DisneylandForward

[CaptinEO]

I would agree with this if eliminating the AP program was permanent, but I suspect it may be suspended for a year at best. They know they have to keep capacity low for now and can no longer shove every last human being into the parks any time soon. And there were plenty of complaints by APers at WDW that they felt they were getting jilted by not being able to go more and we know they are nowhere close to the numbers DLR has.

But my guess is the day things can become 'normal' again and can pack the parks, the old mentality will come back. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but I really don't buy Disney will turn over a new leaf when the motto has been to make their parks as busy as possible.

You realize Disneyland can exist without annual passes right? They are adding "membership" options at some point, but they can absolutely do their whole operation without annual passes ever coming back (in whatever term they will choose to call it).

Making people buy admission in bulk tends to leave people disgruntled as they attempt to get their value out of it. As it got higher in price it just got silly, youd have to visit 12 times a year to break even on the highest pass.

Disney created that crowding situation IMO, I don't blame the customers.

 

[mickEblu]

Mayor Tait was against it. The council just let EVERY Planning Commissioner go. So between November 2016 through 2018, the council was against anything Disney, especially the Mayor.

The vast majority of Resort Businesses were for the project. A few restaurants were against it, and allowed the new Planning Commission to say no.

Mayor Tait saved Toontown. Mayor Tait is Eddie Valiant

 

[TP2000]

Right now, everything is very different. And people, especially locals are going to be hungry to get into the parks again. Many will happily pay full price. But how long will that last? I'm just not convinced.

I couldn't agree more with that!

There is definitely pent-up demand. But it's only going to take a few months to work through that pent-up demand. It's not going to stretch on for years, only a few months. And at the same time, restrictions and mandates will be falling by the wayside and being cancelled by Sacramento as the months click along.

At the pace with which things are changing now in Sacramento, like how quickly they recalibrated the Tiers and lowered the original standards to allow nearly everyone to instantly enter the Red Tier in the last week, this isn't going to take long at all.

We're only talking about 12 months of regional and light consumer restrictions. The pent-up demand, while it's a real thing, won't last that long.

 

[fctiger]

You realize Disneyland can exist without annual passes right? They are adding "membership" options at some point, but they can absolutely do their whole operation without annual passes ever coming back (in whatever term they will choose to call it).

Making people buy admission in bulk tends to leave people disgruntled as they attempt to get their value out of it. As it got higher in price it just got silly, youd have to visit 12 times a year to break even on the highest pass.

Disney created that crowding situation IMO, I don't blame the customer.

I literally just gave you two examples of what happened when they limited the APs and less people showed up, they freaked. And neither time were eliminating them completely, just limiting them.

If they could get by with APs, then why do they go the opposite extreme and make them more accessible the second the attendance dips??? This is what we are talking about. Every time, EVERY TIME, attendance falls just a little, they rely on them to get people back in the park. Do you remember the 'bring a friend' program back in 2018 when Pixar Pier opened? Attendance dipped that year (ironically because people argued they were waiting to go back to the park for GE the following year). That program was done through the AP program only. They could've just discounted regular tickets, they didn't do that. Instead they chose to have people pay only $99 if they were attached to someone who already had an AP.

And I'm not blaming the APs. What I'm saying is Disney has high expectations when it comes to attendance. It's been that way for decades now. And it's no way you are going to get anything close to what they got in the past with both an economic downturn and people just traveling less out of fear. So my only assumption is Disney expects a lot less revenue in the next year or two (its better than zero after a full year lol) or they really do believe they somehow can get more money from locals and tourists when everything in the current situation tells you that's most likely the opposite effect.

And that's what I mean when I say they will come back, in the form of memberships. I don't expect them to come back soon or even the first year, but they are NOT getting rid of APs. They simply giving it another name and with more restrictions. And that will probably happen when capacity can get to a higher level or at least over 50%.

 

[fctiger]

I couldn't agree more with that!

There is definitely pent-up demand. But it's only going to take a few months to work through that pent-up demand. It's not going to stretch on for years, only a few months. And at the same time, restrictions and mandates will be falling by the wayside and being cancelled by Sacramento as the months click along.

At the pace with which things are changing now in Sacramento, like how quickly they recalibrated the Tiers and lowered the original standards to allow nearly everyone to instantly enter the Red Tier in the last week, this isn't going to take long at all.

We're only talking about 12 months of regional and light consumer restrictions. The pent-up demand, while it's a real thing, won't last that long.

Exactly! I expect only a few months too! And of course now is the perfect time to open because they are doing it in the middle of spring and through the summer, so plenty of people will try to be going. But that's the other thing, as life returns more normal for everyone, ie, people are back in work, kids school, etc, it will have the same effect it always does and come fall and winter, less people will be trying to go. I suspect things can stay busy through the fall, as long as the capacity cap is under 50%. But post-Christmas, I don't expect the parks to be super busy if they are only selling one day or multi tickets. Maybe I will be proven wrong, not the first lol, but you see this pattern at most theme parks country wide. It's a reason why places like Six Flaggs MM don't even operate 7 days a week outside of high season.

All these parks are pretty dead in half the year even WITH APs! I don't see DL faring much better once people had their fill for awhile. But it should be no problem for at least 6 months right now.

 

[Darkbeer1]

They didn't eliminate all the APs, I should've been more clearer, but they stopped NEW people from getting APs a few weeks before DCA opened. I know this because I tried to get one lol. I remember being at the ticket booth asking about it and the attendant said they have stopped all AP sales because, and you can't make this up, 'they are afraid California Adventure is going to be too popular and they don't want people at the hotels complaining they can't get in if it reaches capacity every day'. I still chuckle remembering that 20 years later!

Now of course, it's been 20 years later, their expectations and goals have shifted a lot. Maybe something in their research suggest the park will be popular enough with just multi day tickets or something. But we probably won't see the resort operating at full capacity probably for a full year or even into 2023, so for now, it may not be a huge issue.

And none of this had anything to do with the eastern parking lot. I actually agree, it just doesn't seem as needed now. They built an entire Pixar parking garage for GE and that never filled up that summer because so many APs were blocked out, so I don't see the need for yet ANOTHER parking structure for a long long time.

The Eastern Gateway project was never about the parking.

If Disney wants to build a Parking Structure on the Pummba Lot, they can do that today, by right. The city gave permission for it in 1996.

The key points of the Eastern Gateway was to shift infrastructure from the West side of Harbor to Manchester, to gain land that Disney can use to expand the parks, once again, by right. No need for city approval on that side of the street.

Also, Disney (and other law enforcement agencies) really want to get Security moved away from the hub.

Also, the Olympics are coming to Anaheim in 2028, and all major (short term, aka 10 years) projects for both Disney and the resort area need to be completed.

That is why Disney is still planning to bring the project back to the Planning Commission sooner than later.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Exactly! I expect only a few months too! And of course now is the perfect time to open because they are doing it in the middle of spring and through the summer, so plenty of people will try to be going. But that's the other thing, as life returns more normal for everyone, ie, people are back in work, kids school, etc, it will have the same effect it always does and come fall and winter, less people will be trying to go. I suspect things can stay busy through the fall, as long as the capacity cap is under 50%. But post-Christmas, I don't expect the parks to be super busy if they are only selling one day or multi tickets. Maybe I will be proven wrong, not the first lol, but you see this pattern at most theme parks country wide. It's a reason why places like Six Flaggs MM don't even operate 7 days a week outside of high season.

All these parks are pretty dead in half the year even WITH APs! I don't see DL faring much better once people had their fill for awhile. But it should be no problem for at least 6 months right now.

Six Flags Magic Mountain operates year round, 7 days a week.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Isn't that quote wonderful?

It's really a beautiful little gift that Dr. Moreno gave us when he said that on purpose in a planned sit-down interview with the Journal.

"It’s as if somehow we should feel fortunate that Walt Disney chose Anaheim,” -Dr. Jose Moreno, Anaheim City Councilman, speaking to the Wall Street Journal, September 17th, 2018

But I agree, local politicians will now be tripping over themselves to help the Anaheim Resort District as much as they can. That obviously means Disneyland, but we can't forget the Anaheim Convention Center (largest on the West Coast!) and also the Angels and the Honda Center.

Anaheim already lost many small businesses in the Resort District in the last year, and some rather large businesses like the American Sports Center that was a big attendance draw. Many of the businesses that still remain are hanging by a thread, and none are financially strong. Working with Disneyland will be key to building the Resort District back up as much as possible, although it may never quite be the same.

At the very least, anti-business politicians like Dr. Moreno will have to reframe their anti-business debate and realize their voice has been diminished politically by all this.

Dr. Moreno was being very stylish when he said that famous quote in 2018, but suddenly in 2021 he looks like a tone deaf fool.

Like other locations, Anaheim needs to look out for their businesses. Investment in local ones especially pay off- it brings an energy and a sense of pride to a community as people are gainfully employed and feel their contribution makes a difference. Younger workers or those less experienced are also trained and grow as valuable employees, strengthening their personal incomes. Keeping businesses going helps make a strong community- and the results last far longer than handouts. "Teach people to fish..." etc.

 

[CaptinEO]

I literally just gave you two examples of what happened when they limited the APs and less people showed up, they freaked. And neither time were eliminating them completely, just limiting them.

If they could get by with APs, then why do they go the opposite extreme and make them more accessible the second the attendance dips??? This is what we are talking about. Every time, EVERY TIME, attendance falls just a little, they rely on them to get people back in the park. Do you remember the 'bring a friend' program back in 2018 when Pixar Pier opened? Attendance dipped that year (ironically because people argued they were waiting to go back to the park for GE the following year). That program was done through the AP program only. They could've just discounted regular tickets, they didn't do that. Instead they chose to have people pay only $99 if they were attached to someone who already had an AP.

And I'm not blaming the APs. What I'm saying is Disney has high expectations when it comes to attendance. It's been that way for decades now. And it's no way you are going to get anything close to what they got in the past with both an economic downturn and people just traveling less out of fear. So my only assumption is Disney expects a lot less revenue in the next year or two (its better than zero after a full year lol) or they really do believe they somehow can get more money from locals and tourists when everything in the current situation tells you that's most likely the opposite effect.

And that's what I mean when I say they will come back, in the form of memberships. I don't expect them to come back soon or even the first year, but they are NOT getting rid of APs. They simply giving it another name and with more restrictions. And that will probably happen when capacity can get to a higher level or at least over 50%.

I have to disagree with you. The freaked over attendance and they saw AP discounts for other people as an easy fix. They very well could have discounted tickets for anyone and gotten out of that mess.

The non APs saved the park by wanting to visit at a discount with friends. They should skip the middle man (AP) and just discount tickets when needed, same as any industry does.

The people running Disney have been too AP centric, which is why they finally dropped the hammer as it got confusing.

The APs shouldnt be the be all end all of admission. There are many more non APs than APs in the world and Disney should appeal to a wide audience.

Parks doing crappy? Take 30 dollars of admission? Still doing bad? Do buy a day get a day free.

You dont need this "unlimited entry" pass to turn profits.

 

[fctiger]

I have to disagree with you. The freaked over attendance and they saw AP discounts for other people as an easy fix. They very well could have discounted tickets for anyone and gotten out of that mess.

The non APs saved the park by wanting to visit at a discount with friends. They should skip the middle man (AP) and just discount tickets when needed, same as any industry does.

The people running Disney have been too AP centric, which is why they finally dropped the hammer as it got confusing.

The APs shouldnt be the be all end all of admission. There are many more non APs than APs in the world and Disney should appeal to a wide audience.

Parks doing crappy? Take 30 dollars of admission? Still doing bad? Do buy a day get a day free.

You dont need this "unlimited entry" pass to turn profits.

OK, I get your point, but the problem is that ALL the parks are AP centric these days. It's not just Disney or any one company. They all seem to rely on them and for a very good reason.

I agree with you, if they just make the freaking admission price lower, then yes, people wouldn't rely on them so much. But do you think that's going to happen? Even now? Sadly I doubt it. I bet you it's going to be the exact same price as before because AFAIK, they didn't discount any of the day prices for any of the other parks. And they all have their APs in tact too.

But for record, I think they CAN rely on more day admissions but yeah they have to mark them waaaaay down. I'm a perfect example of that. I lived in Tokyo for nearly 3 years. I went to TDR nearly once every two months. ALWAYS paid regular admission and never bought an AP. Because back then the tickets were around 5500 yen or $50. It wasn't even that long ago, this around 2005. An AP was around 60,000 yen or $600. Which means I couldve saved money if I bought the AP actually, but because the day passes weren't that bad (and I didn't know I would go as often, just things always happened) so it wasn't a big deal. I didn't want one because I didn't want to feel I HAVE to go just to get my money's worth. But it was fine.

And you want to know how much a day pass for TDR is today? It's around 68,000 yen or $65-70. That's REASONABLE! People are now paying more than that to walk around DCA with no rides lol. That's the issue as well. They don't seem like they want to keep things at a more comfortable, especially for families.

 

[VJ]

As I understand it, this project is going to be going out to local resort businesses, neighborhoods and government officials. Trying to get them all on board.

For another blurb about the branding of this project, and it's goal...

View attachment 540295

so i was curious about this and searched "disneylandforward" on google, and noticed these domains in a list of domains registered in february 2020:

disneylandforward.org, disneyforward.org and disneylandbackward.org all redirect to disneylandforward.com
my guess is this is something that was planned before the pandemic then was put on hold due to the closure of the resort?

 

[flutas]

so i was curious about this and searched "disneylandforward" on google, and noticed these domains in a list of domains registered in february 2020:
View attachment 540337
disneylandforward.org, disneyforward.org and disneylandbackward.org all redirect to disneylandforward.com
my guess is this is something that was planned before the pandemic then was put on hold due to the closure of the resort?

I'm not sure on if this was planned before, or delayed by COVID.

I can say there is ongoing work to get this off the ground in the short term.

If this was planned before, and they got delayed by COVID then Disney stumbled into a gold mine in terms of goodwill.

Thanks for the links though, something to watch.

EDIT: Checking a few more...

disneylandfuture.com (plus .org and .net) also seems to forward to

disneylandforward.com

 

[fctiger]

Six Flags Magic Mountain operates year round, 7 days a week.

That just shows how often I got to Magic Mountain these days.

 

[CaptinEO]

OK, I get your point, but the problem is that ALL the parks are AP centric these days. It's not just Disney or any one company. They all seem to rely on them and for a very good reason.

I agree with you, if they just make the freaking admission price lower, then yes, people wouldn't rely on them so much. But do you think that's going to happen? Even now? Sadly I doubt it. I bet you it's going to be the exact same price as before because AFAIK, they didn't discount any of the day prices for any of the other parks. And they all have their APs in tact too.

But for record, I think they CAN rely on more day admissions but yeah they have to mark them waaaaay down. I'm a perfect example of that. I lived in Tokyo for nearly 3 years. I went to TDR nearly once every two months. ALWAYS paid regular admission and never bought an AP. Because back then the tickets were around 5500 yen or $50. It wasn't even that long ago, this around 2005. An AP was around 60,000 yen or $600. Which means I couldve saved money if I bought the AP actually, but because the day passes weren't that bad (and I didn't know I would go as often, just things always happened) so it wasn't a big deal. I didn't want one because I didn't want to feel I HAVE to go just to get my money's worth. But it was fine.

And you want to know how much a day pass for TDR is today? It's around 68,000 yen or $65-70. That's REASONABLE! People are now paying more than that to walk around DCA with no rides lol. That's the issue as well. They don't seem like they want to keep things at a more comfortable, especially for families.

I see what you mean. I wouldn't say "ALL" parks, but certainly the southern california ones are. I notice that Orlando is all about the multiday tickets. Visiting 2 days in Universal Orlando is the same cost as 4 days, all the hotel deals were for 4 days as well.

We're going there this year but only had 2 days to visit the parks so ended up with Disney World again just cause I didn't like the idea that my 2 day ticket and 2 day hotel room is the same cost as what a 4 day trip would be.

Thats some really interesting information about Tokyo Disneyland. I really like those pricing options for an AP vs ticket. It seems that there an AP was 12 times the cost of a ticket. While at Disneyland a park hopper ticket is 179, and they had APs (which are park hoppers) starting at 399. Only the signature plus was close to the cost of 12 tickets here at Disneyland.

I really hope they discount admission at themeparks here as honestly, why force people to visit more than they want? Then you really have to do different things to mix it up and keep their interest.

I think for now while capacity is limited ticket prices for Disneyland will probably cost the same if not more than they used to. I don't see APs returning for a long time, unless they cap the number of people who purchase APs.

TDR sounds like they have it down. Even in 2006/2007 a Disneyland ticket was 60 dollars I want to say (not sure if it was a hopper or not). But still, thats what the price of a day trip should be then, in today's age that should come out to 75ish dollars, which I say is fine for visiting Disneyland.

My opinion is get rid of all the multiday ticket stuff, get rid of passes, have a ticket price, and a hopper price, and that's it.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I see what you mean. I wouldn't say "ALL" parks, but certainly the southern california ones are. I notice that Orlando is all about the multiday tickets. Visiting 2 days in Universal Orlando is the same cost as 4 days, all the hotel deals were for 4 days as well.

We're going there this year but only had 2 days to visit the parks so ended up with Disney World again just cause I didn't like the idea that my 2 day ticket and 2 day hotel room is the same cost as what a 4 day trip would be.

Thats some really interesting information about Tokyo Disneyland. I really like those pricing options for an AP vs ticket. It seems that there an AP was 12 times the cost of a ticket. While at Disneyland a park hopper ticket is 179, and they had APs (which are park hoppers) starting at 399. Only the signature plus was close to the cost of 12 tickets here at Disneyland.

I really hope they discount admission at themeparks here as honestly, why force people to visit more than they want? Then you really have to do different things to mix it up and keep their interest.

I think for now while capacity is limited ticket prices for Disneyland will probably cost the same if not more than they used to. I don't see APs returning for a long time, unless they cap the number of people who purchase APs.

TDR sounds like they have it down. Even in 2006/2007 a Disneyland ticket was 60 dollars I want to say (not sure if it was a hopper or not). But still, thats what the price of a day trip should be then, in today's age that should come out to 75ish dollars, which I say is fine for visiting Disneyland.

My opinion is get rid of all the multiday ticket stuff, get rid of passes, have a ticket price, and a hopper price, and that's it.

Tokyo's ticket prices pre-covid from TDR Explorer:

Ticket Type	Adult (18 years & older)	Junior (Ages 12-17)	Child (Ages 4-11)
1-Day Passport	¥8,200 (US$76)	¥6,900 (US$64)	¥4,900 (US$45)
Senior Passport (Ages 65 & over)	¥7,600 (US$70)
1-Day Passport for Guest with Disabilities	¥6,600 (US$61)	¥5,500 (US$51)	¥3,900 (US$36)
2-Day Passport	¥14,800 (US$136)	¥12,600 (US$116)	¥8,800 (US$81)
3-Day Magic Passport	¥19,800 (US$183)	¥16,800 (US$155)	¥11,800 (US$109)
4-Day Magic Passport	¥24,800 (US$229)	¥21,000 (US$194)	¥14,800 (US$137)
Starlight Passport	¥6,000 (US$55)	¥5,100 (US$47)	¥3,600 (US$33)
After 6 Passport	¥4,700 (US$43)

You cannot park hop on 1 or 2 day tickets, period (unless you buy special tickets available only if you're staying at one of the Disney hotels). Everyone can park hop on Day 3 or 4 of their ticket, period, no upcharge.

The Starlight ticket lets you in after 3 PM on weekends.

The APs, when they had them, were priced so that it was only practical over the daily tickets if you were going to visit a significant number of times.

There are a few drawbacks (tickets MUST be used on consecutive days; the monorail, which is the main way to get to DisneySea, requires a modest fee), but even with those drawbacks taken into account it's still a much better deal for an overall higher quality experience.

Ticket prices for the Chinese parks are very similar to Tokyo (HK perhaps marginally cheaper; I remember paying $50 to get into HKDL in 2010). Paris is more expensive but still less crazy than the US parks.

Only in the US is it always gouge, gouge, gouge.

 

[shambolicdefending]

I don't think it's needed anymore. I think it will take a couple years for Disney to reimagine their master plan for the area.

Somehow though it doesn't seem like maximizing capacity is their long term goal any longer.

Supposedly the Eastern Gateway was seen as an overdue necessity well before Galaxy's Edge was supposed to drive attendance up.

 

[celluloid]

Maybe the very limited temporary capacity will balance things out, but I think one will likely see daily admission price lowered.

Possible that the 15 percent capacity only lasts a few weeks and expands over a short amount of time proving no outbreaks.
By June it is not likely going to be just be Cali residents if things are still slowly getting better.

 

[el_super]

Supposedly the Eastern Gateway was seen as an overdue necessity well before Galaxy's Edge was supposed to drive attendance up.

It was overdue at the time, because the AP program demanded more and more APs for growth, and APs generally come one per car. Previously, with the plan to keep APs, they were going to need to expand the program to pay off SWGE. It would have been a never ending cycle of needing more and more APs and more and more parking until the parks were at capacity every day. It was a bad idea all around.

As long as the AP program is gone, there will be less need for parking. Period.

 

[mickEblu]

Whatever is less fun, less exciting, less optimistic. Wherever their is shade and no sun, frowns and no smiles, tears and no laughs... that is where you will find @el_super

 

[el_super]

Whatever is less fun, less exciting,

You find parking structures exciting?