Disney to mandate full vaccinations to employees

mikejs78

Premium Member
Th
Within reasonable norms! How is "I won't hire any one who doesn't drink bleach" and "I won't hire Asians" and "I won't hire any one who voted for ______" any different than "I won't hire any one who doesn't want to take a vaccination that HASN'T even been approved by a corrupt and untrustworthy government"?

Be very, very careful what you wish for... (Tinkerbell won't approve... Actually from what I know of that character she might, but Mulan and Merida absolutely wouldn't!)
There is a huge difference. Discrimination based on race is prohibited in the Constitution and federal law. That is based on who you are, not what you do.

A company could reasonably say I won't have anyone who voted for... But other than the employee volunteering that info, there's no way for the employer to know. But there is nothing in law preventing that. However, that may narrow their talent pool and their customer base, so it may not be in their best interests.

Btw there are partisan organizations on both sides that *do* require you to be a registered Republican or Democrat.

In regards to vaccines, again, it's been upheld by many courts over many years. And once fully approved next month, the "emergency use" argument will go away and I expect many more companies to follow. It can easily be argued that companies have a vested interests in keeping their employees and customers safe, and that's why they mandate the vaccine.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
VAERS database was the one reporting over 12,000, until they decided to go into the system and remove half. A study was done by Harvard to determine how many people use the system to report there reaction, and the study concluded that only 1% of those impacted report there adverse reaction. Using that study, you could conclude that the deaths could be up to 1,200,000. Personally, I believe more people are aware of the database then ever before. I would think that the study would need to be done again to be more accurate for 2021. But even if we assume that people are 10 times more likely to report in 2021 than when the study was done, that would mean 120,000.

It should also be noted that Pfizer reported quarterly income of over 2Billion. It is not just from the COVID vaccines, but their pharmaceuticals have become popular in treating myocarditis and all the other reactions that are occurring from the "vaccines."
When money becomes the driving motive, we should be concerned. I believe we have 9 new billionaires since COVID started, and as you can guess, they are all from big Pharma.
This is all lies and conspiracy theory...





I would assume very few know about the information I presented above as well.
Because it's all lies and conspiracy theory without proof.


Its much easier to be fooled than to be convinced that you have been fooled. If you don't see the data out there that have warned about the adverse impact of these vaccines...s
Where's the big money pay-off the FDA is getting? When you only focus on the pharma company and claim that money distorts reality, then you must obviously trust the FDA which isn't becoming billionaires based on its work. Your logic is self-contradicting.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Within reasonable norms! How is "I won't hire any one who doesn't drink bleach" and "I won't hire Asians" and "I won't hire any one who voted for ______" any different than "I won't hire any one who doesn't want to take a vaccination that HASN'T even been approved by a corrupt and untrustworthy government"?

Be very, very careful what you wish for... (Tinkerbell won't approve... Actually from what I know of that character she might, but Mulan and Merida absolutely wouldn't!)

This is great!

Are you available for parties and do you charge by the hour?
 
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The courts already set a precedent.
Court rulings can be wrong. Constitutionality is a different matter. There is NO Constitutional basis for allowing companies to demand specific health measures.
 

spock8113

Well-Known Member
Let's be very clear here, the vaccine works. I know, I got it. I got the smallpox vaccine and the polio vaccine and all have unknown future side effects. But the disease is far worse than the medicine. This vaccine should have been a requirement long before the Delta variant (and future variants) was able to "find a way". Getting the vaccine is for the greater good, the needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few, do unto others, selflessness.
Also, the "government" tells you what to do all the time like:
1) kids getting the DPT and MMR shots before going to school required by the "government"
2) College students required by the "government" to get vaccines to attend school: https://www.acha.org/documents/resources/guidelines/ACHA_Immunization_Recommendations_May2020.pdf
3) In order to drive a car in EVERY state, a drivers license is required by the "government"
4) Every time you get in your car the "government" tells you to wear a seatbelt.
5) You MUST pay your taxes as dictated by the "government".
6) Every time you buy or sell real estate or stocks the "government" requires a written record.
7) Every medication, drink or cigarette we consume have side effects (as posted by the companies who manufacture them required by the "government."), many far worse than this vaccine.

And think about what the vaccine does the next time you order non-FDA approved virality pills or those magic "lose 200 Lbs. in 2 days" magic diet pills. There are dozens of Dr. Terminus's out there and we DO buy their stuff with no questions asked!

I understand that there are people with health problems or women who want to get pregnant who have real questions about the vaccine,
but normal healthy people need to "do their research" and pay a visit to your now over-loaded, over-worked and under-staffed ICU to see first hand how this virus ravages the body. While people procrastinate and waste their valuable time questioning the side effects of the vaccine, they might want to consider the long-term side-effects if you get the virus because we just don't know that either.
Also, the longer the Delta variant is around, the better the chance that the virus will once again "find a way" as nature always does to mutate to the "epsilon" variant which could be stronger than the Delta. Like the shark in "Jaws": “What we’re dealing with here is a perfect engine, an infecting machine. It’s really a miracle of evolution. All this virus does is swim, infect and make more little viruses and that’s all. Take a long close look at these new infections. Those numbers are correct."
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
US Federal Courts as recently as last month have agreed that employers can mandate COVID vaccine for employment. The EEOC has agreed they can do it. All they have to do is make reasonable accommodation for medical and religious. This is already settled law which is why so many employers are doing it.
All true. The EEOC ruling was the biggest news. The same people claiming it is illegal to require a vaccine for employment are a lot of the same ones who claimed HIPAA prevented anyone from asking about your vaccination status. It’s just parroting false information that someone posts on social media.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
This vaccine should have been a requirement long before the Delta variant (and future variants) was able to "find a way".

The Delta variant originated in India, the new Lambda variant (that unfortunately looks even more resistant to the vaccines) originated in Peru.

It would be nice if a US mandate could stop this but this is a global pandemic and in many ways we are just along for the ride regardless of what we do.
 

ArmoredRodent

Well-Known Member
Court rulings can be wrong. Constitutionality is a different matter. There is NO Constitutional basis for allowing companies to demand specific health measures.
I know you probably think your position is correct, but, speaking as a constitutional lawyer, you are very likely wrong. At least since 1905, or depending how you view the question, even earlier, the U.S. Supreme Court (which, as they say, is not final because it's right, but is right because it is final) held that there is NO constitutional right to opt out of a vaccination mandate. Jacobson v. Mass., 197 U.S. 11 (1905); see, also, Railroad Company v. Husen, 95 U.S. 465, 472 (1877) ("we unhesitatingly admit that a state may pass sanitary laws and laws for the protection of life, liberty, health, or property within its borders.").

In Jacobson, the Court said:
"But the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States to every person within its jurisdiction does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy. Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others. This court has more than once recognized it as a fundamental principle that 'persons and property are subjected to all kinds of restraints and burdens, in order to secure the general comfort, health, and prosperity of the State, of the perfect right of the legislature to do which no question ever was, or upon acknowledged general principles ever can be, made so far as natural persons are concerned.'" Jacobson, 197 U.S. at 26 [cleaned up]. "Even liberty itself, the greatest of all rights, is not unrestricted license to act according to one's own will. It is only freedom from restraint under conditions essential to the equal enjoyment of the same right by others. It is then liberty regulated by law." Id., 197 U.S. at 26-27.

In terms that are equally applicable today, the Jacobson Court continued: "The authority to determine for all what ought to be done in such an emergency must have been lodged somewhere or in some body, and surely it was appropriate for the legislature to refer that question, in the first instance, to a Board of Health, composed of persons residing in the locality affected and appointed, presumably, because of their fitness to determine such questions. To invest such a body with authority over such matters was not an unusual nor an unreasonable or arbitrary requirement. Upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members. It is to be observed that, when the regulation in question was adopted, smallpox, according to the recitals in the regulation adopted by the Board of Health, was prevalent to some extent in the city of Cambridge, and the disease was increasing. If such was the situation -- and nothing is asserted or appears in the record to the contrary -- if we are to attach any value whatever to the knowledge which, it is safe to affirm, is common to all civilized peoples touching smallpox and the methods most usually employed to eradicate that disease, it cannot be adjudged that the present regulation of the Board of Health was not necessary in order to protect the public health and secure the public safety." Id., 197 U.S. at 27-28.

And, of course, if a State has the authority to mandate vaccination, absent a prohibition by the State of such a mandate (similar to what Florida has in place right now), a private employer can follow the State's direction to protect its own employees. It is not required to do so, but the Constitution does not prohibit it from doing so. I have pointed out in another post the evolution of the reviews the courts have been using to consider these questions over time; suffice it to say that the courts were more deferential earlier in the pandemic, but are increasingly requiring governments to provide more specific and concrete evidence of harm and narrowly-tailored remedies. See, e.g., Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn v. Cuomo, November 2020.

Perhaps you meant to say that some statute forbids an employer from doing so, as Florida does for customers (but not for employees). There have been several lawsuits filed in various states that make that claim. For example, employees at Houston Methodist Hospital in Texas (Bridges v. Houston Methodist Hospital), Dona Ana Detention Center in New Mexico (Legaretta v. Macias), and Los Angeles County schools in California (California Educators for Medical Freedom v. Los Angeles Unified School District) have all argued that their employers’ requirements that they get the COVID-19 vaccine or face termination amounts to compelling them to participate in a medical experiment in violation of their rights under federal law because the FDA has not yet formalized an authorization of use for the vaccines. So far, none of those claims has been successful, and on June 12, 2021, the United States District Court for the Southern District of Texas dismissed all of the claims brought against Houston Methodist Hospital. The other cases will likely be mooted out of court as the FDA is racing to authorize at least the Pfizer vaccine, and Moderna looks like it will quickly follow. Even if the question is not moot for other vaccines, it is a steep uphill challenge to say that this interpretation of federal law is correct, when the CDC and other federal agencies have long said, in words of the CDC: "The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not mandate vaccination. However, whether a state, local government, or employer, for example, may require or mandate COVID-19 vaccination is a matter of state or other applicable law.” Similarly, the EEOC says that “The federal EEO laws do not prevent an employer from requiring all employees physically entering the workplace to be vaccinated for COVID-19,” so long as employers allow for legally required reasonable accommodations for employees with disabilities or religious beliefs that do not allow for vaccinations.

I would be happy to hear any other basis for your claim that the Constitution does not provide a basis for an employer vaccination mandate, but given the Supreme Court's unwavering finding that the Constitution permits mandatory vaccination, I would hope that you could cite to a specific U.S. Supreme Court decision. That's because only the Supreme Court itself can overrule a Supreme Court constitutional interpretation, and lower courts are bound by that until the Supreme Court itself does so. See Hohn v. United States, 524 U.S. 236, 252–53 (1998) (“Our decisions remain binding precedent until we see fit to reconsider them, regardless of whether subsequent cases have raised doubts about their continuing vitality.”).

UPDATE: On August 2, in Klaassen v. Trustees of Indiana University, No. 21-2326 (7th Cir., Aug. 2, 2021), the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit rejected a challenge by students objecting to a vaccine requirement to return to class, citing Jacobson and saying: "there can't be a constitutional problem with vaccination under SARS-CoV-2." Slip op. at 2.
 
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DfromATX

Well-Known Member
And I know zero people who have had any kind of adverse reaction in my entire circle of family friends, and coworkers and I am in senior management at a company, there have been no incidents among our employees despite a very high vaccination rate.

None of this is data. There is also zero correlation between stroke and the vaccine. People do have strokes for othe reasons, you know. So far, the only adverse reactions are:

* Allergic reaction in first 15 minutes
* Blood clots with the J&J vaccine for certain women- very low incidence rate
* Mild and easily treatable myocarditis in young men - at a much lessened severity and much lower rate than myocarditis resulting from Covid in the same age group.

That is it. No other significant adverse reactions have been linked to the vaccines. The FDA investigates reported incidences to determine if there is a link, and if there is, they have been diligent in reporting it as above.
My healthy, strong 18 year old son caught Covid last January, then he had lingering heart palpitations. Only in the last couple of months did they finally stop. That was enough to convince us to get vaccinated. My whole immediate family got vaccinated including my 93 year old mother-in-law. No side effects. In fact, I was the only one who got sick the next day with fever and chills, but that only lasted one day and it was expected. There's only one person in my family who hasn't been vaccinated yet - my 23 year old stepdaughter, who at this very moment has her SECOND case of Covid. She said after she recovers she plans to finally get vaccinated.

I personally know 2 people who have passed away due to Covid. One was an older person, age 66 and he had other health issues, but the other one was a healthy, young mother, who left behind 4 kids and her husband. To me, it's a no-brainer. I don't know what more people need to see before they will get vaccinated.
 

Mousse'

Member
This is all lies and conspiracy theory...






Because it's all lies and conspiracy theory without proof.



Where's the big money pay-off the FDA is getting? When you only focus on the pharma company and claim that money distorts reality, then you must obviously trust the FDA which isn't becoming billionaires based on its work. Your logic is self-contradicting.
Honestly, there is no reliable source of information any one can believe in. The government is perceived as untrustworthy through both evil and incompetence (e.g. the 2020 election, the Bush v Gore issue, past problems with FDA approvals, the shear insanity we encounter from them in our daily lives … I read one today where a man was forced to pay child support for a kid DNA said wasn’t his… come on…). Private Industry to me is generally more responsible as they have the risk of getting sued, censured, etc… but in a case like this where they have been indemnified all bets are off. And “science”? They’re academics right? The same people who run/exist on the universities we all see with safe spaces, no free speech, and where it’s “publish or perish” and you only get published if you say the correct things as opposed to the accurate things.

Its all just a reflection of the world we live in… the odd part is why we haven’t hit the “focal” event yet that will make the bottom drop out. It wasn’t a ”hated“ administration, a “questionable“ election, or apparently a (in my opinion) insanely misinformed and mismanaged response to a bug… maybe it will be the gun grab, outlawing of gasoline, or the 401k cash grab to keep Medicare and Medicaid running…
 

Mousse'

Member
Maybe you could be the first to actually define what information is missing to make approval trustworthy.
Good question! A 24-36 month RCT against a broad spectrum of volunteers, regionally and geographically diverse, conducted by a trustworthy, independent and reputable third party. (Not Pharma who want to sell a drug and not government who doesn’t care if it kills or maims 2% of the population but saves the other 98%). That would be reasonable start to move from experimental and full voluntary use to something that could be mandated IF the results were positive and conclusive. (Effective and safe). Right now, I doubt you’d get there as the vaccine is not as effective as “they“ would have you believe (…again, these are the same people saying a paper mask prevents the transmission of a virus), the actual risk of the virus is low (morbidity and mortality), and the virus is devolving as they typically do (more contagious and less lethal). I’ve said it before: Covid is the new flu… it will be with us forever and you won’t have a vaccine more effective that the traditional annual flu shot until something new and amazing come along (I.e. an effective way to combat amy virus).
 

Mousse'

Member
Private company, their rules, don't comply then one's employment may be a short one.
Generally I’d agree, if not for general necessitated applicability (I.e. How does having or not having a high-risk, potentially ineffective medical procedure impair your ability to effectively do your job?). Then it comes down to coercion, which is tantamount to extortion. The latest late night lawyer ads for the next few decades will be “did you lose your job because an employer insisted you take the EUA Covid vax?”
 

DisAl

Well-Known Member
This is a bad idea, as the vaccine still only has emergency authorization, u til fully FDA approved, no one should be allowed to make it mandatory and even then, there are issues with that.

While it may seem insignificant, there have been over 2,000 deaths (some report over 12,000) caused by the vaccines. Not to mention other very serious complications, some long lasting, I know personally one person who is likely to have life long complications caused by the vaccine and if I personally know someone in my small circle, it is highly likely that there are a lot more. Until we understand why some people die or have serious complications, we shouldn't be making vaccines mandatory and even then there should be exemptions for those that are likely to have complications.

Then there's the fact that the vaccine companies are immune from being sued for such complications or even death. Again, until this is addressed, NO vaccine should be able to be made mandatory for anyone.
I don't know anyone who has died from the vaccine but I do personally know six who have died from the virus. Even if the numbers above are correct millions have died from the virus.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The time for rhetoric and debate is over. The majority of adults (70.6% now) have decided to at least start the vaccine. The minority left need to follow. We tired it with the carrot approach with free donuts and beer and lotteries and some states even offering guaranteed money. It’s time for the stick. I didn’t want to see it happen this way, but it’s where we are. Disney is among the front runners on this requirement but it’s going to become more and more popular and once full FDA approval is in it will become the majority. The hope that people could just avoid the vaccine and we’d still get out of this pandemic was dashed by the delta variant. It’s not going to happen that way. We need many more people to get vaccinated. Once the majority of employers are requiring vaccinations if that doesn’t work to move the needle enough then I could see full on vaccine passports becoming the norm for places where the public gathers. For people who say that will never happen (I was one of them as recently as June) did you ever think a major company like Disney would require employees to be vaccinated? Disney is obsessed with their brand image and doesn‘t make a move without considering the impact. I’m sure their internal polling was showing the same thing as the public polling. The majority of Americans support these types of requirements.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Like I said, the time for rhetoric is over. Disney is requiring their employees to be fully vaccinated and they will be far from the only company doing it. Nothing that anyone here or anywhere else says will change that and they have the will of the people on their side. Like it or not it’s the reality we are living in. People were given every opportunity to freely choose to be vaccinated and that failed so we’ve moved on to plan B.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
US Federal Courts as recently as last month have agreed that employers can mandate COVID vaccine for employment. The EEOC has agreed they can do it. All they have to do is make reasonable accommodation for medical and religious. This is already settled law which is why so many employers are doing it.
Hepatitis A vaccinations have been a requirement for food service employees in Nevada since the late 90s.

This is settled law, it has been settled for decades.

My employer is struggling to reach the 70% covid vaccination threshold in the food and beverage departments required to stay at 100% capacity, this despite the fact every single person who works in that department was required to get the Hepatitus A vaccination when they were hired. We live in weird times.
 

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