'Disneyland feels classist now' - article LA Times

[NickMaio]

I think the key words in the article title are "feels" and "now." The perks that have been either eliminated or put behind a paywall are no longer available to people who cannot afford to pay the extra cost. And it's wrong.

My family hasn't gone back to either coast's Disney parks since 2019 for a variety of reasons, but one of the biggest ones is just cost. And another one is quality of the product. I don't see LL or G+ as passable replacements for the original Fastpass. My family frequently used Evening Extra Magic Hours, which are now only available if you stay in Deluxe resorts that my family can't afford. Our transportation to/from the airport is now on our own dime, which doesn't work so well for a large group like my family.

Sure, there have always been perks for the rich at the parks. But there were also perks for middle-class folks too. And now, my niece and nephews won't grow up at the parks like I did. And I miss going there, too.

Thank you.....
Yes that is the point.
There has been such an economic shift - - - just look at the new stores at Springs! $5000 handbags never would have been sold in Downtown disney.
Even when you just paid for a ticket price - or stayed at a value resort - - you still had that special feeling. That your patronage was appreciated with various perks that you did not need to pay for. Perks that the other parks made their guests pay for.
It made Disney extra special. It added to that bubble affect.

Not so much anymore - - - It's obvious and very disconcerting.
We have been Disney visitors for over 4 decades as a family. My parents started taking me at a very young age. We would go yearly.
We also live over 1800 miles away and drive - so this should say something about our love for the parks. My wife and I started taking our little guys before the pandemic. Our yearly trips will not be yearly anymore. We can definitely afford it. The quality and nickel/diming of customers really leaves a sour taste not easily shaken off.

Sadly - I truly believe, that WDW will start to loose its annual out of state/country visitors. Little by little - with a very large looming recession they should really start now to win these customers back.
Lay off on all of these paid add ons and start to include something special for every tier of guest. Just getting through the gate is definitely not as special as it once was.

 

[NickMaio]

I wonder Empress how much this truly affects (lol or is it effects) guest experiences. I mean the basic problem is overcrowding, no doubt about it but today's travelers and visitors are pretty savvy. pretty much all types of travel are now segregate according to money spent.

Airlines absolutely are from the time you purchase your ticket. You can pre board for an extra fee, pick your favorite seat, for an extra fee and of course now they have the "premium economy" lol.
Movie theaters near me have now categorized the seats, we have "premium seating" middle rows of the theater with supposedly extra leg room. extra fee.

My annoyance comes from the fact, all these things don't remotely solve the problem, which of course too many folks and not enough people eating attractions.

In the past when you mentioned Disney customer service and experience did the airlines/movie theatres ever enter into your mind?

There was a reason for this. A Disney vacation used to be, and I'm sure is still for many, an emotional experience you talked about for months after. The current management is continually chipping away at this. Coming up with another way to stratify the guest experience with one's wallet.

WDW was such an excellence machine in every aspect. Think about it - - Magic Express - Fast Pass+ - Ride maintenance - All resort perks EMH.
The moment you landed or checked into a WDW resort you felt taken care of and special, in many ways.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I wonder Empress how much this truly affects (lol or is it effects) guest experiences. I mean the basic problem is overcrowding, no doubt about it but today's travelers and visitors are pretty savvy. pretty much all types of travel are now segregate according to money spent.

Airlines absolutely are from the time you purchase your ticket. You can pre board for an extra fee, pick your favorite seat, for an extra fee and of course now they have the "premium economy" lol.
Movie theaters near me have now categorized the seats, we have "premium seating" middle rows of the theater with supposedly extra leg room. extra fee.

My annoyance comes from the fact, all these things don't remotely solve the problem, which of course too many folks and not enough people eating attractions.

You are right that one way or another the guest experience will be severely affected by the sheer crushing fact of demand for Disney parks grossly outweighing supply.

But between excessive lines, outrages prices, and an in-your-face tiered experience, I'll pick the first two.

I wouldn't want a lightning lane experience even if I got it for free and I was the one benefitting from it. I find it that antithetical to the Disney experience. A Disney park ought to be egalitarian, unhampered by real world concerns, non-aggressive, positive, embracing. Classic mid-century American values, of which DL and WDW are very products.

 

[5thGenTexan]

My first trip was 1985 I think and I was 12 or 13. We didn't stay in a resort hotel, or a hotel anywhere near WDW. We stayed at what is now Colonial Motel in 192, east of St Cloud. Google tells me its a 54 minute drive. We packed the trunk with food to cook in the kitchenette there. My mother bought our WDW tickets through the mail, actually from Disney, but it was a promotion where you got a "free camera" with purchase. She purchased 1 adult and 1 child ticket on two separate orders so we got two "free cameras". All that and it was still a tough trip to finance. There were no credit cards, my mother had the trip budgeted out and cash in envelopes to take.

Just my WDW experience over time makes me kinda chuckle at "how it used to be when it was just Fastpass and it was free" My trips were 1985, 1987, and 1992. We did have one MK day in 2013 as part of a shore excursion on DCL. For the most part my time in the parks were all get in line for a ride and stand there and wait till it was your turn. There was no fastpass at all. The 1985 trip was during the 4th of July week and it was really busy even then. ALL the lines were long.

We are going in June. First time to stay at a resort hotel. First time to experience LL and Genie +. First time to have reservations at a sit down restaurant inside a WDW park. I dont know yet if we will buy Genie+ or just get to the parks early and do what we can do. I dont know if any LLs will be purchased. I am leaning towards no right now, but who can say.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

My first trip was 1985 I think and I was 12 or 13. We didn't stay in a resort hotel, or a hotel anywhere near WDW. We stayed at what is now Colonial Motel in 192, east of St Cloud. Google tells me its a 54 minute drive. We packed the trunk with food to cook in the kitchenette there. My mother bought our WDW tickets through the mail, actually from Disney, but it was a promotion where you got a "free camera" with purchase. She purchased 1 adult and 1 child ticket on two separate orders so we got two "free cameras". All that and it was still a tough trip to finance. There were no credit cards, my mother had the trip budgeted out and cash in envelopes to take.

Just my WDW experience over time makes me kinda chuckle at "how it used to be when it was just Fastpass and it was free" My trips were 1985, 1987, and 1992. We did have one MK day in 2013 as part of a shore excursion on DCL. For the most part my time in the parks were all get in line for a ride and stand there and wait till it was your turn. There was no fastpass at all. The 1985 trip was during the 4th of July week and it was really busy even then. ALL the lines were long.

We are going in June. First time to stay at a resort hotel. First time to experience LL and Genie +. First time to have reservations at a sit down restaurant inside a WDW park. I dont know yet if we will buy Genie+ or just get to the parks early and do what we can do. I dont know if any LLs will be purchased. I am leaning towards no right now, but who can say.

We went in the 70's the first time, and it was the same. Everyone was equal and everyone decided if they wanted to stay in line or not. No fast passes or D+. The lines moved really well and there was no line jumping noted. We actually stayed off site for our first time too, and we stayed at a themed hotel with a train ride and unique rooms for the kids. I just can't remember the name and it is now another hotel anyway.

We hopped to whatever park we wanted to and when we wanted to. I think that strategy evens out the crowds better than trying to do whatever it is they say they are doing now? It was more enjoyable, that's for sure. Good memories

 

[Ayla]

We went in the 70's the first time, and it was the same. Everyone was equal and everyone decided if they wanted to stay in line or not. No fast passes or D+. The lines moved really well and there was no line jumping noted. We actually stayed off site for our first time too, and we stayed at a themed hotel with a train ride and unique rooms for the kids. I just can't remember the name and it is now another hotel anyway.

We hopped to whatever park we wanted to and when we wanted to. I think that strategy evens out the crowds better than trying to do whatever it is they say they are doing now? It was more enjoyable, that's for sure. Good memories

There was only MK in the 70's.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

There was only MK in the 70's.

No, there wasn't. We went in l977 for the first time. Maybe it was like that in the beginning, but I remember we went to other parks. My memory is not great anymore, but I do know that we did go to other parks. If it was only the MK, I would have remembered it.
My parents went the first year WDW opened and it was only the MK at that time. Maybe that's what you remarked on.

 

[DLR92]

Yes it does feel more classist now that everything has to be monetize for “better”experience.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

No, there wasn't. We went in l977 for the first time. Maybe it was like that in the beginning, but I remember we went to other parks.

Epcot didn’t open until 1982 but maybe you went to the resorts and discovery island?

 

[SteveAZee]

Epcot didn’t open until 1982 but maybe you went to the resorts and discovery island?

Or Six Gun Territory?

Six Gun Territory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Or Six Gun Territory?

Six Gun Territory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well if we leave Disney property then Sea World, Busch Gardens and Cypress Gardens would also be possibilities.

 

[Weather_Lady]

I can only speak to WDW (having visited DL only once), but as far as that place, the "classist" feel for me began with the elimination of traditional EMH and F/F+, and the introduction of G+/ILL.

It used to be that the "class divisions" between Disney guests were largely invisible, and the parks seemed to hold the same promise for everyone. Unless you were an offsite guest and went to a park with EMH before rope drop, you hardly ever had to see, or feel diminished by, other guests getting treated differently from you. In fact, you had no idea where anyone else was staying, and unless you went out of your way to peer into restaurants and shops, had no reason to know who was paying more to eat than you were, or who was spending more on souvenirs. If during the days of FP and FP+ you ended up in standby while others passed you by, who cared? You knew that your ticket entitled you to all the same privileges as those people, and if some of them got to book their FP+ before you had or got a couple extra, you had no way of knowing that, and no reason to care. Unless you deliberately went looking for it, there was little to tell you that other guests had it better.

Now, those class divisions and disparate treatment are continually rubbed in your face. If you're staying offsite, it doesn't matter what park you visit in the morning: you'll be herded away with the rest of the groundlings, while the "haves" stroll by you, until it's your turn for the leftovers. All day, at almost every attraction you visit, unless you paid extra for G+ and ILL, you'll watch those same "haves" be shuffled ahead of you in line, a continual reminder that you are quite literally less valuable a guest than they are. I believe Disney intends these feelings of degradation and frustration (feelings you are paying $100+/day for Disney to give you -- only heightening the shame!) to entice you to buy your way out of it. Instead, I think it only breeds simmering resentment against Disney itself.

I don't mean to be overly dramatic -- and I've generally been on the "haves" side of this equation, but I think Disney has made a horrible optics blunder by lifting the curtain in this way, and destroyed the priceless goodwill of its fans. Disney used to at least try to make guests feel like they were all equally valued, and like they all had access to the same kind of magic in the parks, just by buying a ticket (even if that wasn't the reality). Now that they've dropped that pretense, Disney feels like just any other money-grubbing amusement park -- a tarted-up carnival mouse with a sophisticated eye for spotting the big spenders in the crowd of paying guests, and loudly welcoming them into a special V.I.P. tent, for a show nobody else ever gets to see.

 

[Ayla]

No, there wasn't. We went in l977 for the first time. Maybe it was like that in the beginning, but I remember we went to other parks. My memory is not great anymore, but I do know that we did go to other parks. If it was only the MK, I would have remembered it.
My parents went the first year WDW opened and it was only the MK at that time. Maybe that's what you remarked on.

LOL No. Epcot didn't open until 1982, DHS was 1989 and Animal Kingdom was 1998...so yes, it was only MK in 1977.

 

[SteveAZee]

I can only speak to WDW (having visited DL only once), but as far as that place, the "classist" feel for me began with the elimination of traditional EMH and F/F+, and the introduction of G+/ILL.

It used to be that the "class divisions" between Disney guests were largely invisible, and the parks seemed to hold the same promise for everyone. Unless you were an offsite guest and went to a park with EMH before rope drop, you hardly ever had to see, or feel diminished by, other guests getting treated differently from you. In fact, you had no idea where anyone else was staying, and unless you went out of your way to peer into restaurants and shops, had no reason to know who was paying more to eat than you were, or who was spending more on souvenirs. If during the days of FP and FP+ you ended up in standby while others passed you by, who cared? You knew that your ticket entitled you to all the same privileges as those people, and if some of them got to book their FP+ before you had or got a couple extra, you had no way of knowing that, and no reason to care. Unless you deliberately went looking for it, there was little to tell you that other guests had it better.

Now, those class divisions and disparate treatment are continually rubbed in your face. If you're staying offsite, it doesn't matter what park you visit in the morning: you'll be herded away with the rest of the groundlings, while the "haves" stroll by you, until it's your turn for the leftovers. All day, at almost every attraction you visit, unless you paid extra for G+ and ILL, you'll watch those same "haves" be shuffled ahead of you in line, a continual reminder that you are quite literally less valuable a guest than they are. I believe Disney intends these feelings of degradation and frustration (feelings you are paying $100+/day for Disney to give you -- only heightening the shame!) to entice you to buy your way out of it. Instead, I think it only breeds simmering resentment against Disney itself.

I don't mean to be overly dramatic -- and I've generally been on the "haves" side of this equation, but I think Disney has made a horrible optics blunder by lifting the curtain in this way, and destroyed the priceless goodwill of its fans. Disney used to at least try to make guests feel like they were all equally valued, and like they all had access to the same kind of magic in the parks, just by buying a ticket (even if that wasn't the reality). Now that they've dropped that pretense, Disney feels like just any other money-grubbing amusement park -- a tarted-up carnival mouse with a sophisticated eye for spotting the big spenders in the crowd of paying guests, and loudly welcoming them into a special V.I.P. tent, for a show nobody else ever gets to see.

On the one hand, it does feel like a dramatic shift... as you say 'lifting the curtain' exposing the have/have not disparity. That said, it's also true (and you mention it) that it's always been there (going back to shelling out for a fistful of "E" tickets) but it's been subtle and not 'in your face' as it is now. I'm guessing that within Disney the creep was subtle... how much more can they get out of each guest, particularly those with lots of discretionary income, to increase profits? I think the gatekeeper(s) were either asleep at the wheel, laid off, or were outnumbered by the number crunchers, so they crossed a line, a BIG line, and people noticed and have been complaining about it ever since.

I think Bob 3.0 has recognized that. Not sure what he's really going to do about it (hopefully more than just rolling back parking fees) but who knows... perhaps acknowledging it is a good first step. He'll need to find a solution that feels more egalitarian but also contains the crowds and yet sustains the current river of profits that the parks are generating.

Is it better to dramatically raise the prices for everyone, or find a way to only get extra revenue from those who can afford it? If the latter, what can you give them in trade for their cash? It the past it was better meals, better hotel accommodations, cooler transportation. Now that's also happening in the parks in ways more blatant than before... what would you do, and how do you do it while keeping the crowds tolerable and the profits flowing?

 

[Tuvalu]

LOL No. Epcot didn't open until 1982, DHS was 1989 and Animal Kingdom was 1998...so yes, it was only MK in 1977.

River Country opened in 1976 and Discovery Island opened in 1974. Perhaps @Minnesota disney fan was referring to these. Admission was required for both of those parks and guests were able to buy combo tickets which included MK.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I can only speak to WDW (having visited DL only once), but as far as that place, the "classist" feel for me began with the elimination of traditional EMH and F/F+, and the introduction of G+/ILL.

It used to be that the "class divisions" between Disney guests were largely invisible, and the parks seemed to hold the same promise for everyone. Unless you were an offsite guest and went to a park with EMH before rope drop, you hardly ever had to see, or feel diminished by, other guests getting treated differently from you. In fact, you had no idea where anyone else was staying, and unless you went out of your way to peer into restaurants and shops, had no reason to know who was paying more to eat than you were, or who was spending more on souvenirs.

My visits began in the 70's. The monorail from the TTC to MK has always gone right through the Contemporary with a view of the Poly. I was always VERY aware that our little motel was NOT the Contemporary or the Poly. My family cracked jokes about our motel.

We sometimes ate at the Contemporary back when the 4th floor was a cafeteria. I also remember when Steak 71 was a quick serve. It used to smell terrible in there. That was back when burgers were often kept warm in steam trays. With no windows and not much ventilation, it always smelled of steamed beef and stale fry grease.

In the parks, I was also aware that we never got to eat in the castle. The castle has always been highly visible in MK. Back then, Cindy's Royal Table was more visible than it is today. I remember my dad asking about eating there, and his reaction to the price, "No Way!" In the parks, we often ate steam-tray burgers and soggy fries from one of the quick serve places.

Mind, we were only ever allowed to drink tap water or water-fountain* water most of the time. Mmmm! Warm, unfiltered FL water foutain water from the 1970's! The memory of THAT taste will forever be etched in my mind. (* sometimes called a 'bubbler.")

My mom packed tinny-tasting canned orange juice, and on some trips, Tang. And the tiny, tinny orange juice, that sat in the HOT car all day, was heavily rationed. If we complained about drinking FL water, my mom would scoop some Tang from a plastic bag in her purse. Embarrassing, and just as unappetizing!

I was always aware WDW was stratified. The gift shops have always brimmed with merchandise that we could not buy. I was allowed to buy 1 toy. Mind, I even had a paid job delivering newspapers when I was only about 5 years old.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Now as always I state that I'm a young disneyphile, I didn't go during what I call was the "golden" age so I can't recall this era where everyone got the same perks.

I'm old and it was better.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

River Country opened in 1976 and Discovery Island opened in 1974. Perhaps @Minnesota disney fan was referring to these. Admission was required for both of those parks and guests were able to buy combo tickets which included MK.

Yep, that's what I meant. Thanks Tuvalu
My memory isn't the best lately, and with so many disney trips over the years they all tend to blend together, LOL.

 

[iamgroot61]

Well, this has probably been discussed ad nauseum by now, but I wanted to comment again after visiting a couple of the parks last weekend. My GF and I visited with my son and his GF. We had reservations at AK and MK and hopped on both days (to EPCOT and HS, respectively, we're newly minted passholders). In my first comment on this thread, I complained that the Genie+ and individual LL costs definitely feel classist to me, especially when I'm sitting in a standby queue watching a seemingly endless parade of G+ people marching past. Admittedly, I didn't fully understand how the G+ and LL work, and still don't. LOL! I paid for both G+ to gain access to the attractions that offer LL and paid the per-ride LL fee once to get on the new Tron coaster. I paid for our whole party and trust me, shelling out an additional $160 after park admission and the high costs of everything else (even with AP discounts) stung. But having said that, we rode everything we wanted to and capped off our last day in the parks with Tron (which is a most excellent ride!). I still disagree with having to pay to ride rides when I have already paid to ride rides, but if I can afford to do it in order to maximize my park visit, I will.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

I paid for our whole party and trust me, shelling out an additional $160 after park admission and the high costs of everything else (even with AP discounts) stung. But having said that, we rode everything we wanted to and capped off our last day in the parks with Tron (which is a most excellent ride!). I still disagree with having to pay to ride rides when I have already paid to ride rides, but if I can afford to do it in order to maximize my park visit, I will.

The problem I have is that in the old system, you could still ride everything you wanted to, and you didn't have to pay an extra $160. I don't want to pay extra to maximize my park visit now when I didn't have to before. It's such a blatant cash grab.