DisneylandForward

[mickEblu]

If Avatar is going to DCA it looks like the Hyperion would have to go. I could see an FOP or other show building going there and in conjunction with the Hollywood backlot and some of the eastern gateway space of necessary.

 

[truecoat]

My opinion based on what I've seen from vids with summary of the event, with security staying on-property very little would be able to be used for expansion. You might be able to get a bit from the current Toy Story bus drop-off area, but that is about it. Its not going to be the bigger area that would have been attained by having security on Harbor before the bridge.

I guess they could reconfigure the ramp from the bridge to end at a different place closer to Harbor and place security right there. Not sure what that would do with congestion, ie backing guests waiting for security check on to the bridge. Maybe that'll add more area to reclaim for expansion, dunno.

It'll be interesting to see the proposals they submit starting next year.

There's no reason to move the dropoff over there if you're not moving security also.

 

[mickEblu]

Maybe I’m confused. Only the security is staying put in the new plan right? Bus drop off would still be across the street like it was in the old plan?

 

[truecoat]

I assume this means the monorail track can be rerouted for DCA expansion?

The track would be moved like this.

 

[mickEblu]

The track would be moved like this.

View attachment 710897

Looks like they could still have a decent expansion area if they want. Awkward layout though. Side note: just realized why I was confused. Currently running after my 2 year old and thought I was looking at the current bus transpo area butted against the 5 freeway not the proposed future one.

 

[truecoat]

Maybe I’m confused. Only the security is staying put in the new plan right? Bus drop off would still be across the street like it was in the old plan?

From what Freshbeaked said, security would stay. This would allow access to Harbor businesses and hotels via stairs or elevator at the bridge and would also allow Anaheim to take out the crosswalk and light.

 

[Disney Irish]

There's no reason to move the dropoff over there if you're not moving security also.

The movement of the current transportation hub on-property to the new transportation hub in the EGW was to improve the traffic on Harbor, that hasn't changed. So security not moving has nothing to do with whether they move the transportation hub or not. Anaheim would still want that bus traffic off of Harbor.

 

[Disney Irish]

Oh that picture above is confusing. It has the 5 butted up against the bus transpo area so I’m not sure if I was looking at something accurate. I haven’t seen any vids. I just assumed that if they wanted they could still use the majority of that bus transpo area if they kept just a modest bridge/path to security on the far north side of said area that then just opens up a bit towards security. Still would be decent chunk of land to add to the Hollywood backstages land even if the security tents stayed put. Just invest in those metal detectors Disney and get those guests flowing. But I agree. It doesn’t seem like a DCA expansion there is in the plan anymore.

Yes that picture is not accurate as it just represents a placement of the bridge/ramp not the whole EGW project. And especially not the updated proposal that is part of the DLF project.

However with that said if they butted up DCA footprint as close to the ramp as possible reclaiming the bus/shuttle drop-off they would get a bit of an expansion even with security staying where they are.

 

[truecoat]

The movement of the current transportation hub on-property to the new transportation hub in the EGW was to improve the traffic on Harbor, that hasn't changed. So security not moving has nothing to do with whether they move the transportation hub or not. Anaheim would still want that bus traffic off of Harbor.

I think it was Dark Beer who said moving security out of the esplanade was a priority for Disney. But it makes sense to keep the peace.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think it was Dark Beer who said moving security out of the esplanade was a priority for Disney. But it makes sense to keep the peace.

Two different pieces of the project, three if you include the parking garage and its traffic flow adjustments. One was to move security out of the esplanade to make the bubble as big as possible and remove potential threats as far away from the entrance as possible. Second was to move the transportation hub to remove that traffic off of Harbor as much as possible and build the bridge for the removal of the crosswalk, this is all to improve Harbor traffic flow.

 

[DrAlice]

Well Disney did try to compromise by offering to pay for cut-through entrances to the Gateway pathway at the back of each business so guests wouldn't have to walk all the way around to Disney Way to enter the Gateway pathway.

But by that point all the Harbor businesses were against the project and it would have been DOA had it been submitted for City approval. So the way they are doing it now, while cutting some needed expansion area, is to get community buy-in including approval from all Harbor businesses. Something they should have done from the beginning.

Yes, but the cut-throughs took away from the business' parking lots. At least, that was the sticking point for the McDonald's. But, otherwise, yes, I agree with you. Disney's initial (and arrogant?) approach of "here's what we're doing!" caught everyone off-guard and put the businesses on the defensive. By the time they came back with compromise ideas, it was too late. The trust was gone. Like you said, what they are doing today with the community outreach is MUCH more likely to succeed.

 

[truecoat]

Two different pieces of the project, three if you include the parking garage and its traffic flow adjustments. One was to move security out of the esplanade to make the bubble as big as possible and remove potential threats as far away from the entrance as possible. Second was to move the transportation hub to remove that traffic off of Harbor as much as possible and build the bridge for the removal of the crosswalk, this is all to improve Harbor traffic flow.

Now I see why I had security on the brain.

Once again, the Security Check HAS to be moved, and you might as well move the Transportation Plaza at the same time.

As I mentioned earlier, the Pummba parking structure can be built at a later date.

But since Disney has a friendly council currently, unlike 2014, they might as well get the approval done through the Planning Commission and City Council.

But the new Security Check is Needed, and that is for many of the off-property Hotel guests who walk to the reports using Harbor Blvd, use ART, other shuttles, Uber, Lyft, etc. And to move the Security Check, you need the Bridge and Transportation Plaza.

With the 2028 Olympics, many folks will stay outside the Resort Area, but will be using Trains and other vehicles to the ARTIC Station, and then transit to the Transportation Plaza area to visit the DLR. Those guests need the extra room the new Manchester area provides. Heck, look at how busy the Taxi/Uber/Lyft/passenger drop off area was pre-COVID. When things get back to normal, it will just get worse, and it has no way to expand in its current location.

Look, the distance from the current Eastern Check to the parks and entrance gates is too close in the opinion of let alone Disney Security, but of many Law Enforcement groups at the local, state and Federal levels, including DHS.

They feel too many unscreened guests can get too close. Also the vehicles in the Transportation Plaza, which could be carrying explosives.

Years ago, they moved all non-ART vehicles to drop off next to the OCTA/LA Metro bus stop, basically as far as possible in the current setup.

ART bus yards are inspected regularly, ART employees are security screened as part of the hiring process, etc.

But the point is that the DLR Security Bubble needs to be expanded.

It was one of the reasons the public sidewalk was planned to be removed on the west side of Harbor from Manchester to Disney Way, along with re-routing the Public Buses to Manchester.

 

[Nirya]

The new potential expansion area would be small, but to give a comparison, it'd be roughly the equivalent in size of Critter Country (and yes I'm including the Splash show building). It's not insignificant, though you have to answer the question of what you'd actually do with the area, and by extension all of Hollywood Land.

 

[chadwpalm]

Yeah, I remember the McDonald's owner losing his mind over that (rightfully so, to be fair). As a guest, I didn't relish the idea of staying in a hotel across the street from the entrance and having to walk all the way around the block to get to the security area.

This is not a bad compromise. Frankly, they should've come back with this proposal during the original negotiations. It could've been built by now. Stubborn execs.

Fairness is a point of view. I'm sure all the hotels and restaurants that aren't on Harbor feel that the ones who do have an unfair advantage given those are the ones that always fill up first and can charge higher prices for a premium location. To me, the Eastern Gateway was leveling the playing field.....if level playing fields and fair competition are your thing.

I'm honestly surprised the non-harbor hotels didn't speak up when the harbor hotels were making a stink. Or maybe they were and nobody was listening.....but what I think is that the public didn't want to lose their advantage either.

 

[chadwpalm]

There's no reason to move the dropoff over there if you're not moving security also.

Wasn't moving the drop off to the east side supposed to help alleviate traffic on Harbor along with the crossover bridge helping to keep people safe from crossing the busy street?

Obviously Disney's desire to extend the "Disney Bubble" didn't go as planned, but if continuing to have the transit hub be off of Harbor to the eastern side it still could allow for some kind of Hollywood Land expansion.

Couldn't they still have security on the eastern side and then let the crossover bridge bypass security west of Harbor (much like the Toy Story bus drop offs do)? Then for those entering off of Harbor they have a reduced security check just for those people?

 

[Disney Irish]

Yes, but the cut-throughs took away from the business' parking lots. At least, that was the sticking point for the McDonald's.

Either you want foot traffic or you don't, saying you'll have too much foot traffic with the compromise is just petty in my opinion.

But, otherwise, yes, I agree with you. Disney's initial (and arrogant?) approach of "here's what we're doing!" caught everyone off-guard and put the businesses on the defensive. By the time they came back with compromise ideas, it was too late. The trust was gone. Like you said, what they are doing today with the community outreach is MUCH more likely to succeed.

Had they done this in the first place likely wouldn't have required so many changes. But that is all history now.

 

[Disney Irish]

Now I see why I had security on the brain.

Yes, that was the stance back then. However its obviously not as critical as it was made out to be if they are keeping security where it is in the new proposal.

But still the transportation hub and security were too separate pieces of the project.

 

[Disney Irish]

Wasn't moving the drop off to the east side supposed to help alleviate traffic on Harbor along with the crossover bridge helping to keep people safe from crossing the busy street?

It was to keep the bus/shuttle traffic off of Harbor.

Obviously Disney's desire to extend the "Disney Bubble" didn't go as planned, but if continuing to have the transit hub be off of Harbor to the eastern side it still could allow for some kind of Hollywood Land expansion.

That is the assumption, that a bit of an expansion can still happen.

Couldn't they still have security on the eastern side and then let the crossover bridge bypass security west of Harbor (much like the Toy Story bus drop offs do)? Then for those entering off of Harbor they have a reduced security check just for those people?

No, as the new updated plan is to add stairs/elevators to the bridge by allowing that foot traffic on Harbor to access the bridge to cross after where security would have been. Can't have the security bubble if those accessing the bridge via the stairs/elevators aren't going through security.

 

[truecoat]

Yes, but the cut-throughs took away from the business' parking lots. At least, that was the sticking point for the McDonald's. But, otherwise, yes, I agree with you. Disney's initial (and arrogant?) approach of "here's what we're doing!" caught everyone off-guard and put the businesses on the defensive. By the time they came back with compromise ideas, it was too late. The trust was gone. Like you said, what they are doing today with the community outreach is MUCH more likely to succeed.

Yeah, here was the planned access from Harbor.

 

[mickEblu]

The new potential expansion area would be small, but to give a comparison, it'd be roughly the equivalent in size of Critter Country (and yes I'm including the Splash show building). It's not insignificant, though you have to answer the question of what you'd actually do with the area, and by extension all of Hollywood Land.

I think Hollywoodland goes away and BVS gets expanded all way to the Hyperion. The backlot becomes a transition area/ the beginning of Pandora. Monsters Inc may need to be sacrificed but not necessarily. Then with the all the Hollywood soundstages + Easter gateway expansion room you use for a combo of Pandora and ride show buildings. If two rides are coming they may need the Hyperions real estate as well.