Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
Don't need to fix what isn't broken... no need to completely rework those 2 minutes just to make it "new"
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News Disneyland to give Snow White’s Scary Adventures dark ride a major facelift in 2020
- Thread starter Communicora
- Start date
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
It's fine until the last 1/3 of the ride. The climax is a badly done as Little Mermaid.
Once again WDI struggles with understanding that rides are not movies and trying to cram plot points into dark corners with bad staging doesn't work. Ideally they would have scrapped the whole cliff and apple eating bits, and instead have the Dwarfs running the Witch out of the spooky woods with the Prince waiting at the end, still having the forest transforming as it does into beautiful bloom. Would have worked as a smoother transition.
Makes you appreciate even more what was done in Florida in 1994. Despite having worse effects and animations, it did a much better job of telling the story clearly with decent pacing compared to this Enchanted Wish version. Also like Florida post-1994, I suspect parents will still complain this ride is too scary. Especially with all the marketing emphasizing how magical and cuddly it is now, ignoring that the Witch is still there.
Once again WDI struggles with understanding that rides are not movies and trying to cram plot points into dark corners with bad staging doesn't work. Ideally they would have scrapped the whole cliff and apple eating bits, and instead have the Dwarfs running the Witch out of the spooky woods with the Prince waiting at the end, still having the forest transforming as it does into beautiful bloom. Would have worked as a smoother transition.
Makes you appreciate even more what was done in Florida in 1994. Despite having worse effects and animations, it did a much better job of telling the story clearly with decent pacing compared to this Enchanted Wish version. Also like Florida post-1994, I suspect parents will still complain this ride is too scary. Especially with all the marketing emphasizing how magical and cuddly it is now, ignoring that the Witch is still there.
Zorro 2.0
Member
First impressions upon seeing a youtube ride through: some parts good, and other parts not so good.
The good: I'm glad that Irvine and Co. didn't completely neuter and bowdlerize the attraction. The evil queen is still given a fair amount of attention, and there are still scary elements. The lighting is good, and the figures mostly look great. Some good effects in the evil queen's lair. I'm grateful that the peek-a-boo evil queen is still present outside.
The not so good: Whereas the previous iteration had a rushed ending, this update feels rushed period. The first portion which is largely the same as we have known since the early 1980s is fine. However, once we get into the significant alterations (largely starting with Snow White biting into the apple), everything sort of falls apart. At that point, the attraction feels disjointed and cramped. I think the problem is that Irvine and Co. tried cramming in too much narrative into too small a space, and it doesn't seem to work. This type of attraction is not well situated to convey narrative. It's far better suited to trying convey experience, feelings, and setting. The previous version conveyed all that well - we got the joyful peacefulness of the dwarfs' cottage, the creepiness of the queen's lair, the hysterical rush through the woods, etc. Plus, there was plenty of time to convey all of that. With this new version, the latter portion's emphasis on trying to hit the major points of the narrative largely misses out on the experiential and feeling aspects. If they could have simply figured out a way to put one last, fully developed scene at the end showing Snow White together with the prince (perhaps with them waving at the dwarfs or something similar), the previous version would have been nearly perfect. What they did here simply compromises the overall attraction. It isn't necessarily bad, but it pushes it closer to the DCA Little Mermaid attraction in quality.
Another gripe: the character projections. I like effects projections but no so much with characters because they don't feel cohesive with the mostly static physical figures. Without the projections, you don't tend to notice the how static the figures are, but that characteristic sort of stands out when you see the fully animated projections at the same time. You're just introducing unforced disparities.
One further gripe: I want the queen's dungeon back in the queue. Turning it into a medieval teenage girl's room seems weird to me.
Of course, this is all based upon viewing one ride through. I'll take a look at a few more during the evening, and I also realize that my opinions could change when I have the chance to experience the attraction in person.
The good: I'm glad that Irvine and Co. didn't completely neuter and bowdlerize the attraction. The evil queen is still given a fair amount of attention, and there are still scary elements. The lighting is good, and the figures mostly look great. Some good effects in the evil queen's lair. I'm grateful that the peek-a-boo evil queen is still present outside.
The not so good: Whereas the previous iteration had a rushed ending, this update feels rushed period. The first portion which is largely the same as we have known since the early 1980s is fine. However, once we get into the significant alterations (largely starting with Snow White biting into the apple), everything sort of falls apart. At that point, the attraction feels disjointed and cramped. I think the problem is that Irvine and Co. tried cramming in too much narrative into too small a space, and it doesn't seem to work. This type of attraction is not well situated to convey narrative. It's far better suited to trying convey experience, feelings, and setting. The previous version conveyed all that well - we got the joyful peacefulness of the dwarfs' cottage, the creepiness of the queen's lair, the hysterical rush through the woods, etc. Plus, there was plenty of time to convey all of that. With this new version, the latter portion's emphasis on trying to hit the major points of the narrative largely misses out on the experiential and feeling aspects. If they could have simply figured out a way to put one last, fully developed scene at the end showing Snow White together with the prince (perhaps with them waving at the dwarfs or something similar), the previous version would have been nearly perfect. What they did here simply compromises the overall attraction. It isn't necessarily bad, but it pushes it closer to the DCA Little Mermaid attraction in quality.
Another gripe: the character projections. I like effects projections but no so much with characters because they don't feel cohesive with the mostly static physical figures. Without the projections, you don't tend to notice the how static the figures are, but that characteristic sort of stands out when you see the fully animated projections at the same time. You're just introducing unforced disparities.
One further gripe: I want the queen's dungeon back in the queue. Turning it into a medieval teenage girl's room seems weird to me.
Of course, this is all based upon viewing one ride through. I'll take a look at a few more during the evening, and I also realize that my opinions could change when I have the chance to experience the attraction in person.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Which is what they did in Paris, along with some minor effects tweaks here and there. Still holds up 30 years later.
Zorro 2.0
Member
Another ride-through I'll have to look up on youtube tonight!
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I haven’t watched but I agree on Pinocchio. I don’t think Toad needs an update and I’d worry about them missing with that one as I’m not sure it lends itself to this kind of an update unless it’s just some minor stuff.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
They took out the forest. F that. they ruined it. and the person filming needs to learn to just film straight ahead instead of moving the camera frantically all over the place.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Getting the positive some praise first- the new ending scenes look decent. I'm also glad the cliff scene is still present in some capacity, I assumed correctly that they would be replacing it for the new ending. But i'm glad it was relocated and not cut outright.
Other than that, the changes were about what I had feared. Hideous colors on the new facade. The new dancing Snow White figure was an unnecessary alteration. Her previous spot on the staircase is now conspicuously empty, despite the fact that guest eyes are still directed more towards that point than the new figure (WDW's 94 refurb actually had a similar issue). The backside of the cottage removed most of the beautiful dark-lit murals (such as the distant castle with full moon and fireflies) and replaced it with less detailed and more brightly lit ones instead. That entire scene had its atmosphere ruined. The new projections are also very flat, especially the the one of Grumpy in the mine. The dungeon skeletons were all evicted. But the most awkward alteration is the magic mirror nonsensically crammed inside the moat tunnel formerly occupied by the Witch on her boat. I have no idea what they were thinking. Dark forest is gone too of course, very very lame but also what we knew would happen.
While I'm grateful some amount of the original cliff scene remained, it also looks sort of awkwardly cramped and a shame the Witch is no longer a physical figure trying to push the boulder. The new ending scene also wasted a lot of its own space and should have included the dwarfs waving goodbye like the other happy endings from WDW and Paris. But they're just absent entirely. The art quality on the background murals are also noticeably less impressive and detailed than the concept art suggested.
I very much hope they don't make these same alterations in Paris. That version is based directly on New Fantasyland 1983. And the rides are/were virtually identical besides minor changes in set dressing and props. The order of the scenes, track layout and even building sizes are the exact same (both even sharing vehicle storage with Pinocchio). The only change made to Paris is the unload area was moved slightly further ahead so they could fit in a proper ending. It didn't include the coffin scene, but it's IMO a better version of the Snow and Prince riding off. Better murals, forced perspective effects and included the dwarfs waving goodbye (only the faces on Snow and Prince look "off", which would be very easy to correct without destroying an otherwise great ride).
Other than that, the changes were about what I had feared. Hideous colors on the new facade. The new dancing Snow White figure was an unnecessary alteration. Her previous spot on the staircase is now conspicuously empty, despite the fact that guest eyes are still directed more towards that point than the new figure (WDW's 94 refurb actually had a similar issue). The backside of the cottage removed most of the beautiful dark-lit murals (such as the distant castle with full moon and fireflies) and replaced it with less detailed and more brightly lit ones instead. That entire scene had its atmosphere ruined. The new projections are also very flat, especially the the one of Grumpy in the mine. The dungeon skeletons were all evicted. But the most awkward alteration is the magic mirror nonsensically crammed inside the moat tunnel formerly occupied by the Witch on her boat. I have no idea what they were thinking. Dark forest is gone too of course, very very lame but also what we knew would happen.
While I'm grateful some amount of the original cliff scene remained, it also looks sort of awkwardly cramped and a shame the Witch is no longer a physical figure trying to push the boulder. The new ending scene also wasted a lot of its own space and should have included the dwarfs waving goodbye like the other happy endings from WDW and Paris. But they're just absent entirely. The art quality on the background murals are also noticeably less impressive and detailed than the concept art suggested.
I very much hope they don't make these same alterations in Paris. That version is based directly on New Fantasyland 1983. And the rides are/were virtually identical besides minor changes in set dressing and props. The order of the scenes, track layout and even building sizes are the exact same (both even sharing vehicle storage with Pinocchio). The only change made to Paris is the unload area was moved slightly further ahead so they could fit in a proper ending. It didn't include the coffin scene, but it's IMO a better version of the Snow and Prince riding off. Better murals, forced perspective effects and included the dwarfs waving goodbye (only the faces on Snow and Prince look "off", which would be very easy to correct without destroying an otherwise great ride).
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Giss Neric
Well-Known Member
Reading some of the comments here, I can conclude that some people just hate happiness and joy. Probably some just hate changes. Probably some are just dark and just wants to watch the world burn.
In my opinion, especially given the space they could work on, this was well done. It could use some track extension (unlikely cause they can't extend the showbuilding) to add a scene or two but overall I like it.
In my opinion, especially given the space they could work on, this was well done. It could use some track extension (unlikely cause they can't extend the showbuilding) to add a scene or two but overall I like it.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
No, people just have different opinions from yours.
dennis-in-ct
Well-Known Member
Why don’t they make rides like this anymore?
Well, the last time Disney made a ride like that here in the US parks was Winnie the Pooh and People seemed to rip the hell out of for some reason (because it wasn’t Tokyo’s Honey Hunt I guess). I personally really liked it both FL and Anaheim.
Snow White looks great!! The projection mapping touches are gorgeous and add a lot of Magic. Florida should take a lesson. *cough*Big Thunder*cough*
Little Green Men
Well-Known Member
It’s nice, I like the lighting effects. I’m used to the WDW version which was longer and not as rushed but they did a good job with the space they had.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
The one on the right should prove she has a personality by getting some tats on her arms at a local strip mall.
She has no personality, she's too generic looking.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Florida doesn't need charming little C Ticket rides. It only needs timeshares, corporate malls, and cloned E Tickets.
But seriously, I love that Disneyland has shepherded its huge fleet of all sorts of rides nicely into the 21st century. Disneyland has the most E Tickets of any Disney theme park anywhere, and I can't see that changing for at least another 25 years. Maybe more.
But Disneyland also has a huge roster of smaller B, C and D Ticket rides that add immensely to the overall park experience. Stuff like this update to Snow White is just the latest example.
There was a brief period in the mid to late 1990's when Disneyland was closing it's smaller rides with no replacements, as part of a strategy by Paul Pressler and his then-boss Judson Greene. Disneyland lost the Skyway, the Motorboat Cruise, and the Mike Fink Keelboats then. Thankfully that era stopped and was reversed quickly in the early 2000's. Pressler and Greene are not just long gone, they are no longer on the company's Christmas card list.
That they are plussing up rides like this now in the 2020's shows they learned their lesson, and thankfully with only a few casualties.
BayouShack
Well-Known Member
Pooh isn’t exactly a “ride like” Snow. Pooh is like Indiana Jones if all the sets were 2D flats: it has the absurd scale of Indiana Jones with the old school design of Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work.
I’m pretty sure the system does share a lot of the design features with the other EMV ride systems.
Charm was certainly sacrificed for capacity. The set design on the original busbar version isn’t bad, but it wasn’t properly adapted and rescaled for those massive cars.
Not sure what they were thinking!
I’ve been on all 3 variations of the ride and the DL version turned out all soft and misshapen. There’s nothing wrong with the other busbar versions of the ride, because those are actually built like the classic dark rides. But the Disneyland version is just scenes in one long room that blend into one another.
Compare POVs of the Disneyland versus WDW/HKDL/SHDL versions. Completely different rides!
Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't Monsters Inc. Mike and Sully to the Rescue be the last true one (even if the ride system and track is reused from Superstar Limo)
Though IMO, the last one that really captured the spirit and feel of the Fantasyland dark rides in the US was Roger Rabbit Car-toon Spin.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Disneyland's Pooh is the weakest of the three. And that's not saying much because Florida's version ain't that great.
Only Tokyo has an impressive Pooh ride, and it's hugely successful at storytelling and being immersive (before Chapek sullied that otherwise fine adjective).
Shoehorning the Pooh ride into the massive double-theater Country Bear Jamboree seems to have been it's downfall. The scale is so big, but they have nothing to do but go in a big U-shaped circuit through that building. You can literally tell you are just going to the back of the building and then making a 180 degree turn and heading back out. That's not good design. It fails.