Disney World Has Gotten Too Expensive

[HauntedPirate]

Jason Dodge brought this up on his podcast, not sure if he posts here. I'm sure someone like @ParentsOf4 would have the actual homework to back it up.

The argument is hotels and food are not more unreasonable than they have been in the past. They've always been pricey, but largely track with inflation. Some of Disney seeming extra expensive in these regards is trying to normalize pre-inflated prices to where we are now.

On the other hand park ticket prices are the major culprit. They've essentially doubled, even accounting for inflation, in the last 20 years. Even if the ticket increases have been more 'modest' the past few years compared to inflation, Genie+ was just the latest scheme to increase the ticket price march.


I think we've reached the inflection point on ticket prices - which really means the solution isn't to keep increasing prices (they risk pricing people out entirely, if they haven't already). I think the executives are starting to realize this finally. But to increase WDW revenue moving forward, they need to expand the number of guests via attractions and new capacity.

Single-day ticket prices have more than doubled since 2005, 7 day park hoppers are closer to a 200% increase along with APs. The problem now isn't that they are "raising ticket prices", but instead shifting what days gets charged what amount in a pathetic attempt to claim "we aren't raising prices!". It's pretty damn disingenuous to claim that when 5 years ago you had (as an example) 120 days at your lowest price point but today you have 12. And the value for what you are paying for has diminished as well. Bob has been milking nostalgia for over a decade, and milking the **** out of it. Eventually the milk will run out.

 

[jloucks]

Seems like we are drifting off from core economic principles in this thread...

Just a reminder....

Demand dictates price. You, and by "you" I mean all 7.8 billion of you, are solely and exclusively responsible for the price of this luxury good and service. Ok, maybe not luxury, but for certain discretionary.

What is the argument here? That everyone should be able to afford WDW? How would that work with 7.8 billion people? Where do you draw the line? Based on supply, there has to be a line.

That line of course, is price.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Based on supply, there has to be a line.

I'd pay to see a line of 7.8 billion people. What you figure the ILL price would be in that specific case?

 

[Eric Graham]

Here's an interesting story from CNBC regarding credit card debt, and elevated prices of goods/services:

Nearly 1 in 4 Americans with debt are putting less money toward credit card payments: 'People are really struggling'

Credit card debt in the U.S. has reached a record high but around 23% of Americans are putting less money toward paying it down, per New York Life's survey.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Prices are up everywhere, but behind the headline for us - and quite a few others we know - the value for money has diminished.

This is my issue also, I’m one of the people who thinks Disney needs to raise prices to manage crowds but I don’t recall anyone asking them to eliminate perks and add restrictions at the same time that decrease the value of what we pay.

Reservations are probably the worst culprit, we wanted to go to DL in a couple weeks and we can’t get reservations, our AP/key gets more expensive every year but is worth less now because of other changes. Break even is still 4 weekends but we’re 2 months into our renewal and haven’t gone yet because we can’t get reservations, that’s ridiculous.

ETA: looked again after writing this and managed to get the weekend we wanted , doesn’t change the fact it’s a pain to get the dates you want and has decreased the value of our AP.

 

[jloucks]

Here's an interesting story from CNBC regarding credit card debt, and elevated prices of goods/services:

Nearly 1 in 4 Americans with debt are putting less money toward credit card payments: 'People are really struggling'

Credit card debt in the U.S. has reached a record high but around 23% of Americans are putting less money toward paying it down, per New York Life's survey.

www.cnbc.com

Ohh that is NOT good.

I know, let's tweak bankruptcy laws, again, and make it even more difficult to reset.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Ohh that is NOT good.

I know, let's tweak bankruptcy laws, again, and make it even more difficult to reset.

So irresponsible spending (yes, this is painting with a broad brush, as I know there are some situations where the spending isn't irresponsible) can be rewarded by filing and getting it wiped out while everything you bought remains in your possession? Yeah, why not. Choices have consequences. More need to feel the pain so they don't do it again.

I've been noting in posts for months that credit card debt is on an unsustainable path. Continually told by several economic experts around here that "it's fine", plus "Disney will be fine".

 

[Lilofan]

So irresponsible spending (yes, this is painting with a broad brush, as I know there are some situations where the spending isn't irresponsible) can be rewarded by filing and getting it wiped out while everything you bought remains in your possession? Yeah, why not. Choices have consequences. More need to feel the pain so they don't do it again.

I've been noting in posts for months that credit card debt is on an unsustainable path. Continually told by several economic experts around here that "it's fine", plus "Disney will be fine".

It is not fine with many in credit card debt. It is odd that casinos are posting 10% higher revenues $65B in 23' compared to 22' according to Forbes. Casinos will not take an IOU so apparently some in our country have to money to spend, enjoy and win/ lose at Sin City, Atlantic City and other gambling venues. The one aspect I enjoy in Vegas is the quality of the food is light years ahead of DLR and WDW even if the tables and the one arm bandits take my money.

 

[jloucks]

So irresponsible spending (yes, this is painting with a broad brush, as I know there are some situations where the spending isn't irresponsible) can be rewarded by filing and getting it wiped out while everything you bought remains in your possession? Yeah, why not. Choices have consequences. More need to feel the pain so they don't do it again.

I've been noting in posts for months that credit card debt is on an unsustainable path. Continually told by several economic experts around here that "it's fine", plus "Disney will be fine".

Where some see only irresponsible spending, I also see irresponsible credit. I hold the 1% much more accountable than most for their predatory credit practices.

To me, credit cards are a wealth-stripping predatory construct, if you are not paying them off every month.

It gets really depressing when essentials and healthcare become the items charged and accruing interest.

But sure, I agree, those irresponsible enough to buy vacations on credit deserve some ramifications.

 

[jloucks]

It is not fine with many in credit card debt. It is odd that casinos are posting 10% higher revenues $65B in 23' compared to 22' according to Forbes. Casinos will not take an IOU so apparently some in our country have to money to spend, enjoy and win/ lose at Sin City, Atlantic City and other gambling venues. The one aspect I enjoy in Vegas is the quality of the food is light years ahead of DLR and WDW even if the tables and the one arm bandits take my money.

We've been doing Vegas a little more, now that our WDW spending is suspended. It is a great place for shows, food, and even activities. Have you done the Grand Canyon Railway experience? Oooo, very fun. Well, if you like trains. They have a hotel on site, as it is a little far to come from and back to Vegas in a single day.

Come to think of it, I am headed there in May for a BDay party.

 

[networkpro]

I'd pay to see a line of 7.8 billion people. What you figure the ILL price would be in that specific case?

Assuming 3 people every meter, it would be 2.6 million kilometers or 1,615,565.1 miles long. It could wrap around the equator 64 times.

 

[DisAl]

And the survey says...

Disney World Named the "Biggest Rip-Off in America" in New Survey—Here's Why

After raising ticket prices last year, Disney World has been dubbed the "biggest rip-off in America," according to a new survey.

bestlifeonline.com

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Have you been to the Sphere? I've heard it was incredible. I've seen David Copperfield there and here a few times. He really puts on a great show. He had a meet/greet before and I was about a foot from him. My second time I've been brushed with stardom. The first time was when I had walked on the practice court at a tennis tournament and Sampras told me to get off the court.

I‘ve been fortunate to visit the Sphere several times for work, both for U2 and the Postcards show, and it‘s unlike anything else I’ve very experienced, truly next level.

We don’t gamble (beyond occasionally throwing a $20 bill in) but we still go to the casinos occasionally for the shows, the restaurants, and the shopping. Our current favorite things to do in Vegas are Knights games and non casino things like Area 15, golfing year round, etc.

We’ve never been to a magic show but we’ve been to most of the cirque shows, I’ve worked in the casinos for 20+ years and I’ve probably seen 1000+ concerts. There are definitely perks to working events in Vegas.

 

[Eric Graham]

I‘ve been fortunate to visit the Sphere several times for work, both for U2 and the Postcards show, and it‘s unlike anything else I’ve very experienced, truly next level.

We don’t gamble (beyond occasionally throwing a $20 bill in) but we still go to the casinos occasionally for the shows, the restaurants, and the shopping. Our current favorite things to do in Vegas are Knights games and non casino things like Area 15, golfing year round, etc.

We’ve never been to a magic show but we’ve been to most of the cirque shows, I’ve worked in the casinos for 20+ years and I’ve probably seen 1000+ concerts. There are definitely perks to working events in Vegas.

Oh wow, you have worked in a casino. Ill bet you have many a story to tell. I've only been to Vegas a couple of times to the MGM Grand and the Monte Carlo where I did enjoy seeing Lance Burton. I've always wanted to see Penn and Teller. I watch their show on TV. Some of my brother's friends went to the Sphere and they said it was awesome! It was funny I went to see Copperfield in the South a number of years ago for the first time and their was a blizzard at the time when I was going to the concert. I actually drove down there during the blizzard. He hadn't cancelled the show. One time I sat in seats high up here, which pretty much ruined the show for me because you could see how his tricks worked...

 

[Lilofan]

I‘ve been fortunate to visit the Sphere several times for work, both for U2 and the Postcards show, and it‘s unlike anything else I’ve very experienced, truly next level.

We don’t gamble (beyond occasionally throwing a $20 bill in) but we still go to the casinos occasionally for the shows, the restaurants, and the shopping. Our current favorite things to do in Vegas are Knights games and non casino things like Area 15, golfing year round, etc.

We’ve never been to a magic show but we’ve been to most of the cirque shows, I’ve worked in the casinos for 20+ years and I’ve probably seen 1000+ concerts. There are definitely perks to working events in Vegas.

I am sure you could write a tell all book on what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It is a wild and fun place for me to visit.

 

[Eric Graham]

See how crazy I am with the seeing magicians in Vegas

 

[Jrb1979]

I love Vegas. I used to go 2-3 times a year. Planning on going back next fall. I love downtown much better than the strip.

 

[Laketravis]

We're going to Vegas in a couple of weeks (after cancelling our prior trip due to all the F1 disruptions) and really looking forward to checking out The Sphere.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I wonder if the reason for such high debt is due to the mindset of the younger generation now.

In older generations, the mindset was mostly work and save til retirement. Travel then. Now the mindset is travel while you're young. Worry about retirement later.

I do both, I have my retirement savings but I also take a few vacations every year. If I wait til retirement my body may not be able to enjoy vacation like I can now.

It’s not just the current generation. It goes way back. I’m Gen X, and the first day at college, credit card companies had booths set up as far as the eye could see trying to get all the kids to sign up. There were lines at all the booths. Nothing says predatory lending like trying to make sure people are in debt before they even graduate college. Being a no nothing freshman, brand new in NYC, I figured I could use a credit card. I couldn’t imagine that I would be approved since I had zero credit history. So, to maximize my chances, I went to all the booths and applied for all of them, figuring maybe….maybe I’d get approved for one. A month later, my mailbox was full…..of credit cards. I had gotten approved for all of them. Needless to say, a poor piece of white trash from Hialeah, Florida didn’t exactly exercise restraint when offered the financial keys to the kingdom in glittery old NYC. I saw all the shows. I went to all the restaurants. I lived like I was a resident of Park Avenue. In addition to graduating with over $100,000 in student debt (I still owe over $70,000), I had thousand and thousands of dollars of credit card debt. That is thankfully all paid off now, but it didn’t make for easy living in my 20’s and 30’s.

 

[mkt]

the value for money has diminished.

I feel that this is the biggest point.

Disney has increased prices and made a few anti-consumer decisions (charging for what was once free, lowering CM hiring and training standards) without doing anything to increase the value relative to the additional money charged.

Or to put it simply, I don't mind paying more if the value is there. As it stands now, the value isn't there.