News Disney Vacation Club Announces Expansion at The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa

[CastAStone]

Conventions, in general, are in trouble. We will see what the next few years hold.

I think that people like conventions even though they pretend they don’t, so even though they don’t always make sense to do, the legacy ones will keep happening as they always have.

The interesting thing to me is that as more places go permanent remote, will companies want to bring everyone all together for a few days or weeks a year in ways they haven’t before? Ideation, brainstorming, annual planning, whatever? If they downsize their office spaces, where will they do these things? Wouldn’t the logical place to do those be at a convention center? It could totally flip from the CW. I heard the CEO of Upwork talking about this recently on a podcast and he made some good arguments that the answer to all three questions is yes. We’ll see I suppose.

 

[nickys]

They would do it the same way they did WLV. The real question is if they go the Riviera way or stick to current GF model.

The announcement said it was being added to the GFV and would expire at the same time didn’t it? That to me means it’s just an additional 200 studios to the existing resort, so will have the same TOS as GFV.

 

[homerdance]

Not sure when the building was built but they used the existing wilderness lodge hotel and added new lakeside cabins.

Maybe I am not being clear here. The units being added are in a building that is 30+ years old. All of the buildings at WLV were either converted/declared before the 2nd DVC association was sold, so when you bought into WLV, you knew what buildings where part of your association and what your dues paid for. So when DVC built GFV it was a new building, which have much, much lower maintenance cost. As a result, dues paid today by existing GFV owners will go up because the amount of upkeep needed at the "new" (really 30+year old) DVC units. And if it isn't a full gut/remodel that is screwing the existing DVC GF owners over even more, unless of course they make a new association, which I believe they have said isn't happening doubtful.

 

[ryguy]

I think that people like conventions even though they pretend they don’t, so even though they don’t always make sense to do, the legacy ones will keep happening as they always have.

The interesting thing to me is that as more places go permanent remote, will companies want to bring everyone all together for a few days or weeks a year in ways they haven’t before? Ideation, brainstorming, annual planning, whatever? If they downsize their office spaces, where will they do these things? Wouldn’t the logical place to do those be at a convention center? It could totally flip from the CW. I heard the CEO of Upwork talking about this recently on a podcast and he made some good arguments that the answer to all three questions is yes. We’ll see I suppose.

I think you make some good points here. I don't think Disney needs convention space by the seven seas lagoon.Do those on a covention trip care so much about location to the Magic Kingdom? Personally I think Epcot would be more desirable.

 

[havoc315]

The announcement said it was being added to the GFV and would expire at the same time didn’t it? That to me means it’s just an additional 200 studios to the existing resort, so will have the same TOS as GFV.

They said same condo association but I wouldn’t bet on whether that’s set in stone.
They didn’t say whether it would be the same expiration date.

Changing the expiration date, adding restrictions, while keeping the same condo association — likely possible but would require some legal maneuvering. They may want to keep it simple and less controversial — same expiration date, no new restrictions.

But we won’t know for sure until they start releasing the sales literature, months from now.

 

[CastAStone]

They said same condo association but I wouldn’t bet on whether that’s set in stone.
They didn’t say whether it would be the same expiration date.

Changing the expiration date, adding restrictions, while keeping the same condo association — likely possible but would require some legal maneuvering. They may want to keep it simple and less controversial — same expiration date, no new restrictions.

But we won’t know for sure until they start releasing the sales literature, months from now.

I would be shocked if they tried to pull any of that. A Disboards mob chased them down this Spring for like $6.00 in tax assessment refunds (and won). Another mob is likely to get them to redo the 2022 points charts midway through the booking year. They know that people are watching their every move.

 

[havoc315]

I would be shocked if they tried to pull any of that. A Disboards mob chased them down this Spring for like $6.00 in tax assessment refunds (and won). Another mob is likely to get them to redo the 2022 points charts midway through the booking year. They know that people are watching their every move.

Mob didn’t stop them from putting in the restrictions at Riviera. Not so sure the mob would stop them from re-working new contracts for future direct sales.
After all, current direct owners would be grandfathered in.
And I have to believe “add on” buyers are a small percentage of total sales (though I could be wrong)

 

[runnsally]

I think you make some good points here. I don't think Disney needs convention space by the seven seas lagoon.Do those on a covention trip care so much about location to the Magic Kingdom? Personally I think Epcot would be more desirable.

If only there was an Epcot pavilion/event space for these nouveau conventioneers to celebrate their brainstorming sessions, hit the cupcake bar and enjoy some fireworks…

 

[mfortis]

Maybe I am not being clear here. The units being added are in a building that is 30+ years old. All of the buildings at WLV were either converted/declared before the 2nd DVC association was sold, so when you bought into WLV, you knew what buildings where part of your association and what your dues paid for. So when DVC built GFV it was a new building, which have much, much lower maintenance cost. As a result, dues paid today by existing GFV owners will go up because the amount of upkeep needed at the "new" (really 30+year old) DVC units. And if it isn't a full gut/remodel that is screwing the existing DVC GF owners over even more, unless of course they make a new association, which I believe they have said isn't happening doubtful.

Still aren’t , but my point is they can do what the hell they want. They can even do two different assessments like they do in Hawaii.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think that people like conventions even though they pretend they don’t, so even though they don’t always make sense to do, the legacy ones will keep happening as they always have.

The interesting thing to me is that as more places go permanent remote, will companies want to bring everyone all together for a few days or weeks a year in ways they haven’t before? Ideation, brainstorming, annual planning, whatever? If they downsize their office spaces, where will they do these things? Wouldn’t the logical place to do those be at a convention center? It could totally flip from the CW. I heard the CEO of Upwork talking about this recently on a podcast and he made some good arguments that the answer to all three questions is yes. We’ll see I suppose.

Bobs hardware wasn’t conventioning at the grand.
It was large pharma, defense contractors, accounting firms, banks and investment houses...

you should see the puke and discarded toiletries we fished out of the pools after the PWC interns “relaxed a little”...

it remains to be seen what kinda an appetite there is for that? It will likely return...but slowly. Disney won’t wait to convert rooms to timeshares and “give it time”

I think you make some good points here. I don't think Disney needs convention space by the seven seas lagoon.Do those on a covention trip care so much about location to the Magic Kingdom? Personally I think Epcot would be more desirable.

families do...and considering the bankroll of the companies that “convention” there...they pay to feel like they own the place...

(pretty sure some of them technically did own iger’s )

 

[nickys]

They said same condo association but I wouldn’t bet on whether that’s set in stone.
They didn’t say whether it would be the same expiration date.

Changing the expiration date, adding restrictions, while keeping the same condo association — likely possible but would require some legal maneuvering. They may want to keep it simple and less controversial — same expiration date, no new restrictions.

But we won’t know for sure until they start releasing the sales literature, months from now.

Joining the current condominium association means just that, joining under the current rules for GFV. That wording is in the official announcement, which I assume means it’s already been approved somewhere in the OC

Mob didn’t stop them from putting in the restrictions at Riviera. Not so sure the mob would stop them from re-working new contracts for future direct sales.
After all, current direct owners would be grandfathered in.
And I have to believe “add on” buyers are a small percentage of total sales (though I could be wrong)

Riviera is a new resort and had a new condominium association. Just like Copper Creek.

That is not what they announced.

 

[CastAStone]

Mob didn’t stop them from putting in the restrictions at Riviera. Not so sure the mob would stop them from re-working new contracts for future direct sales.
After all, current direct owners would be grandfathered in.
And I have to believe “add on” buyers are a small percentage of total sales (though I could be wrong)

Well yeah the mob can’t stop them deform doing things they clearly have a legal right to do. But it will stop them from adding resale restrictions to an existing condo association, which they don’t have the right to do.

Traditionally add-ons are a small percentage of sales but they’ve been the majority during COVID.

 

[havoc315]

Joining the current condominium association means just that, joining under the current rules for GFV. That wording is in the official announcement, which I assume means it’s already been approved somewhere in the OC

Some rules are set by the condo association. Others by the individual contract. Not all members pay the same price— point price changes over time, and that’s incorporated into the contract.
Not all OKW members have the same expiration date.

Not all Aulani have the same dues.

There may be some legal maneuvering, but not that hard to put in new terms about resale. Being part of the same condo association doesn’t mean they can’t change the terms for future buyers.

Riviera is a new resort and had a new condominium association. Just like Copper Creek.

That is not what they announced.

Talking there about the influence of the “mob.”

The resale restrictions are part of the sales contract, which can change for future buyers. They have nothing to do with the condo association bylaws.

 

[havoc315]

Well yeah the mob can’t stop them deform doing things they clearly have a legal right to do. But it will stop them from adding resale restrictions to an existing condo association, which they don’t have the right to do.

Sure they have every legal right. Resale restrictions have nothing to do with the condo association, they are part of the purchase agreement.

Traditionally add-ons are a small percentage of sales but they’ve been the majority during COVID.

 

[pdude81]

They have the legal right to change a whole bunch of terms, but they typically don't do that for anyone who has previously purchased. If these are just units in the same association, they would be nuts to try to add resale restrictions now after exempting the original 14 resorts during the Riviera launch.

Mostly likely for this they will sell these points at the "sold out" price of 260 or whatever it is a point (which is dramatically more than the price they sold the original resort plus annual maintenance) and then leave the end date the same. That's a lot of money for a short refurb that they would have had to do anyway.

 

[mfortis]

Has anyone done the math? 300 units x ? Points x $260 dollars. Just curious how much money they are raking in.

 

[correcaminos]

Some rules are set by the condo association. Others by the individual contract. Not all members pay the same price— point price changes over time, and that’s incorporated into the contract.
Not all OKW members have the same expiration date.

Not all Aulani have the same dues.

There may be some legal maneuvering, but not that hard to put in new terms about resale. Being part of the same condo association doesn’t mean they can’t change the terms for future buyers.



Talking there about the influence of the “mob.”

The resale restrictions are part of the sales contract, which can change for future buyers. They have nothing to do with the condo association bylaws.

To correct on OKW, it's actually not that we have different end dates, we actually don't. We have some who signed a quitclaim to end their ownership early. All of OKW ends at 2057, with some opting to return their ownership interest early.

Aulani didn't just arbitrarily give different MFs as well. It was a massive mistake and people were fired over it. Sales were even halted for a time. Disney was nice and didn't slap the original owners with a massive increase that was all due to errors.

They don't just change rules because they want to. They cannot change a small portion of owners on a whim. They will either pull a failed OKW quitclaim/pay more not to sign, or the resort will all end on the same earlier date.

 

[pdude81]

Has anyone done the math? 300 units x ? Points x $260 dollars. Just curious how much money they are raking in.

Need point charts for that. But if it's 300 studios and not multiple studios per unit (DVC units are normally 2BR equivalent blocks), then let's do a slightly below average 25 points per night.

That's 300 rooms X 365 nights X 25 points per night x 260 dollars a point = 711,750,000.00

And that's before the prorated dues and the likely increase to the cost of points before they go on sale.

 

[CastAStone]

They have the legal right to change a whole bunch of terms, but they typically don't do that for anyone who has previously purchased. If these are just units in the same association, they would be nuts to try to add resale restrictions now after exempting the original 14 resorts during the Riviera launch.

Mostly likely for this they will sell these points at the "sold out" price of 260 or whatever it is a point (which is dramatically more than the price they sold the original resort plus annual maintenance) and then leave the end date the same. That's a lot of money for a short refurb that they would have had to do anyway.

Grand Floridian cost about 11% more points per night than Riviera, and 13% more cash dollars per night than Riviera, so I don’t know why they would charge more per point, The premium is already baked into the number of points.

 

[CastAStone]

Has anyone done the math? 300 units x ? Points x $260 dollars. Just curious how much money they are raking in.

If the rooms are the same points as the current studios, and 60% of them are Lakeview, which matches the percent that are currently either lake or theme park view, and the rest are standard, and they charge $201 per point, which is the current Riviera price, they will make ~$350 million. There are 200 rooms, not 300. I think a reasonable guesstimate of construction costs is $150,000 to $300,000 per room, so Disney will make approximately “a killing” on this.