News Disney World Earmarks 80 Acres for Affordable Housing

Andrew C

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
S

sWANNISAX

Well-Known Member
Andrew C said:
Fully support this. Affordable/attainable housing is what we need to see in this country.
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We need affordable housing but it needs to be where it will be beneficial and supported by community infrastructure. There are lots of upscale and expensive empty apartments and more going up still. This wil make traffic worse. Until western way is dramatically expanded or there's an alternative path into the main property it's going to be hell. Hartzog is not built for this either. There are no commitments for bus service. There are schools already at capacity even the newest ones and again terrible cellphone service. None of the retail development other than the Publix parking lot has even broken ground.
 
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lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
sWANNISAX said:
We need affordable housing but it needs to be where it will be beneficial and supported by community infrastructure. There are lots of upscale and expensive empty apartments and more going up still. This wil make traffic worse. Until western way is dramatically expanded or there's an alternative path into the main property it's going to be hell. Hartzog is not built for this.
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Expanding roads doesn’t fix anything. The infrastructure is specifically designed so that few places are “acceptable”.
 
Tha Realest

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
sWANNISAX said:
This is still a giant mistake. There are not enough schools in this area or business to support this influx. Not to mention the roads are not wide enough and the cell phone reception is terrible.
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This is the same company that overwhelms the already stretched thin amenities at places like the Polynesian or Fort Wilderness. Why would they care about how this affects existing residents?
 
C

Comped

Well-Known Member
sWANNISAX said:
This is still a giant mistake. There are not enough schools in this area or business to support this influx. Not to mention the roads are not wide enough and the cell phone reception is terrible.
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Meanwhile OCPS continues to claim that the entire area between Celebration and Horizon West (including this location) doesn't need any new schools, since overall But they are dreadfully short. I think at last count the overall area was close to 20 schools short? It's crazy. Not even talking about the crazy choices for retail development around this development (or in the entire region really) or the lack of public transit, or anything else!
 
nickys

nickys

Premium Member
Comped said:
Meanwhile OCPS continues to claim that the entire area between Celebration and Horizon West (including this location) doesn't need any new schools, since overall But they are dreadfully short. I think at last count the overall area was close to 20 schools short? It's crazy. Not even talking about the crazy choices for retail development around this development (or in the entire region really) or the lack of public transit, or anything else!
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OK, help me understand how the area can be 20 schools short. Surely in that case there would be hundreds of kids without a school to go to.

Sure somebody may have counted all the new homes and decided if every one had 2 kids, there would be a shortage. But clearly that hasn’t happened yet. That’s not to say there shouldn’t be some forward planning, with a couple earmarked for development, but no way can there be a need for 20 schools to open next year.
 
LAKid53

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Comped said:
Meanwhile OCPS continues to claim that the entire area between Celebration and Horizon West (including this location) doesn't need any new schools, since overall But they are dreadfully short. I think at last count the overall area was close to 20 schools short? It's crazy. Not even talking about the crazy choices for retail development around this development (or in the entire region really) or the lack of public transit, or anything else!
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A new elementary school opened last fall in Waterleigh. It's at capacity.

Those of you saying "we need more affordable housing", those of us in Horizons West don't disagree. We KNOW what it costs to rent or buy in such close proximity to WDW. But we also know how badly Avalon (535), Western Way, Hartzog and 429 get during morning and afternoon rush hours. And how impractical, if not impossible, it would be to widen some of those roads to accommodate not ONLY the apartment complexes being built along Avalon north to New Independence, but now adding another 1400 unit complex.

I looked at the permit just posted in this thread. There's no plan to widen Hartzog.

And cell phone service already is sketchy.
 
Andrew C

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
sWANNISAX said:
We need affordable housing but it needs to be where it will be beneficial and supported by community infrastructure. There are lots of upscale and expensive empty apartments and more going up still. This wil make traffic worse. Until western way is dramatically expanded or there's an alternative path into the main property it's going to be hell. Hartzog is not built for this either. There are no commitments for bus service. There are schools already at capacity even the newest ones and again terrible cellphone service. None of the retail development other than the Publix parking lot has even broken ground.
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These are the same excuses I see every time a development like this pops up across the US. Usually from people who vocally support affordable housing, but as someone else alluded to..."I support this...unless it messes with my world."

LAKid53 said:
Unless you live in an area that already has infrastructure that can't handle the capacity at present.

I do.
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Heaven forbid poor and lower-middle class people impact your life... :rolleyes:
 
C

Comped

Well-Known Member
nickys said:
OK, help me understand how the area can be 20 schools short. Surely in that case there would be hundreds of kids without a school to go to.

Sure somebody may have counted all the new homes and decided if every one had 2 kids, there would be a shortage. But clearly that hasn’t happened yet. That’s not to say there shouldn’t be some forward planning, with a couple earmarked for development, but no way can there be a need for 20 schools to open next year.
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Data I've seen has pointed to most schools in the area, without growth, being anywhere from 103% to almost 120% over capacity. I believe the last estimate, was that to keep up with current overcrowding and minimum growth, Horizon West alone needs at least a few more elementary schools (5-7 sticks in my head for some reason but I'm not sure why and that could be inaccurate), another 2 middle schools, and another HS - 8 or 10 schools right there. Numbers for Celebration and other areas are hard to find, but I have heard they are having similar issues. Growth is only expected to increase. 20 schools in the next decade or two just for natural growth within current homes is not insane, and that's not even talking about all the new development projects that are happening.
LAKid53 said:
A new elementary school opened last fall in Waterleigh. It's at capacity.

Those of you saying "we need more affordable housing", those of us in Horizons West don't disagree. We KNOW what it costs to rent or buy in such close proximity to WDW. But we also know how badly Avalon (535), Western Way, Hartzog and 429 get during morning and afternoon rush hours. And how impractical, if not impossible, it would be to widen some of those roads to accommodate not ONLY the apartment complexes being built along Avalon north to New Independence, but now adding another 1400 unit complex.

I looked at the permit just posted in this thread. There's no plan to widen Hartzog.

And cell phone service already is sketchy.
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Not just roads - what about shopping and living in general? There's not enough around there to support 1,400 new homes (plus potential expansion), along with all the other development. A laughably small Target and other things built for Flamingo (already grossly under-built) won't do much, and even if they drive to Hamlin (or elsewhere), that whole area is still underdeveloped in retail and services too, plus infrastructure already maxed out as you noted. Toss in schools, water, no public transit to speak of, and especially cell phones as you've said, and I have no idea how this is justified. At least other developers are working on improvements - Disney doesn't seem to be doing so.

I am all for development. I am a vocal proponent of development - but it must be smart development. This isn't smart. I applaud Disney for trying to do the right thing here, but it isn't enough. Perhaps this will put the spotlight on the area to actually get proper funding from the county... God knows we need it.
 
nickys

nickys

Premium Member
Comped said:
20 schools in the next decade or two just for natural growth within current homes is not insane,
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No, but that’s not how your post read.

And even if 5 schools are at 120% capacity, that’s 1 extra school required. To need 6 new schools now means 30 schools in the area are near to 120%. Are there really that many schools in the area, what size area are we talking about?
 
JohnD

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Looks like it's in Quadrant 8 of CFTOD map.
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A high school (Horizon's High School) is near it.
1757534122475.png
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Where is there an abundance of infrastructure with empty school rooms, extra lanes of hardly-used roads, and other under-utilized utilities such that one can build a dense amount of domiciles in that area and the existing infrastructure can immediately handle it?

Wherever there are current homes, infrastructure and utilities were built to accommodate them. It has happened for all existing homes. And will need to continue to happen for all new homes.

That infrastructure can be done smartly or poorly. It's up to all of us to demand our government representatives do so smartly.

And it's up to all of us to understand what "smartly" means. Stroads, car-dependency, and suburban sprawl aren't smart.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
One positive for Florida is that it isn’t unusual for local governments to require large new developments to provide land and funds for a schools. It’s why so many schools, particularly elementary schools, are on the middle of housing developments. Disney has now built three schools in Osceola County to support the continued development of Celebration, the latest being Island Village which opened in 2023. These costs aren’t eaten by the developer, they help raise prices for housing.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Ayla said:
Supporting infrastructure shouldn't be an afterthought to developments like this. It should be added/improved before it is even built.
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The infrastructure is designed at the outset to hamper its “improvement”. Only building developed areas, even “master planned” areas like Horizon West, as a bunch of dead ends that all feed onto only a few roads makes it nearly impossible to improve the infrastructure because it was designed in an incredibly inefficient manner. It’s designed to create traffic to keep others out and make transit options too costly to be effective. That Avalon Rd is too narrow and the only real way out of the area wasn’t a mistake or an area being suddenly overwhelmed, it was a deliberate and planned out decision.
 

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