Disneyland: The AP issue

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

I've seen this topic come up in multiple threads over the years, and it always seems worthy of its own discussion.

So, without causing other threads to derail further (sorry @GiveMeTheMusic), let's use this to have at it.

I think overall, people are predominantly viewing AP ownership as the ignored thorn in Disney's side. They've tried raising prices, but the crowds don't lie.

What can be done? What should be done? Will Disney ever do anything about it?

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Wipe them out. All of them.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I've seen this topic come up in multiple threads over the years, and it always seems worthy of its own discussion.

So, without causing other threads to derail further (sorry @GiveMeTheMusic), let's use this to have at it.

I think overall, people are predominantly viewing AP ownership as the ignored thorn in Disney's side. They've tried raising prices, but the crowds don't lie.

What can be done? What should be done? Will Disney ever do anything about it?

The only way to fix the problem is stop using monthly payment plans. How many $849 APs do you think they'd sell if you had to pay it all at once? Not nearly as many.

Of course they won't do that, because that would stop a tremendous source of monthly income to which TDA has become addicted. They know that the current AP pricing can't be supported without the monthly payment option.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Wipe them out. All of them.

I can't see Disney wiping out all that income...but as an extreme solution, that's probably the best one.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

The only way to fix the problem is stop using monthly payment plans. How many $849 APs do you think they'd sell if you had to pay it all at once? Not nearly as many.

Of course they won't do that, because that would stop a tremendous source of monthly income to which TDA has become addicted. They know that the current AP pricing can't be supported without the monthly payment option.

Not nearly as many...or people would just put them on credit cards and worry about the payments to their bank instead of to Disney.

And I think Disney is also fearful of ing off that huge contingent of their fanbase. It would further the narrative that Disney only caters to the rich.

 

[Disney Irish]

I've seen this discussed on many forums and many threads over the years.

To be clear, there isn't an AP issue. Disney has as many APs as they want. When it gets out of hand with a specific pass they stop offering it like they did with the SoCal passes in recent years. Or they split a pass into multiple like they did with the Premium into Signature. Then they reintroduce them when they the level gets too low.

The only group that is bothered by APs specifically are us in the fandom. As we use APs as a scapegoat for things we don't like such as the crowds and up-charge events. And the ironic thing is a majority of us in the fandom are APs. So we contribute to our own perceived issue.

Now this isn't to say the program couldn't be changed. But overall I doubt that Disney will ever see APs as an issue.

 

[mickEblu]

The only way to fix the problem is stop using monthly payment plans. How many $849 APs do you think they'd sell if you had to pay it all at once? Not nearly as many.

Of course they won't do that, because that would stop a tremendous source of monthly income to which TDA has become addicted. They know that the current AP pricing can't be supported without the monthly payment option.

I don't disagree but I think you used the wrong example. The Signature APs aren't really the ones clogging up the parks right? The solution would probably require eliminating monthly payment plans and getting rid of the So Cal tiers. The So Cal APs are pretty affordable, even without monthly payment plans. Anyway, this is all a solution Disney wants no part of. Lol

 

[mickEblu]

I've seen this discussed on many forums and many threads over the years.

To be clear, there isn't an AP issue. Disney has as many APs as they want. When it gets out of hand with a specific pass they stop offering it like they did with the SoCal passes in recent years. Or they split a pass into multiple like they did with the Premium into Signature. Then they reintroduce them when they the level gets too low.

The only group that is bothered by APs specifically are us in the fandom. As we use APs as a scapegoat for things we don't like such as the crowds and up-charge events. And the ironic thing is a majority of us in the fandom are APs. So we contribute to our own perceived issue.

Now this isn't to say the program couldn't be changed. But overall I doubt that Disney will ever see APs as an issue.

I think the key words are... not an issue (to Disney) YET. The parks certainly can't keep up with the current rise in attendance. They don't have the infrastructure. Eventually something will need to be done. And I agree it's not JUST an AP issue. I mean this is still Southern California. It's still Disneyland and a huge tourist draw but there is a reason why triple blackout days are "serene."

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Something like this being the only option for an AP seems fair:

:

 

[Disney Irish]

I think they key words are... not an issue (to Disney) YET. The parks certainly can't l keep up with the current attendance rise. They don't have the infrastructure. Eventually something will need to be done. And I agree it's not JUST an AP issue. I mean this is still Southern California. It's still Disneyland and a huge tourist draw but there is a reason why triple blackout days are "serene."

What I see them doing is discontinuing all the SoCal passes. And then leave the upper Deluxe and Signature passes.

But again to Disney there isn't an issue. Remember the tourist industry is tied to the economy, it will go down again, its just the way things work. So its a source of constant income when the tourists don't come. And extra income when the tourists do come.

 

[westie]

As an AP'er price is not an issue. Maybe that one up there^^^^. The AP is a deal and the benefits i.e. discounts make it better. Block out dates don't matter. All the things the complainers want they will never get. Disney won't cut crowds or prices. What will Disney do? the will keep pushing prices till the bough breaks and then, only then when attendance drops will they figure something else out. But yeah, go ahead, blame the AP'ers because we are a secret club and we conspire against you and we all converge on the park the days we know you will be there. Sheesh!

 

[mickEblu]

As an AP'er price is not an issue. Maybe that one up there^^^^. The AP is a deal and the benefits i.e. discounts make it better. Block out dates don't matter. All the things the complainers want they will never get. Disney won't cut crowds or prices. What will Disney do? the will keep pushing prices till the bough breaks and then, only then when attendance drops will they figure something else out. But yeah, go ahead, blame the AP'ers because we are a secret club and we conspire against you and we all converge on the park the days we know you will be there. Sheesh!

To be clear I'm an AP and I don't blame the APs for taking advantage of the value of annual passes or the payment plans. With that said, it's hard to turn a blind eye to the fact that the resort doesn't have the infrastructure for the #s of people walking through the gates and that it's starting to diminish the experience. Personally, I usually have a good time because I pick the right days (most people don't have the knowledge or ability to cherry pick certain days), appreciate time at the park/ with my family and away from the office. With that said, my patience is tested multiple times on pretty much every visit.

Anyway it's Disneys issue to solve, not those taking advantage of it. I would be all for APs with capped visits. It's the only real solution I see. Disney will not turn away money. Prices could stay similar to what they are currently. The sacrifice will have to be on the guests end in the # of visits. Like I've said many times before- quality over quantity for me. A tier with around 15 visits would be perfect for me. I'd be willing to give up 5 visits if it meant the other 10 would be more enjoyable. But that may not work for everyone. Then again, I don't have the data. This is all based on the assumption that it is the APs visiting the parks multiple times a week that are clogging up the park. I would love to know what % of APs do that.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I don't think eliminating the So Cal AP's is the answer. They were put in place to shift locals to less crowded days of the week. What they need to do is tweak them. Perhaps eliminating one of the So Cal passes and then blackout Friday's and Sunday's. They can only go Monday through Thursday when there are fewer tourists in town. There is also limited nighttime entertainment during the week.

I also think they need to address the what I would call the hyper user. We aren't talking thousands, but probably a few hundred people that go more than once per week.

As much as some people want to blame AP's for everything, they aren't going anywhere. Disney is addicted to the consistent income. They just need to tweak it and encourage locals to going during non peak times as much as possible.

 

[mickEblu]

I don't think eliminating the So Cal AP's is the answer. They were put in place to shift locals to less crowded days of the week. What they need to do is tweak them. Perhaps eliminating one of the So Cal passes and then blackout Friday's and Sunday's. They can only go Monday through Thursday when there are fewer tourists in town. There is also limited nighttime entertainment during the week.

I also think they need to address the what I would call the hyper user. We aren't talking thousands, but probably a few hundred people that go more than once per week.

As much as some people want to blame AP's for everything, they aren't going anywhere. Disney is addicted to the consistent income. They just need to tweak it and encourage locals to going during non peak times as much as possible.

Not a bad idea but that would just make Monday thru Thursday's more unbearable.

 

[drizgirl]

It will be interesting to see how they manage the APs when SWL opens.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Common sense would dictate that you only sell the number of tickets that allows for reasonable guest safety and comfort. You wouldn't sell 150 tickets to a show in a theater than can only seat 100, yet that is exactly what Disney is doing.

 

[Antaundra]

Common sense would dictate that you only sell the number of tickets that allows for reasonable guest safety and comfort. You wouldn't sell 150 tickets to a show in a theater than can only seat 100, yet that is exactly what Disney is doing.

Actually hit Broadway shows oversell their theaters all the time. When all the seats are sold out they sell standing room tickets and pack in as many people as the fire marshal will allow.

 

[Disney Irish]

Common sense would dictate that you only sell the number of tickets that allows for reasonable guest safety and comfort. You wouldn't sell 150 tickets to a show in a theater than can only seat 100, yet that is exactly what Disney is doing.

That would be a good analogy if Disney knew the exact number of tickets sold versus the exact number of guests coming each day. But since guests coming in don't always buy tickets directly from Disney and with APs its hard to limit the number sold.

You could say the reverse, only allow a certain number of people in. However how fair is it to have someone who bought day tickets for that once in a lifetime vacation be blocked.

You could limit the number of APs in daily, but then you'd get a revolt. Although to some that might not be a bad thing.

So there isn't a perfect answer to the crowding issue. And again Disney doesn't see it as a huge issue to have a crowded park, they see more money. Less guests means less money in their minds. So they'd have to find a way to keep the same amount of revenue is there are less guests. Which means more up-charge events, more increases on prices across the resort.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I'm an AP and have clearly taken advantage of the incredible value. That being said, I've been arguing for years that the passes are too cheap. You can go almost every day of the year for the price of vacationing for a week. Correct? That's ridiculous.

I love going to Disney too, but I fear this emerging culture of APs is destroying the experience. You have people just showing up after work, going for dinner, filming construction from the parking deck, wearing sleeveless denim and going in The Haunted Mansion over and over again. Walt must be rolling in his cryogenic tube.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Actually hit Broadway shows oversell their theaters all the time. When all the seats are sold out they sell standing room tickets and pack in as many people as the fire marshal will allow.

Been to lots of hit theater plays, operas, symphonies, and ballets in many cities, including San Francisco, New York, Barcelona and London, and I've never once witnessed people standing in the aisles to watch a show.