News Disney World Earmarks 80 Acres for Affordable Housing

[WDWJoeG]

A teenager would still be in school and not legally allowed to work 40 hours per week most likely.

It was obviously just an example, but way to dodge the entire point (and a 19 year old out of high school can do these front line jobs).

Again, I gave examples, what specifically is the living wage in Orlando for each of those individual situations for a popcorn vendor at Epcot?

Do they all make the same?

Does the father of four with a house get paid more than the single guy working full time still living with his parents?

What is their personal "living wage"?

 

[ToTBellHop]

How many acres are set aside for affordable Mickey pretzels?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

But pretending an employer must pay some mythical "living wage" to every person regardless of their skills, market demand/value of the position, or that individual's personal choices/living situation is nonsensical.

The minimum wage is nonsensical? Or the minimum wage being a “living wage” is nonsensical.

Do they all make the same?

Does the father of four with a house get paid more than the single guy working full time still living with his parents?

Yes. I don’t think someone should make any more or less based on their living situations, the fact that they have children, single / married, etc.

 

[John park hopper]

How many acres are set aside for affordable Mickey pretzels?

Mickey pretzels are funding WDW affordable housing

 

[MisterPenguin]

Mickey pretzels are funding WDW affordable housing

That's just socialistic redistribution of the weltzels!

 

[rio]

Gotta admire how quickly this forum can turn a thread into a "poor people just don't work hard enough" echo chamber.

Sometimes I wish we had a program where you had to start over as if you were graduating high school, and get a sizable check after 3 months. Or if you had to start out as if you were exiting college with no experience and the typical amount of debt. I bet you’d even be able to goad people into it because “they’re over exaggerating. I’ll show those kids” and they wouldn’t want to be called lazy for not doing so.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Yes. I don’t think someone should make any more or less based on their living situations, the fact that they have children, single / married, etc.

No one is arguing for that. It's just something people use to argue against correcting the broken system and a means of refusing to acknowledge that wages haven't kept up with inflation since the 70s.

 

[John park hopper]

Not all but too many poor people have made bad life choices

 

[TikibirdLand]

Not all but too many poor people have made bad life choices

Sometimes, it's a self-perpetuating problem. Due to the parents' circumstances, the children are doomed to poverty as well. Very sad and we need to figure out how to help them break the cycle.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Yes. I don’t think someone should make any more or less based on their living situations, the fact that they have children, single / married, etc.

I agree. And that's just one of the countless reasons why the entire "living wage" falls apart.

The job (let's say being a popcorn vendor on Main Street) is only worth what it is valued in the marketplace based on the skills required to do the job, which in this case is exceptionally little as a teenager who walks in off the street can get the job.

So by definition, it is an entry level job with low pay.

Forty hours of pay for an entry level job requiring minimal skills will never pay for people to "live" with families or if they want to have a house.

Now, if like when I had those jobs when I was young, you want to "live" with four smelly roommates in a crappy apartment, than you can live with that pay.

There is no such thing as a "living wage" because that amount is different for each person and entry level jobs aren't designed to fund any person's full living expenses - or you'd be paying $20 for a popcorn (or most likely as you've seen with fast food jobs that no longer exist, you'd just be serving yourself and there would be no job).

If you want better pay, develop skills that are more in demand.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I agree. And that's just one of the countless reasons where the entire "living wage" falls apart.

The job (let's say being a popcorn vendor on Main Street) is only worth what it is valued in the marketplace based on the skills required to do the job, which in this case is exceptionally little as a teenager who walks in off the street can get the job.

So by definition, it is an entry level job with low pay.

Forty hours of pay for an entry level job requiring minimal skills will never pay for people to "live" with families or if they want to have a house.

Now, if like when I had those jobs when I was young, you want to "live" with four smelly roommates in a crappy apartment, than you can live with that pay.

There is no such thing as a "living wage" because that amount is different for each person and entry level jobs aren't designed to fund any person's full living expenses - or you'd be paying $20 for a popcorn (or most likely as you've seen with fast food jobs that no longer exist, you'd just be serving yourself and there would be no job).

If you want better pay, develop skills that are more in demand.

"Living wage" means enough to support one person, in a humble lifestyle (to a minimum standard...which is where people get their panties in a bunch because they assume that means a fancy apartment and brand new car...I assure you, that isn't what most people asking for "living wage" think is a humble lifestyle that meets a minimum standard).

 

[Joffrey]

The people I'm talking about in particular are trainers and coordinators. This isn't just in your words"entry level" jobs. There's people who work in the parks that have been there for 10+ years. It's their career. Regardless, ANYONE who works 40+ hours a week regardless of their job should not have to rely on other people to have a roof over their head. It's called a Living wage.

What's a "living wage"? $40K/yr, $60k/yr, $200k/yr?

If I work 40 hours a week standing on the street corner spinning a sign that says "Fried Chicken This Way ->" do I deserve to be paid $50k / yr?

What if I work 40 hours a week writing movie reviews for a website with 100 monthly visitors, how much should I get paid?

I suspect you've never owned a business with employees.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

What's a "living wage"? $40K/yr, $60k/yr, $200k/yr?

If I work 40 hours a week standing on the street corner spinning a sign that says "Fried Chicken This Way ->" do I deserve to be paid $50k / yr?

What if I work 40 hours a week writing movie reviews for a website with 100 monthly visitors, how much should I get paid?

I suspect you've never owned a business with employees.

If you own a small business and are busy enough to need 1 employee (besides yourself), but you can't afford to pay them $35,000 per year for 40 hours per week, you either aren't selling enough product or are missing huge amounts of billable hours.

ETA: In 2 companies that I worked for, materials/supply costs were found to be slipping through the cracks. In one of those two, billable hours were also being missed in pricing. In my husband's company, it's both...consistently, and the owner screams about it, but then does nothing to change the outcome. It's a flooring company, and the salesmen constantly write up jobs wrong. They don't inspect for rot, they don't charge for rooms that get added on, they charge for a stair-runner instead of upholstered, they don't charge for a glued-down floor rip-up, etc. - it's basically an epidemic at that company and I'm surprised they haven't gone under.

Edit 2: The companies I mention above are NOT new companies by any stretch. They are all over 20 years old. The two I worked for had between 12-15 employees. The one my husband works for has ~50.

 

[JD80]

What's a "living wage"? $40K/yr, $60k/yr, $200k/yr?

If I work 40 hours a week standing on the street corner spinning a sign that says "Fried Chicken This Way ->" do I deserve to be paid $50k / yr?

What if I work 40 hours a week writing movie reviews for a website with 100 monthly visitors, how much should I get paid?

I suspect you've never owned a business with employees.

Most people (who are into defining policy terms) define living wage as enough money after a 40 work week 52 weeks a year with enough money to pay for food and a roof over your head. A living wage does not include:

• Restaurants or ordered food.
• Entertainment or vacations
• Savings or investment

It also doesn't include things like internet access, phone, car, fuel etc.

Now this number varies state to state. Federal minimum wage is still $7.25. Using some online publications, you'll see some different numbers by state (which you can break down further if you wish).

• NJ - Living wage is 18.22, Poverty Wage is 6.19 for 1 Adult - Fam of four two working adults it's 27.07/6.37 an hour.
• KS - It's 14.88/6.19 for 1 adult and 21.48/6.37 for 2 adults 2 kids both working

Living Wage Calculator

livingwage.mit.edu

Not sure how up to date it is.

So living in NJ your average living wage is $37.9k a year.
In Kansas it's $30,950

In NJ the minimum wage is $13.00/hr
In KS the minimum wage is $7.25/hr

Just numbers for reference.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Just numbers for reference.

And this chart shows exactly why this is a theoretical concept that has nothing to do with employers and actual wages.

As the chart shows, the "living wage" for a single adult changes based on the number of kids they have. No business is going to pay their employees different wages based on their personal life choices.

The value you add to the company as a popcorn vendor, Jungle Cruise lead, or Park VP doesn't change based on your personal situation.

"Oh, let's see, so Betty, I see you have no children, your pay will be $19.96 an hour."

"And let's see, Johnny, you have three kids, so you're pay will be $67.70 an hour."

No employer will ever pay their employees based on "living wages". You do a job, you get paid for the value of that job in the marketplace. The rest is on you to figure out.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

And this chart shows exactly why this is a theoretical concept that has nothing to do with employers and actual wages.

As the chart shows, the "living wage" for a single adult changes based on the number of kids they have. No business is going to pay their employees different wages based on their personal life choices.

The value you add to the company as a popcorn vendor, Jungle Cruise lead, or Park VP doesn't change based on your personal situation.

"Oh, let's see, so Betty, I see you have no children, your pay will be $19.96 an hour."

"And let's see, Johnny, you have three kids, so you're pay will be $67.70 an hour."

No employer will ever pay their employees based on "living wages". You do a job, you get paid for the value of that job in the marketplace. The rest is on you to figure out.


View attachment 633136

You're being disingenuous. No one expects their income to change depending on how many children they have, and that's not what the vast majority of people mean when they say "living wage". Whoever developed this chart should have used different terminology.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

You should be able to rent a living space,
Pay for insurance (or have insurance provided by your employer)
Pay for a comfortable amount of quality food.
Pay for basic transportation.
And have a little money left for quality of life (go see a show, save for a vacation, etc.)

Why is this so difficult?

 

[JD80]

And this chart shows exactly why this is a theoretical concept that has nothing to do with employers and actual wages.

As the chart shows, the "living wage" for a single adult changes based on the number of kids they have. No business is going to pay their employees different wages based on their personal life choices.

The value you add to the company as a popcorn vendor, Jungle Cruise lead, or Park VP doesn't change based on your personal situation.

"Oh, let's see, so Betty, I see you have no children, your pay will be $19.96 an hour."

"And let's see, Johnny, you have three kids, so you're pay will be $67.70 an hour."

No employer will ever pay their employees based on "living wages". You do a job, you get paid for the value of that job in the marketplace. The rest is on you to figure out.


View attachment 633136

You're being quite ridiculous. This chart shows you an estimation of how much you would have to earn in order to support yourself or your family's basic necessities. It's merely a reference point.

This is not a reference chart for an employers to evaluate a pay scale. No idea why your brain would go in that direction unless you were attempting to make a joke?

For example, if Walmart pays less that ~$15 an hour in Kansas then local state and federal taxes are most likely subsidizing medical, food, and housing costs of people who work there. Walmart gets cheap (and I would say exploitative) labor and the tax paying suckers have to help make up the rest to support them.

Walmart can (and has in certain places in the country) raised their minimum wage just because of competition in the marketplace but often does not pay a "living wage" in a lot of places. Often Walmart is the one of the largest employers in an area so people just can't "figure it out". That speaks of ignorance. If a poor person/family can barely make enough to put food on the table and gas in the car, they certainly don't have the resources to put gas in a car and uproot their life and find a better job 200 miles away or in another state.

Anything less than a "living wage" is basically create a class of serfs that will be stuck in a cycle of poverty for a long time if not for generations. When you say "someone" has to figure it out - you're speaking individually. Sure there are examples of people succeeding or pulling themselves out of poverty with luck or determination (or both). However when setting policy like a minimum wage you have to look at the millions of people that are affected by it, not just one person. Gotta see the forest through the trees so to speak.

 

[roj2323]

What's a "living wage"? $40K/yr, $60k/yr, $200k/yr?

If I work 40 hours a week standing on the street corner spinning a sign that says "Fried Chicken This Way ->" do I deserve to be paid $50k / yr?

What if I work 40 hours a week writing movie reviews for a website with 100 monthly visitors, how much should I get paid?

I suspect you've never owned a business with employees.

Not that it's any of your business but I've run a small business for 11 years.

A living Wage is a wage that allows the employee to pay their basic necessary expenses and leaves at least a tiny amount of money left over to allow for quality of life investments whether that be savings, an occasional vacation or things like child care or continuing education. That number will differ depending on the geographic area but typically it balances out to around 30K a year or in other words, about $15-$16 an hour based on a 40hr week. Keep in mind that wages are an exchange of time for money first and foremost. Any skills required to do the work should be accounted for separately and be reflected in the employee's wages. I.E. burger flippers will still make less than EMT's (who are grossly underpaid currently). This is why it's called a Living wage as it's the minimum amount of money needed to Live without outside assistance. Right now, those who are making below about $15 an hour are essentially required to have outside assistance such as food stamps to make up the difference. Ultimately that means you and I are paying for the unwillingness of businesses to pay a living wage. If we implement a living wage we can basically eliminate Social welfare for anyone who is capable of working, I.E. able bodied.

 

[WDWJoeG]

You should be able to rent a living space,
Pay for insurance (or have insurance provided by your employer)
Pay for a comfortable amount of quality food.
Pay for basic transportation.
And have a little money left for quality of life (go see a show, save for a vacation, etc.)

Why is this so difficult?

And that's the great thing about America and our system. If you want to open a business and pay more for the same labor then the business next to you, you are free to do it.

If your business plan believes that by paying more than the prevailing wage for that skill will drive a return, you can do it.

The rest of the market will pay the wage that is required to get the labor to do the job. If that pay doesn't fulfill your wishlist above for every person, then that person will need to develop more marketable skills or change their expectations/living situation.

And remember, as the old saying goes, the real minimum wage is zero. Many times in my businesses over the years when costs increased (including labor), I had to eliminate staff (sometimes in the several hundreds) and a few times had to completely close businesses which lead to thousands losing their jobs.

Ask those people what their new "living wage" is. Next time you go to a McDonalds and pour your own drink, ask the person who used to have that job what their "minimum wage" is.

The real business world is not a theoretical utopia no matter how much you wish it was.