Disney World Low Attendance Paradox

[Kingoglow]

Things to consider that affect attendance:
1) several price increases within a 12 month period (tickets, APs, parking, hotel rates, food, drinks, f'ing $200 lightsabers)
2) lots of hype building up to the opening of SWGE which leads to predictions of insane crowds which, in turn, causes lots of people to delay trips.
3) Two attractions were promised - only one is ready at the open which causes people to delay trips until the land is fully open
4) Lots of reviews out in YouTube negatively covering SWGE cause a lot of people to hold off
5) The promise of a SW themed hotel which is also not ready for the land opening and will cause a lot of people to hold off
6) 50th anniversary of WDW is in 2 years, causing people to hold off

There just isn't a lot of reasons to go wait in the Florida sun for a Star Wars land without Luke, Leia, Vader or Yoda.

 

[DuckTalesWooHoo1987]

Guests may care about tracking attendance. Disney cares about tracking revenue. If they can make more money with fewer customers, that is a win.

That is actually a win WIN. I would love for things to go back to how they were in the "old times", as my 8 year old calls it, when crowds were WAAAAAAAAAAY less than they are now just 10 years ago. Probably a pipe dream but still. I can honestly say, for myself, that I'm not even that pumped about SWGE and I consider myself a huge Star Wars fan. I just can't handle motion sim rides anymore and that's what the Falcon ride at least is. I'm a Disney "lifer" I guess you'd say. I'm a DVC member and AP holder and am always gonna be going there regardless so I would love for things to go back to the days of manageable crowd levels and extra magic hours that felt like you actually got to do everything you wanted to do instead of just more waiting in huge lines that you had already experienced all day to begin with. A couple of years ago we were getting on Test Track during EMH and there were some other DVC members behind us in line and they were talking about how EMH are even crazy now and nothing like they used to be and we got to talking about how crowd levels have just skyrocketed in the past 10 years or so. But with Disney throwing up hotel after hotel and new DVC resort after new DVC resort I honestly see no end in sight myself. I really don't understand what has caused such a boom in this era and maybe it is the economy doing well but DANG! Us old timers all long to go back to the days of manageable waits spread throughout the park. Or maybe it's just me?

 

[monothingie]

So who becomes the fall guy/gal to scapegoat the problems on? WDI? P&R? Lucasfilm?

 

[cosmicgirl]

It’s funny because it sounds like they are going to raise prices again. I just don’t understand why they feel the need to constantly raise prices. It’s not like they are losing money.

Total revenue can still be higher with lower visitor numbers and higher prices. Visitor numbers aren't everything but we can't see what people are spending.

 

[DuckTalesWooHoo1987]

Do you think they are starting to price people out or are people just waiting for Star Wars to open?

My stepbrother called me a couple of days ago and literally was wanting me to get him my Family and Friends DVC discount just because he is dying to see SWGE. So, I know of at least one case, where someone is waiting for it to open. He's going in Feb of next year so it should all be up and running by then. Do they actually have a timeframe for full functionality yet?

 

[huwar18]

Total revenue can still be higher with lower visitor numbers and higher prices. Visitor numbers aren't everything but we can't see what people are spending.

Exactly, that’s how they justify raising prices. If they price people out, they can thin crowds.

 

[xdan0920]

Guests may care about tracking attendance. Disney cares about tracking revenue. If they can make more money with fewer customers, that is a win.

It’s not, but ok.

 

[cosmicgirl]

Exactly, that’s how they justify raising prices. If they price people out, they can thin crowds.

They may be trying to segment the market the way airlines do: try to get everyone to pay the maximum they're willing to pay and still fill the plane.

 

[DuckTalesWooHoo1987]

Exactly, that’s how they justify raising prices. If they price people out, they can thin crowds.

I've just never been able to buy the theory that ANY business tries to keep customers out. I honestly don't think the powers that be at Disney want less people. I think they would be fine if they started to having to put butter on the turnstiles just to squeeze more guests through. I've wondered if their operating costs haven't gotten considerably more since they had to give a bigger raise to the CM's. Not that I'm against the CM's getting a raise but just that maybe Disney is passing the raise on to the consumer and also using the higher prices to pay for all the new projects. I mean look at how much Disneyworld has grown in just the last 10 years. New Fantasyland, Disney Springs, New hotels, Gondolas, New DVC resorts, Minnie Vans, Pandora, Toy Story Land, SWGE, and a major EPCOT expansion as we speak. All of that equals more money.

 

[Kingoglow]

I am getting less and less excited about Star Wars Land till Rise of Resistance opens. May cancels my hotels for the opening in Sept.

Will you make another trip to experience the hotel? Most of my friends (Star Wars fans) will just hold off until Disney finishes the whole project.

 

[HauntedPirate]

It’s funny because it sounds like they are going to raise prices again. I just don’t understand why they feel the need to constantly raise prices. It’s not like they are losing money.

There are 3 things in play here around the price increases, all related to DIS stock price and stock analysts and large shareholders (like Bob Iger):

1. Quarterly profits
2. Quarterly profits
3. Quarterly profits

They absolutely want the parks full and they absolutely want to charge those customers as much as possible. That's why per-guest-spending is a focus and is mentioned in every quarterly report these days.

Edit: The only reason they would want fewer people in the parks, but at much higher prices per person so as to maintain PGS levels, is so that they could staff less and reduce operating costs.

 

[monothingie]

Total revenue can still be higher with lower visitor numbers and higher prices. Visitor numbers aren't everything but we can't see what people are spending.

Exactly, that’s how they justify raising prices. If they price people out, they can thin crowds.

Every time I hear this as a justification for the price increases, I chuckle.

If this is the case, why the serious concern about decreasing attendance trickling out from Orlando and Anaheim? Why would Disney provide any discounts or promotions at all? If everyone paid rack rate and there was no free dining or ticket promotions, guest spending would certainly increase and crowds would thin right?

No matter what spin is put on having higher prices and lower attendance, Disney wants the parks jammed packed all the time. Empty parks are bad business. SWGE in DLR is a perfect example of them raising prices, restricting access and having empty parks as a result, and now they're going crazy over it.

 

[drizgirl]

Every time I hear this as a justification for the price increases, I chuckle.

If this is the case, why the serious concern about decreasing attendance trickling out from Orlando and Anaheim? Why would Disney provide any discounts or promotions at all? If everyone paid rack rate and there was no free dining or ticket promotions, guest spending would certainly increase and crowds would thin right?

No matter what spin is put on having higher prices and lower attendance, Disney wants the parks jammed packed all the time. Empty parks are bad business. SWGE in DLR is a perfect example of them raising prices, restricting access and having empty parks as a result, and now they're going crazy over it.

Indeed! If lower crowds were the goal, why the $99 "bring a friend" promo this summer? Why the new room discount?

 

[huwar18]

Indeed! If lower crowds were the goal, why the $99 "bring a friend" promo this summer? Why the new room discount?

I would say because numbers are lower than they want them to be. It’s just a guess on my part. I am just spit balling ideas. Crowd control is part of the theme park game. An easy way to control crowds is the flex pricing and price increase.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

a) Prices have gotten redonkulous
b) Weather is hotter than Hades
c) We're on the edge of a yuge recession
d) Word is out on the crowding and cost control measures
e) SW:GE got underwhelming reviews and people who would have booked are holding off until RotR opens

f) Construction; construction everywhere

 

[monothingie]

I would say because numbers are lower than they want them to be. It’s just a guess on my part. I am just spit balling ideas. Crowd control is part of the theme park game. An easy way to control crowds is the flex pricing and price increase.

A perfect example of why this does't hold water is at the holiday parties.

Every year the prices go up and up, along with the event capacity limit. If they were truly interested in extracting maximum revenue from high margin guests and controlling crowds, the prices would go up, but the number of admittance would not. Clearly that has not been the case. Why? Because they make more money with more people.

 

[Disstevefan1]

In my opinion, I think a lot if folks are holding off their visit to DL/WDW till Rise of the Resistance is open at GE.
A lot of folks may be holding off till the WDW 50th celebrations start.

One other thing I think may be effecting the need/want to visit DL or WDW.

YOUTUBE.

I have seen so much video with in depth analysis of EVERYTHING in GE, I feel I have seen everything! there is no mystery left, Information overload! Nothing to discover.

Could I have purposely NOT watched all the GE videos on youtube, sure, but I am not that strong.

 

[bUU]

It’s funny because it sounds like they are going to raise prices again. I just don’t understand why they feel the need to constantly raise prices. It’s not like they are losing money.

Pricing has very little to do with the difference between revenue and expense. It is a big mistake to price what you offer based on cost. Rather, pricing is based on value, and specifically the value that your target markets place on what you offer.

These forums make it sound like there is a value problem. The price increases make clear that there isn't. You're just seeing a lot of people who are upset that the company isn't doing what they personally want the company to do.

 

[bUU]

If this is the case, why the serious concern about decreasing attendance trickling out from Orlando and Anaheim?

There is as much evidence that that is just rumor started by people with an ax to grind as actuality.

Why would Disney provide any discounts or promotions at all?

Why have they ever? Why would they have ever introduced PIN codes? Why would they have ever introduce AP discounts? Why would they have ever offered free dining promotions? And so on. Trying to draw any new conclusions from the offering of discounts or promotions, when this is something Disney has been doing forever, is irrational.

No matter what spin is put on having higher prices and lower attendance, Disney wants the parks jammed packed all the time.

There is no evidence of that. The only relevant evidence we have is that Disney wants profits.

 

[larryz]

So who becomes the fall guy/gal to scapegoat the problems on? WDI? P&R? Lucasfilm?

Chapek, if there's any justice in the world...