Disney to provide Cast Members with free MMR vaccines

[LAKid53]

You keep sayings his like there is some rather large contingent of the population unable to safely be vaccinated. Diseases were able to be eradicated because that is such a small group of people.

That is why until recently, measles were eradicated in the U.S. Because the majority of the population either had an immunity from having or being exposed or the MMR vaccination. Same reason for polio. A thoroughly vaccinated population.

However, because of the anti-vaccination movement, fortunately a very small movement, measles is back. All it takes is one unvaccinated individual - and in the case of the Disneyland outbreak, someone as the CDC suspects from a foreign country with little or no vaccination programs - contagious but not exhibiting the classic symptom, the rash, for the disease to spread. People have talked about the "herd" concept - you ensure the majority of the herd is vaccinated and thereby protect those members of the herd who are unable to be vaccinated. However, this doesn't take into count unvaccinated outsiders who enter the Herd's territory.

And all it took for this anti-vaccination movement to gain credibility was for one celebrity, after reading or hearing about a flawed and falsified study in the British medical journal, to loudly and repeatedly blame the MMR shot for her child's autism. And in spite of the study being retracted and the medical community repeatedly stating the study was flawed and the date falsified and the doctor conducting the study having his license to practice medicine revoked as a result, there are still parents who think the MMR shot causes autism. I recently read an article on the anti-vaccination movement. The most sobering party of the article? That in spite of anti-vaccination parents being provided empirical evidence that vaccinations don't cause autism, they still believe it. "You can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

When the state health department, after the outbreak starting at Disney, looked at the unvaccinated population in Southern California, they found the more affluent areas of LA and Orange counties had a higher rate of unvaccinated school aged children than they would have thought. Most folks would have assumed the opposite, mainly because of problems with access to health care poorer communities faced.

 

[Gomer]

you do know that the shot is a weakened virus . That way your body fights a half dead virus and learns how to make the right antibodies and how to attack it vs trying to fight off a healthy virus. That is why your son is showing signs of the virus in his system.

Hepatitis B is a 24 hour vaccine for a simple reason , the virus is transmitted by exposure to infectious blood or body fluids. It happens mostly around birth and in childhood. A new born has a very weak immune system and is in a hospital where there are many children being born on an hourly basis and thus a lot more risk of exposure to hepatitis B. It takes up to half a year for symptoms to begin and then of course the symptoms can be from anything for the first couple of days after that. So unless we are going to screen people with daily blood tests its impossible to know who has it and anyone at the hospital can have it.

There are up to 350m people who have hepatitis B and 3 quarters of a million people die each year from it.

If you can show me studies that link vacciene cocktails and the spacing of the shot schedule with autism I'd love to read them because I haven't heard of any real studies on it.

Lets not forget that the original paper (that was fraudulent ) that started Jenny and the anti vaxers going was based on the assumption that mercury was the problem in the vaccienes now its gone and people have now changed the goal posts to aluminum and the amount of shots in a short period.

The aluminum is there to stimulate your body into attacking it earlier and with much more deadly force. But its okay because the amount in a shot is tiny, you put more into your body each day using deodorant (since its a major active ingredient in deodorant)

Yes, I know that the vaccine is a weakened virus. Thanks.

Showing symptoms of a virus after being vaccinated doesn't usually consist of going into a near catatonic state for 3 days with a dangerously high fever though. I have a child with autism and one without. I watch how they react to a great number of items going into their system. My son with autism is just weaker, from an immunity standpoint, a digestion standpoint. Muscle tone, energy. He is far more susceptible to outside factors. There is no harm in separating MMR into three shots. They are combined to save Merck money. That is the only reason. You can request them separately but often have to go on a waiting list to get them because they are not widely available.

And the point is, there are no studies on the vaccine schedule and autism. No one wants to talk about that because, like you, they immediately take the debate to Jenny MCarthy and whether vaccines cause autism. They jump to extremes. Why do you feel the need to explain tome how bad Hep B is? I didn't say, don't vaccinate for it. I'm just saying, maybe wait until the baby is out of shock from the birthing process. 48 hours or so, would allow the baby to be much better equipped to process the virus. But instead of discussing ways to make the process better, it immediately and predictably devolves into fear mongering and worst case scenarios. Which is not the point. All I'm saying is, we should look at the vaccination schedule to see if there is a better way to do it so that all parties benefit from it. If people would look for ways to make it easier on those who fear it, then perhaps there wouldn't be so many people out right rejecting vaccines and we wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

If you want to make me into an anti-vaxxer to fit your argument that's fine. But that wasn't the point I was making.

 

[LAKid53]

you do know that the shot is a weakened virus . That way your body fights a half dead virus and learns how to make the right antibodies and how to attack it vs trying to fight off a healthy virus. That is why your son is showing signs of the virus in his system.

Hepatitis B is a 24 hour vaccine for a simple reason , the virus is transmitted by exposure to infectious blood or body fluids. It happens mostly around birth and in childhood. A new born has a very weak immune system and is in a hospital where there are many children being born on an hourly basis and thus a lot more risk of exposure to hepatitis B. It takes up to half a year for symptoms to begin and then of course the symptoms can be from anything for the first couple of days after that. So unless we are going to screen people with daily blood tests its impossible to know who has it and anyone at the hospital can have it.

There are up to 350m people who have hepatitis B and 3 quarters of a million people die each year from it.

If you can show me studies that link vacciene cocktails and the spacing of the shot schedule with autism I'd love to read them because I haven't heard of any real studies on it.

Lets not forget that the original paper (that was fraudulent ) that started Jenny and the anti vaxers going was based on the assumption that mercury was the problem in the vaccienes now its gone and people have now changed the goal posts to aluminum and the amount of shots in a short period.

The aluminum is there to stimulate your body into attacking it earlier and with much more deadly force. But its okay because the amount in a shot is tiny, you put more into your body each day using deodorant (since its a major active ingredient in deodorant)

Actually, the mercury used in vaccinations is not the same mercury we worry about in certain foods, like fish. My university has a major autism research center. None of the studies the center has published reference a correlation between the age administered and the frequency of vaccinations with autism. Reports I've read indicate autism may have a cause more related to things that happen to the fetus in utero, like the mother having flu or a flu like illness. Or other environmental factors that affect a pregnant woman.

Remember when aluminum was thought to be the cause of Alzheimer's? That has since been debunked. And up until the early 20th century, people - including the medical community - thought TB was genetic, because if your parent(s) had TB, you would have TB. But thanks to the research of Robert Koch and the work of Dr. Edward Trudeau in the U.S., TB is no longer the public health nightmare it used to be.

 

[Gomer]

Actually, the mercury used in vaccinations is not the same mercury we worry about in certain foods, like fish. My university has a major autism research center. None of the studies the center has published reference a correlation between the age administered and the frequency of vaccinations with autism. Reports I've read indicate autism may have a cause more related to things that happen to the fetus in utero, like the mother having flu or a flu like illness. Or other environmental factors that affect a pregnant woman.

Remember when aluminum was thought to be the cause of Alzheimer's? That has since been debunked. And up until the early 20th century, people - including the medical community - thought TB was genetic, because if your parent(s) had TB, you would have TB. But thanks to the research of Robert Koch and the work of Dr. Edward Trudeau in the U.S., TB is no longer the public health nightmare it used to be.

This is sort of my point. Because no one knows what causes autism, the studies all concentrate there. There is very little work done to study how autism interacts with the world. But there is a strong indication that those with autism have issues of malabsorption and issues expelling toxins (i.e. liver functionality, etc...). Eventually, someone will need to do a study to see what modification to our typical medical knowledge need to be made for those with autism. I'm not just talking about vaccines, but things like food pyramids, vitamin dosages. There is a great deal of work being done now to see if autism is related to Vitamin D deficiencies (or vice versa). What we need to feed and inject into a child with autism may need to be approached differently than the typical child. And I don't see how studying that would be a danger to society.

 

[LAKid53]

This is sort of my point. Because no one knows what causes autism, the studies all concentrate there. There is very little work done to study how autism interacts with the world. But there is a strong indication that those with autism have issues of malabsorption and issues expelling toxins (i.e. liver functionality, etc...). Eventually, someone will need to do a study to see what modification to our typical medical knowledge need to be made for those with autism. I'm not just talking about vaccines, but things like food pyramids, vitamin dosages. There is a great deal of work being done now to see if autism is related to Vitamin D deficiencies (or vice versa). What we need to feed and inject into a child with autism may need to be approached differently than the typical child. And I don't see how studying that would be a danger to society.

Neither would I. But some of the reports I read indicate autism presents more in utero, rather than after birth.

The issue with vaccinations and autism was related to the vaccination being responsible for the child acquiring autism, not how a vaccination affects a child already diagnosed with autism. Which is what Jenny McCarthy declared.

 

[Todd H]

And the point is, there are no studies on the vaccine schedule and autism.

Sure there are. Here's one that found no link between the two (the link to the study is in the article).

http://www.jpeds.com/content/JPEDSDeStefano

FWIW, I'm the father of an autistic child (and have myself been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome).

 

[Gomer]

Neither would I. But some of the reports I read indicate autism presents more in utero, rather than after birth.

The issue with vaccinations and autism was related to the vaccination being responsible for the child acquiring autism, not how a vaccination affects a child already diagnosed with autism. Which is what Jenny McCarthy declared.

Yes. There was a false belief amongst many that their anecdotal evidence of regression as a toddler meant that autism occurred after birth. That has since been proven untrue. Whether autism is genetic or occurs in utero (or a combination of both) is yet to be discovered. My point was just that there are two sides to the equation. Because vaccines don't cause autism,. that doesn't mean that the safety of vaccines on those with autism shouldn't be studied. But because of the manner of the debate, that nuance is often lost amongst a hail of crazy people who take an all or nothing approach. Because of that, research into environmental impacts on those with autism has all but ceased, because the Jenny Mccarthy debate has tarnished to that area of study.

 

[Gomer]

Sure there are. Here's one that found no link between the two (the link to the study is in the article).

http://www.jpeds.com/content/JPEDSDeStefano

FWIW, I'm the father of an autistic child (and have myself been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome).

Again though, that study is testing risks of autism. Which isn't what I am suggesting. I am not suggesting vaccines increase risks of autism. I am suggesting that those with autism (from whatever the cause) may have a harder time coping with the effects of vaccines as well as other foreign substances in their body.

I think it is a misunderstanding of these symptoms that cause people to jump to the wrong conclusion that the vaccine caused their autism. More knowledge may lead to those people again being willing to vaccinate under the right modifications and circumstances.

What I am suggesting is a way to get more people to vaccinate their children, not less.

 

[LAKid53]

Yes. There was a false belief amongst many that their anecdotal evidence of regression as a toddler meant that autism occurred after birth. That has since been proven untrue. Whether autism is genetic or occurs in utero (or a combination of both) is yet to be discovered. My point was just that there are two sides to the equation. Because vaccines don't cause autism,. that doesn't mean that the safety of vaccines on those with autism shouldn't be studied. But because of the manner of the debate, that nuance is often lost amongst a hail of crazy people who take an all or nothing approach. Because of that, research into environmental impacts on those with autism has all but ceased, because the Jenny Mccarthy debate has tarnished to that area of study.

I don't think the arguments on this thread regarding vaccinations were focused on the effect of vaccines on children with autism, but more on vaccines being one of the causes of autism, as we were discussing why people didn't vaccinate their children. Yes, I've read that children with autism have sensitivities to many environmental factors, including some vaccines and foods.

There is a test to determine if someone should not receive the MMR vaccine. If I was a parent of a child with autism, I would certainly ask my child's pediatrician to administer the blood test before my child received the vaccine if said pediatrician felt it was important for my child's health to do so. And I must disagree with your statement that research into environmental impacts on autism has stopped. That's not the case at my university. Especially since research into the causes of autism is pointing more and more to certain environmental factors.

 

[Gomer]

I don't think the arguments on this thread regarding vaccinations were focused on the effect of vaccines on children with autism, but more on vaccines being one of the causes of autism, as we were discussing why people didn't vaccinate their children. Yes, I've read that children with autism have sensitivities to many environmental factors, including some vaccines and foods.

There is a test to determine if someone should not receive the MMR vaccine. If I was a parent of a child with autism, I would certainly ask my child's pediatrician to administer the blood test before my child received the vaccine if said pediatrician felt it was important for my child's health to do so. And I must disagree with your statement that research into environmental impacts on autism has stopped. That's not the case at my university. Especially since research into the causes of autism is pointing more and more to certain environmental factors.

That is good to hear that there is still research ongoing. It has definitely lessened in the wake of the vaccine controversy though.

The reason I brought my point up in this thread, is because the "debate" over vaccines causing autism is what leads many to not vaccinate. The sides go back and forth like a Disney/Universal fanboy fight and never get anywhere. People see autistic children reacting poorly to vaccines and make assumptions that they are the cause leading to fewer vaccinations. If the end goal is to increase the vaccination rate amongst people who fear them, then studies into what those negative reactions are, what they mean, and how to avoid them would likely ease the worries of all these people that jump to the wrong conclusions or believe celebrities who try to scare them into not getting vaccinated. Like I said before, I have greatly reduced my son's reactions to vaccines by changing his diet, modifying his schedule, and making sure he is in his healthiest possible state when vaccinated. If studies were to prove what I have anecdotally found, then perhaps many of these people not vaccinating would not be so scared to inject their children anymore.

As of now, the primary tactic to increasing vaccine rates seems to be shaming people into getting them. I don't think that will ever produce much good. I'm just trying to suggest that maybe there is abetter way to bring these people back to the fold and restore the herd immunity.

 

[George]

Crap. There goes a huge chunk of my discount MMR vaccine customer base.

 

[George]

Antivaxxers. What on earth are they thinking? or, actually not doing much thinking. Actually....I can't comment because It will turn ugly and I'll be left with warning points.

Like I said, the Vaxxes were extremely stable. I was quite surprised with the number of banks and airlines still under the spell of Digital Electronics Corporation so many years after the computers weren't supported any more. Heck, it wasn't that long ago that I worked with a dude who wrote his own word processing program for the VAX....still the anti-vaxxers are probably looking at fuctionality, the fact operating systems that users communicate with via text have gone the way of the dodo, and lack of support for many, many years (alright, lack of incredibly expensive support) as big reasons for not wanting to go with those computers any more. Plus, it is almost impossible not to use tape backups which takes a long time and drives people crazy.

 

[LAKid53]

That is good to hear that there is still research ongoing. It has definitely lessened in the wake of the vaccine controversy though.

The reason I brought my point up in this thread, is because the "debate" over vaccines causing autism is what leads many to not vaccinate. The sides go back and forth like a Disney/Universal fanboy fight and never get anywhere. People see autistic children reacting poorly to vaccines and make assumptions that they are the cause leading to fewer vaccinations. If the end goal is to increase the vaccination rate amongst people who fear them, then studies into what those negative reactions are, what they mean, and how to avoid them would likely ease the worries of all these people that jump to the wrong conclusions or believe celebrities who try to scare them into not getting vaccinated. Like I said before, I have greatly reduced my son's reactions to vaccines by changing his diet, modifying his schedule, and making sure he is in his healthiest possible state when vaccinated. If studies were to prove what I have anecdotally found, then perhaps many of these people not vaccinating would not be so scared to inject their children anymore.

As of now, the primary tactic to increasing vaccine rates seems to be shaming people into getting them. I don't think that will ever produce much good. I'm just trying to suggest that maybe there is abetter way to bring these people back to the fold and restore the herd immunity.

And I agree with you. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I read a report issued after the outbreak that started at Disneyland wherein those looking at why efforts to get those opposed to vaccination to change their minds doesn't work very well. You can throw all the empirical evidence at them about the safety of vaccinations and they just don't or won't listen.

I've stated repeatedly that those individuals who cannot medically receive the vaccination should not - because they are allergic to ingredients in the vaccination, have a compromised immune system or other medical conditions (which may include autism) that would result in the vaccination causing serious health problems.

I don't have a problem with the MMR being administered in one dose. I think it's more of an issue of schedule than saving Merck money. Point in case - the Hepatitis vaccination. Which must be administered by the schedule or the vaccination is ineffective. Miss one of the three doses or not have the dose as scheduled (and I believe there is flexibility in the schedule - if you miss the next dose by a week, you don't have to start over), you start again. I tell you I made sure my daughter got each dose as scheduled. However, she was in grade or middle school when the vaccination came out. I didn't realize they now administered a vaccination for Hep C shortly after birth. I, as a mother who had just given birth, would be concerned about that. So is that now part of the APGAR test?

 

[Matt_Black]

Another thing to consider- looking at a sheer statistics point of view, there ARE more diagnosed cases of autism than there were. What many FAIL to report is that doctors weren't that good at diagnosing it before.

 

[LAKid53]

Like I said, the Vaxxes were extremely stable. I was quite surprised with the number of banks and airlines still under the spell of Digital Electronics Corporation so many years after the computers weren't supported any more. Heck, it wasn't that long ago that I worked with a dude who wrote his own word processing program for the VAX....still the anti-vaxxers are probably looking at fuctionality, the fact operating systems that users communicate with via text have gone the way of the dodo, and lack of support for many, many years (alright, lack of incredibly expensive support) as big reasons for not wanting to go with those computers any more. Plus, it is almost impossible not to use tape backups which takes a long time and drives people crazy.

I had to read your post several times before I got the connection between VAX and DEC. Was thinking, "what does the anti-vaccination movement have to do with a computer company?" Very funny post. My agency had a server room full of VAXes - yes, we were under the spell of that DEC salesman (whose wife just happened to work at our agency).

 

[LAKid53]

Another thing to consider- looking at a sheer statistics point of view, there ARE more diagnosed cases of autism than there were. What many FAIL to report is that doctors weren't that good at diagnosing it before.

You've hit that nail on the head. Autism rates in the population have, in the past few years (and I mean 2-3) gone from 1 in 100 to now what 1 in 60? Higher rates of autism? Or the medical community better able to diagnose children with autism. And the recent change in which behaviors the medical community consider part of the autism spectrum. What I would like to see answered is why autism presents in boys more than girls.

 

[Gomer]

You've hit that nail on the head. Autism rates in the population have, in the past few years (and I mean 2-3) gone from 1 in 100 to now what 1 in 60? Higher rates of autism? Or the medical community better able to diagnose children with autism. And the recent change in which behaviors the medical community consider part of the autism spectrum. What I would like to see answered is why autism presents in boys more than girls.

My thought on this has always been that the moderate cases can get "worked out" in girls easier because of the emphasis on socialization in girl's education. Because of societal pressures and norms, girls are taught to nurture and socialize from a very young age. Boys have less of an emphasis on that front. So, some moderate cases in girls may have been "trained out of them" before a diagnosis is needed through peer pressure and parental and teacher guidance. Social peculiarities are far more tolerated in young boys where there is less emphasis to fit in and more emphasis on competition and physical play.

It could equally turn out to be genetic. But I have met a number of young girls without a diagnosis in my son's special education classes throughout the years who seem to have many of the same sensory issues as boys, but have taught themselves to fit in enough socially to avoid a formal diagnosis. But this is admittedly anecdotal.

 

[Gomer]

And I agree with you. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I read a report issued after the outbreak that started at Disneyland wherein those looking at why efforts to get those opposed to vaccination to change their minds doesn't work very well. You can throw all the empirical evidence at them about the safety of vaccinations and they just don't or won't listen.

I've stated repeatedly that those individuals who cannot medically receive the vaccination should not - because they are allergic to ingredients in the vaccination, have a compromised immune system or other medical conditions (which may include autism) that would result in the vaccination causing serious health problems.

I don't have a problem with the MMR being administered in one dose. I think it's more of an issue of schedule than saving Merck money. Point in case - the Hepatitis vaccination. Which must be administered by the schedule or the vaccination is ineffective. Miss one of the three doses or not have the dose as scheduled (and I believe there is flexibility in the schedule - if you miss the next dose by a week, you don't have to start over), you start again. I tell you I made sure my daughter got each dose as scheduled. However, she was in grade or middle school when the vaccination came out. I didn't realize they now administered a vaccination for Hep C shortly after birth. I, as a mother who had just given birth, would be concerned about that. So is that now part of the APGAR test?

In my personal experience with my two kids, the in hospital vaccines were given roughly 12 hours after birth. So, not immediately with the APGAR, but I believe the schedule calls for within 24 hours of birth. That could have changed since my children were born though. When I was a kid, I didn't start the Hep vaccine schedule until 8th grade. Not sure when that changed.

 

[Wrangler-Rick]

I wonder how much of Disney's decision has to do with ensuring that significant numbers of cast members do not contract the measles, forcing park shutdowns? Whether the CMs get the vaccines or not, the unvaccinated guests will do an even greater job of spreading it from area to area as they move about the parks. But, they can only spread it to others who weren't vaccinated, or weren't exposed to it as children. I think Disney vaccinating the CMs is only a drop in the bucket compared to the number of unvaccinated guests that visit the parks. If you are an adult and you are unvaccinated, then unfortunately you are taking on a risk everytime you go out in publc, but that is your choice. If you contract the measles, you have no one to blame but yourself. If you have a compromised immune system, protect yourself, not only from measles, but from a variety of nasty things that will lay you out. I feel the worst for the parents of infants who are still too young to be given the vaccines....

 

[LAKid53]

In my personal experience with my two kids, the in hospital vaccines were given roughly 12 hours after birth. So, not immediately with the APGAR, but I believe the schedule calls for within 24 hours of birth. That could have changed since my children were born though. When I was a kid, I didn't start the Hep vaccine schedule until 8th grade. Not sure when that changed.

That's what I remember, my daughter's series started in middle school.