Clever Name
Well-Known Member
I love the smell of diesel in the morning!
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Disney to begin testing an electric bus this summer
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Who doesn't???
jt04
Well-Known Member
Maybe they will add simulated diesel smell to make the experience more immersive.
alphac2005
Well-Known Member
Biased? Clearly you're no fan of this technology because that's what your spin is, biased.
You are cherry picking Honda. Period. Honda's issues have been known for several years, but they aren't indicative of the whole industry, whatsoever. I have a cousin that has a Civic Hybrid and the car is so faulty that they end up getting -1 MPG vs. the non-hybrid. These are Honda issues with the Civic through the '11 model year. It's been known for many years, but you make some broad indictment of hybrid technology when claiming that they have such high failure rates. Honda's Civic does because they put forth a piece of garbage, period. For the '12 model year and beyond, they switched to lithium-ion batteries.
The issue with Honda, which they began with using on the Insight I believe around 2000, is that it's most likely not an issue with the batteries, but flaws in their now dropped IMA system then causing these battery issues, which also should be noted isn't a true hybrid system because those Honda's can't actually accelerate on electric only, it requires the gas engine. Out of around 2.1 million hybrids sold in last decade or so in the States, around 214k were Honda Civics. No claims of failures have happened with any numbers of substance of any vehicle but the Honda that accounted for 10% of the total hybrids sold. That's poor product development with their system and shouldn't slam an entire industry where 90% of the vehicles sold have a failure rate of 0.000025 excluding 1st gen. Prius as I don't recall the total number of vehicles sold of that model.
alphac2005
Well-Known Member
You've criticized battery components in crashes as being unsafe, yet hydrogen, while you are completely right is technically the one if not the best solution, um, there is a little problem with safe hydrogen storage on vehicles that has the whole concept not viable until that is established. I'd call hydrogen a tad more unsafe than others....
Which is exactly why it is not on the road yet. People are all about the laughable hybrids. Best marketing folly if there has ever been one.
Someone who is in touch with reality here! Touche, sir! We can always talk about the Lithium mining and its effects in the environment as well. But shhhhhhhh those words are not to be spoken. What about windmills that stick out of gorgeous landscape and displace ecosystems in a large fashion? That surely is the end all as well!
JeffH
Active Member
Much better than the "gas" powered bus drivers we now have, peeuuu...
Hate to see where the charger hooks up to, ouch.
I imagine that an electric bus driver would deliver shocking Disney rumors.
And he'd really be charged up to see guests in the morning.
Wonder if they're Wi-Fi capable and offers Internet access?
AC or DC or do they go both ways?
JeffH
Active Member
True, however in some circumstances this would work...like a day at Disney...drive up, using most of your mileage, then during the day in the parking lot your car would get a pretty good recharge for your return home. And there are some solar cells that much more efficient than those you might commercially put on the roof of your house. And you could triple your recharge if 2 additional panels slid out from the main panel mounted on your roof, one sliding down over your front window, and the other down your back window. They would also keep your car interior from getting too hot.
PeterMarcus
Active Member
On the first page of this thread, I mentioned central Florida used mainly natural gas, oil, and nuclear, because I looked at FPL only. I forgot about Progress Energy, which does use a lot of coal and I stand corrected, PeterAlt is right about the coal.
According to the US Energy Administration, as of 2011: Florida used 62% natural gas, 23% coal, 9.8% nuclear, 2.2% solar, and the remaining 3% made up of "other" (I believe oil is a chunk of that 3%).
I know in the last couple years, the move has been toward more natural gas in Florida and less on oil. Also, Turkey Point has also just finished an upgrade/expansion of it's four current nuclear reactors and has been approved to build two more, to be completed in 10 years or so, assuming they don't get blocked.
Read that exact same article within a couple days of its release. Very very very pathetic. The comfort GREEN measures that so many see as positives are nothing more than shifting one bad (but is it really) effect to another that is sometimes worse.
One of the closest the US has to Fukishima is San Onofre which is directly on the beach. Odds of that style of event happening here are LIMITED. Fear mongers do their job well, though. The others seem to be in very strategic locales. I have one within 15 miles true distance from my house. Good reliable power. Remind me again why Yuka Mtn was canned? Oh yea... I know.
DarthDisney
Member
Electric cars suck! And Hybrids have the cost of any car that has two engines. These buses will be within the internal routes of some Resorts. I doubt they will ever be seen making runs from MK to AOA 40 times a day.
Solar power??? Come on people, they have been beating that drum for decades, even with huge government subsidies it is still wildly expensive and produces very little power for dollars spent. Even China loses money on Solar panels.
And do not get upset, one day Hydrogen cars or CNG will hopefully make their appearance in a grand scale. They are the only real alternatives to oil. As far as electricity, we should thank the lucky stars, God, or your mother , that you live in a country so rich in Coal and NG, this has made it possible for us to have such cheaper rates of electricity than that of Europe. Energy Prices decide what kind of economy you have. Cheap allows it to Grow, High makes it stagnant . India gets this, so does china, we used to get it, now we just believe bumper stickers.
Solar power??? Come on people, they have been beating that drum for decades, even with huge government subsidies it is still wildly expensive and produces very little power for dollars spent. Even China loses money on Solar panels.
And do not get upset, one day Hydrogen cars or CNG will hopefully make their appearance in a grand scale. They are the only real alternatives to oil. As far as electricity, we should thank the lucky stars, God, or your mother , that you live in a country so rich in Coal and NG, this has made it possible for us to have such cheaper rates of electricity than that of Europe. Energy Prices decide what kind of economy you have. Cheap allows it to Grow, High makes it stagnant . India gets this, so does china, we used to get it, now we just believe bumper stickers.
Truth spoken again. Loving this input, flat out loving it. When batteries need replacing they are running a few thousand upward. Most cars can have a new engine and possibly transmission for that cost. Think about how many miles these busses rack up. 100k-150k life on batteries is just not suitable.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Facts:
- Nissan Leaf has a 24 KW battery
- On the conservative side you get about 75 miles on a single charge
- It takes about 4 hours to charge using a standard LEAF charger (6 KW per hour)
- A quick charging station can charge your battry over half full in about 30 mins
- If you combine five 5' X 3' 200 watt commercially avaialbe solar panels you would produce 1 KW of power per hour.
- Based on my math 30 panels would produce the 6KW per hour needed to charge the Leaf.
- If there are 12 hours of sunlight a day and you staggered the charging you could charge 3 Nissan Leafs a day or 225 combined miles of driving with 30 panels.
But, if you ramp up to scale it seems more practical. Consider the MK parking lot is allegedly 125 acres (got this online so not sure if its accurate) which equates to 5.5 million square feet. If they chose to blanket the MK parking lot with solar panels it would be enough to produce almost 75,000 KW/hr which is enough power to charge 12,500 Nissan Leafs over 4 hours. With 12 hours of sunlight a day and staggering the charges you could charge 37,500 Leafs a day or the equivalent of over 2.8 million miles of driving. A bus would take more power than a Leaf, but they probably aren't putting close to 3 million miles a day on the bus fleet either. It seems conceivable that they could power a fleet of electric busses using solar panels covering only 1 parking lot.
Yeah...I would not exactly call China and India great examples for how to generate electricity.
DarthDisney
Member
Yeah...I would not exactly call China and India great examples for how to generate electricity.
That is pollution from their Iphone Factories more than likely LOL. They have no pollution control at all. Smaller villages are far worse than the cities. I did not say we needed no type of standards, just do not need to make up problems where there are none.
China also has Slavery, and a Police state. I would not copy any of that , well we are copying the Police state part it seems.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but they know how to run an efficient transportation system:Yeah...I would not exactly call China and India great examples for how to generate electricity.
Okay, so here it comes.
The WDW Resort transportation infrastructure is obviously aging poorly. In a perfect world, the expansion of the Monorail system to include DHS, DAK, DD (Springs) would be ideal. Tying the Monorail system into the “eventual” high-speed rail link from MCO and maybe further destinations would be icing on the cake. Do I think that it theoretically could be accomplished; sure. Will it; Nope.
The fact that the WDW Resort is expanding with new DVC locations and possible Park additions like Avatar and maybe even CarsLand or some Lucas product is just adding a bigger burden on the strapped system. All the individual point-to-point buses are limited, especially at peak times.
I would propose the next step to the electric buses. TrolleyBus. Semi-automated, bi-Articulated buses have three sections, can have a real-time capacity from 165-200 passengers depending on layout and can be powered through a multitude of means: diesel, diesel/NatGas, diesel/battery hybrid/catenary (group or hanging), or eventually, fuel cells. Each source has its pros and cons. Ideally in the short-term, natural gas would seem like the best. It’s reasonably priced, rather plentiful domestically and requires minimal conversion or maintenance changes when compared to straight diesel. Also, it’s carbon output is cleaner and smaller than kerosene/diesel. Long-term, a move towards diesel-NG/hybrid would be ideal when battery development can meet the higher cycle and usage rate for this application.
The present infrastructure is well maintained but refocusing more guests into “public” transportation may dictate a new series of dedicated pathways limited to resort transportation. With the new vehicles, a redesigned Hub-n-Spoke system moving people from one Resort region to another may make sense.
Don’t even get me started on the implementation of the PRT’s for group and individual travel point-to-point. Using the same power grid and pathways, theses pods would add a more convenient and entertaining ride for guests. The would operate purely on system need, charge at hubs, and could possible generate some income for guests not willing to utilize the Trolleybus system.
Sorry for the long response…..
The WDW Resort transportation infrastructure is obviously aging poorly. In a perfect world, the expansion of the Monorail system to include DHS, DAK, DD (Springs) would be ideal. Tying the Monorail system into the “eventual” high-speed rail link from MCO and maybe further destinations would be icing on the cake. Do I think that it theoretically could be accomplished; sure. Will it; Nope.
The fact that the WDW Resort is expanding with new DVC locations and possible Park additions like Avatar and maybe even CarsLand or some Lucas product is just adding a bigger burden on the strapped system. All the individual point-to-point buses are limited, especially at peak times.
I would propose the next step to the electric buses. TrolleyBus. Semi-automated, bi-Articulated buses have three sections, can have a real-time capacity from 165-200 passengers depending on layout and can be powered through a multitude of means: diesel, diesel/NatGas, diesel/battery hybrid/catenary (group or hanging), or eventually, fuel cells. Each source has its pros and cons. Ideally in the short-term, natural gas would seem like the best. It’s reasonably priced, rather plentiful domestically and requires minimal conversion or maintenance changes when compared to straight diesel. Also, it’s carbon output is cleaner and smaller than kerosene/diesel. Long-term, a move towards diesel-NG/hybrid would be ideal when battery development can meet the higher cycle and usage rate for this application.
The present infrastructure is well maintained but refocusing more guests into “public” transportation may dictate a new series of dedicated pathways limited to resort transportation. With the new vehicles, a redesigned Hub-n-Spoke system moving people from one Resort region to another may make sense.
Don’t even get me started on the implementation of the PRT’s for group and individual travel point-to-point. Using the same power grid and pathways, theses pods would add a more convenient and entertaining ride for guests. The would operate purely on system need, charge at hubs, and could possible generate some income for guests not willing to utilize the Trolleybus system.
Sorry for the long response…..
Bryner84
Well-Known Member
Here in Chattanooga, there has been a free electric shuttle for the downtown loop for several years. Actually it is one of the largest fleet of electric busses operating in the country. Just a small component of the city's transformation from being described as one of this country's most polluted cities to now one of the most sought after locations for businesses and residents alike.
This isn't exactly new cutting edge technology and I would imagine Disney's trial should be a mere formality rather than one to see if it will work. If a city such as Chattanooga has been using it for years, the research and feasibility is there and the cost of the technology has lowered to the point it is now (at least somewhat) financially lucrative to make this switch. I think the idea they seem to have is right. This technology is best used for internal resort loops, shorter distances, and it seems cast member transportation as well. It isn't the answer to the ever increasing fleet of busses the resort is becoming more and more dependent on, but it is a positive step and should have financial benefits for them as well as good publicity.
What I don't understand is all the hating on hybrids. When they were introduced, the initial cost outweighed any savings on fuel, but as the technology becomes more readily available the financial incentive to go hybrid becomes more enticing. Being green and being reasonable don't have to be mutually exclusive. Before being widely adopted, green technologies should be advanced enough in their engineering that the cost is not prohibitive and should be proven to work, but it's hard to fault anyone for taking the steps towards being eco conscious. Skepticism is one of the many battles we face in moving beyond dependency on traditional energy sources.
This isn't exactly new cutting edge technology and I would imagine Disney's trial should be a mere formality rather than one to see if it will work. If a city such as Chattanooga has been using it for years, the research and feasibility is there and the cost of the technology has lowered to the point it is now (at least somewhat) financially lucrative to make this switch. I think the idea they seem to have is right. This technology is best used for internal resort loops, shorter distances, and it seems cast member transportation as well. It isn't the answer to the ever increasing fleet of busses the resort is becoming more and more dependent on, but it is a positive step and should have financial benefits for them as well as good publicity.
What I don't understand is all the hating on hybrids. When they were introduced, the initial cost outweighed any savings on fuel, but as the technology becomes more readily available the financial incentive to go hybrid becomes more enticing. Being green and being reasonable don't have to be mutually exclusive. Before being widely adopted, green technologies should be advanced enough in their engineering that the cost is not prohibitive and should be proven to work, but it's hard to fault anyone for taking the steps towards being eco conscious. Skepticism is one of the many battles we face in moving beyond dependency on traditional energy sources.