NewfieFan
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but they know how to run an efficient transportation system:
Sure that's what the bus looks like now if you leave the MK after the fireworks...
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Disney to begin testing an electric bus this summer
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Sure that's what the bus looks like now if you leave the MK after the fireworks...
Bryner84
Well-Known Member
Ah, sorry...clarification. I wasn't referring to Disney's hate of hybrids. It seems hybrids were getting some flack on this forum. I agree with limiting the electric bus to the shorter routes.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Hybrids are doable in short, slow routes. I've seen them used on a lot of College Campus's, but, when one considers the initial cost, it is usually just the small usage people that can even consider it and they have to be non-profit with a government supplement to offset it. I've never looked into it but my thinking is that the cost of replacing the power storage units (batteries) would knock your socks off.
Nubs70
Well-Known Member
Why do I hate hybrids? You are paying for 2 power plants when you only need one.
As for solar panels, most financial justifications only take into account the cost of the panels (not backing out federal and state subsidies), not including installation, assume no maintenance costs, do not account for the expected lifespan of the panels (approximately 18 years), and derived the "dollar savings'" as amount of money if electricity generated is bought from the grid ( not sold to) at market rates not the difference in $ between solar and fossil generated electricity.
In my current local, the city erected a 20'x300' solar grid over a car pool lot. The officials patted themselves on how much money it would save. Using the officials grade 3 economic analysis (something more than rose colored glasses), the payback would be 65 years, over 3 times longer than the lifespan of the panels they installed. If rational financial analysis were conducted, the project would not reach break even during the lifetime of the grandchild of a child born today. Solar power is simply not economically justified when cheaper alternatives exist.
As for solar panels, most financial justifications only take into account the cost of the panels (not backing out federal and state subsidies), not including installation, assume no maintenance costs, do not account for the expected lifespan of the panels (approximately 18 years), and derived the "dollar savings'" as amount of money if electricity generated is bought from the grid ( not sold to) at market rates not the difference in $ between solar and fossil generated electricity.
In my current local, the city erected a 20'x300' solar grid over a car pool lot. The officials patted themselves on how much money it would save. Using the officials grade 3 economic analysis (something more than rose colored glasses), the payback would be 65 years, over 3 times longer than the lifespan of the panels they installed. If rational financial analysis were conducted, the project would not reach break even during the lifetime of the grandchild of a child born today. Solar power is simply not economically justified when cheaper alternatives exist.
JungleTrekFan
Active Member
1)
2)
3)
I truly believe converting to an all electric transportation economy would be best for us as it is the most versatile and stable. We can get electricity from many different sources and they will always be more efficient and have less emissions than any automobile. Also drastically less direct emissions, which cause many health issues.
4)
I also think that the newest head of transportation has been making a good amount change in the past couple years to truly advance WDW. Any implementation of electric busses could create a great change at WDW.
5)
Has anyone heard of PRT, personal rapid transit? I believe that PRT could definitely be an amazing form of transportation with WDW being a great area for usage. (Disclaimer: I don’t think PRT could do the job of transporting every guest everywhere, but an amazing way to compliment the current system and redirect some traffic off the road.)
Vectus PRT is my personal favorite, over ULTra or 2getthere, for many reasons. It travels on a metal guideway, not concrete. It does not need complicated algorithms for precise turning (into stations or turning onto other guideway, etc.) and (theoretically) should then be able to turn at much faster speeds than these other two. Also it is the only current PRT manufacturer that is promoting the use of GRT vehicles in conjunction with PRT vehicles on one system. This makes the system vastly more versatile and useful.
If this video’s opening music doesn’t make you smile, maybe the fact that it proves that PRT and GRT both work perfectly will. It even shows how they can work together on one, unusually versatile, track.
(If you can’t tell I’m a transportation geek
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I totally agree. What is the point of making a new car if your just going to make it twice as complicated and thus lead to more possibility of issues. I’d rather a Tesla or Lit Motors C-1, where the motors are drastically less complicated and need much less upkeep than gasoline alternatives. (And to paraphrase Ellon Musk, Major auto motives are not incentivized to sell electric cars, in fact they are incentivized to see them fail. So i wouldn’t trust a company that wants my car to not work.
2)
While i might disagree that solar has more advantages than disadvantages, i do agree that current systems are too expensive for such little output. But technology is always advancing so solar panels will continue to decrease in price and increase in efficiency.
3)
I truly believe converting to an all electric transportation economy would be best for us as it is the most versatile and stable. We can get electricity from many different sources and they will always be more efficient and have less emissions than any automobile. Also drastically less direct emissions, which cause many health issues.
4)
I also think that the newest head of transportation has been making a good amount change in the past couple years to truly advance WDW. Any implementation of electric busses could create a great change at WDW.
5)
Has anyone heard of PRT, personal rapid transit? I believe that PRT could definitely be an amazing form of transportation with WDW being a great area for usage. (Disclaimer: I don’t think PRT could do the job of transporting every guest everywhere, but an amazing way to compliment the current system and redirect some traffic off the road.)
Vectus PRT is my personal favorite, over ULTra or 2getthere, for many reasons. It travels on a metal guideway, not concrete. It does not need complicated algorithms for precise turning (into stations or turning onto other guideway, etc.) and (theoretically) should then be able to turn at much faster speeds than these other two. Also it is the only current PRT manufacturer that is promoting the use of GRT vehicles in conjunction with PRT vehicles on one system. This makes the system vastly more versatile and useful.
If this video’s opening music doesn’t make you smile, maybe the fact that it proves that PRT and GRT both work perfectly will. It even shows how they can work together on one, unusually versatile, track.
(If you can’t tell I’m a transportation geek
)
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Not at all true. There are still oil plants in the US. There are also duel fuel plants that can burn both oil and nat gas. The total power generated from oil is probably less than 5% but they do exist. In areas local emissions rules may prevent the use of oil for power plants. They are almost always more expensive to run than nat gas or coal so they rarely run and are mostly kept around for grid reliability. Back in 2008 when nat gas spiked to over $13 per mmbtu a lot of older oil plants were turned on since they became cheaper than gas plants. The last few years with nat gas under $4 per mmbtu not much run time.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Good post I am only highlighting the quote below, but I liked the whole thing. The new Tesla model X looks really cool. A little out of my budget, but maybe some day.
Almost all sources of electricity are domestic. Moving away from gasoline powered cars also allows us to reduce and/or eliminate our dependence on middle eastern oil. Electricity is "manufactured" locally so you are buying an American product.
. Almost all sources of electricity are domestic. Moving away from gasoline powered cars also allows us to reduce and/or eliminate our dependence on middle eastern oil. Electricity is "manufactured" locally so you are buying an American product.
willtravel
Well-Known Member
And don't forget the killing of birds with windmills.
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Alright, I have to post it:
alphac2005
Well-Known Member
What you've posted is simply fiction. Absolute fiction. For example, a quarter of all energy in Germany is now from renewable energy and the majority of homes are outfitted with solar panels even though Germany is known for not such a sunny sky. More than 10% of all homes in Australia have panels.
Secondly, subsidies are being phased out all over the world because the cost of the panels have collapsed. The one issue that is going on with in the industry is that there are cheap Chinese panels that are failing in 2-3 years because of their typical cost-cutting and lack of building a quality product. The cost for the consumer is less than the price of conventional energy and with the rapidly collapsing pricing even if tax breaks were curtailed or pulled over the next few years, you still would have a positive return on your investment in a few years.
Thirdly, they actually produce an enormous amount of energy per dollar, but the issue has been is how this energy can be captured and sent throughout the grid, essentially storing it. Storage is what is being worked on.
Solar panel companies in this country MAKE money. China chooses to lose money because they are currently subsidizing the market to become the dominant producer knocking off the competition. We have a solar panel manufacturer and installer down the road from me and trust me, they generate plenty of profit.
I love how there have been so many grand statements in this thread about alternative energy and they are factually devoid of, well, facts.
meyeet
Well-Known Member
We all know how much money these companies have made: First Solar, Abound Solar, Solyndra, and Willard & Kelsey Solar Group
Of course that money came from the taxpayers!
You know what else would reduce that dependency?
alphac2005
Well-Known Member
I guess this thread should just stop because it's now being taken down the carnival that is political. It would be nice to talk about these things without injecting political nonsense. This is where people get tired of talking and posting when you try to talk about things with facts and comments like yours come flying out of the gate. But, I guess we can just throw around political talking points and also fail to acknowledge the truth that the government has always provided seed money for research and forays into new industries that have spawned all sorts of wonderful PRIVATE enterprises. Ugh.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Efficient and cost effective storage would be an absolute game changer in the utility space.
Here is an interesting read on the future impact of solar and renewable power:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterde...ect-us-electric-utilities/?ss=business:energy
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
How about an electric tram for the parking lots? Think of it...no more ear-shattering noise, no more gag-me gas fumes...
How about an electric tram for the parking lots? Think of it...no more ear-shattering noise, no more gag-me gas fumes...
I for one would love to see that.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Its a limited test. Fort Wilderness only so far. Very limited.
Here's the bus in question. http://www.proterra.com/
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
It could be as competitive as humanly possible at the moment, this company still only looks at quarterly profits.
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
How about an electric tram for the parking lots? Think of it...no more ear-shattering noise, no more gag-me gas fumes...
Actually I think it would be more efficient (not sure on cost though) to have moving walkways like at airports or the Universal parking garage.