 train, 2 buses) $11.25 per adult one-way & $54 for 4 round-trip

Private Car - 2019 Toyota Camry with a combined 30 MPG and gas at $4.60 per gallon
Burbank to Disneyland Parking = 1 Hour, 36 miles, $13 in gas, $30 for parking, $42 for 4 round-trip
Mission Viejo to Disneyland Parking = 45 minutes, 22 miles, $8 in gas, $30 for parking, $37 for 4 round-trip

This doesn't take into account the times for transit would need an extra 15 or 20 minutes tacked on to them in order to walk to the nearest bus stop with a few minutes to spare. The driving times for the Camry assume a driveway to parking spot drive time on a Saturday morning and night with moderate traffic. I added on an extra dollar in gas costs to account for the few miles a family generally needs to drive from their home to a freeway onramp.
 
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