Disney Theme Park Failures?

[3IAlienKid]

Dino-Rama.
Discovery Boats, later w/ Radio Disney makeover.

And from out here on the west coast, the Disneyland Circus, one of Walt Disney's few failures. And the Flying Saucers can be counted a failure the same way Rocket Rods was -- pretty popular but a technological nightmare to maintain.

 

[TP2000]

The only thing that I could remember is the ride in DL that of you watch the videos shows balloons falling down. I don't remember the name.

I stared at that sentence for several minutes trying to figure out what Disneyland attraction you were trying to conjure up. And then it hit me... The Flying Saucers!

There was a Wonderful World of Color episode where they dumped a bunch of balloons onto the Flying Saucer flight deck as people were bumping around in them, and the balloons flew all over the place from the compressed air coming up from the floor. That has to be what you are referring to, right?

Now that the challenging brain scramble is over trying to figure out which ride you meant, I'm not sure we could consider The Flying Saucers a "failure". They operated from 1961 to 1966, and were only closed to facilitate the construction of New Tomorrowland that opened in 1967. Bob Gurr has mentioned in interviews that the ride system was challenging to get going when the ride first opened in '61 due to the delicate balance of the flappers feeding the compressed air to make the vehicles levitate off the ground, especially since they had no computer controls back then. But the Fying Saucer ride itself was always very popular with paying guests, and lasted much longer than many of the other attractions Walt built for Disneyland but that only stuck around for a year or two.

They were going to install them back into the same area when Tomorrowland reopened in May, 1967. They even recorded a narration of the Goodyear PeopleMover that mentioned looking down from you car and seeing the Flying Saucer ride. But during the construction phase they cancelled that plan and built an outdoor theater there instead. They edited the Flying Saucer reference out of the recorded PeopleMover narration before New Tomorrowland opened to the public sans the Flying Saucers, but I have a copy of the original WDI version on a CD that mentions the Flying Saucers. That area became Space Mountain by 1977.

And there's a laundry list of ideas if you want to tack about Disney theme park failures.... the rides and attractions Walt installed in Disneyland but that only lasted a relatively short time. Heck, just Tomorrowland alone has dozens of failed attraction concepts; Space Station X-1, The Viewliner, The Phantom Boats, Dutch Boy Color Gallery, Kohler Bathroom Of Tomorrow, Dairyland, etc., etc.

 

[CRO-Magnum]

From what I've witnessed it's not Imagineering...

It seems to me that the new class of immagineers can not come up with attractions that were so deep in story and original.

...it's the WOW factor constraint. Leadership, primarily under Eisner, wanted thrills at the lowest cost (hence going outside of Disney for major design components for the first time in history, even buying ready made rides). The budgets are set to attain the WOW factor but little else. Look at 95% of the attractions & parks post 1984 (excepting Indiana Jones attraction at Disneyland, Splash Mountain, Bug's Life and ToT). Management will buy technology, but not clever story telling because it takes too long and ends up being expensive. RNR is weak as is Great Moments at the Movies. Aladdin's Carpets, all of Dinoland pretty much, most of the Disney MGM Studios, Alien Encounter, New Tiki, Kali River Rapids, etc are all very weak. Soarin' isn't even themed for all intents and purposes - it's a novelty away from being the next attraction at the Museum of Science and Industry. Is that the best they could do?

Even those themed well with good stories don't go far enough - lots of opportunities were left on the table with ToT to enahnce the themeing of RNR(for example not unlike how Pirates and Haunted Mansion are complimentary in Disneyland). But then I felt the entire studios should have areas themed to movie genres (horror, action, romance, sci-fi, etc.)

I could go on, and perhaps I'm not making sense, but I agree for a different reason laying the blame at the feet of bean counters and not the Imagineers.

 

[Madison]

...it's the WOW factor constraint. Leadership, primarily under Eisner, wanted thrills at the lowest cost (hence going outside of Disney for major design components for the first time in history, even buying ready made rides).

I don't have a comprehensive list on hand, but many of Disneyland's early ride systems were developed outside the company by Arrow Development -- including many of its most significant. Arrow was also responsible for the design of most of Florida's Magic Kingdom ride systems.

 

[RM 34478]

Would People Consider Celebration To Be A Failure?

I was just reading all the replies and finding this to be very interesting. Not exactly "theme park" but, would you consider "Celebration" to have been a failure? Your thoughts..

 

[TP2000]

I don't have a comprehensive list on hand, but many of Disneyland's early ride systems were developed outside the company by Arrow Development -- including many of its most significant. Arrow was also responsible for the design of most of Florida's Magic Kingdom ride systems.

You're right. The myth that WDI never bought off the shelf ride systems and dressed them up until Eisner arrived is just that, a myth. Walt himself did it with Disneyland in the 1950's and 60's, and Walt's hand picked succesors did it with WDW in the 1970's.

I wish I could find that black and white picture of Walt standing with Richard Nunis and Joe Fowler looking at a new ride idea up at the Arrow Development factory. Richard was very young looking, sporting a crewcut and trying to look very serious, while the elders Walt and Joe were off to the side cracking up about something. It's a great picture regardless, but I was reminded of it when thinking of all the ride systems Walt bought from outside contractors like Arrow.

 

[AEfx]

Uh, Disneyland Paris was not a "failure".

The larger Disneyland Paris Resort overbuilt it's hotels and overspent in the begining; however, it is still the #1 tourist destination in all of Europe, and by just about any definition that is a success.

Disneyland Paris Park is actually in the running for the most beautiful, themed, detailed MK. They have superb adaptions of classic attrations (remember, these were built with 90's tech, not 60's, 70's, and 80's) like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan, Space Mountain. Their Pirates has the best human AA's before the new Pirates additions stateside, and their other dark rides are just a notch above what we have here.

Disney Studios Paris is not the best park in the world; in fact, it competes with DCA for "worst" (of course, worst for Disney is usually better than anyone else's best). It does have some great attractions (their RnR is awesome) but there is major development going on and hopefully someday it will develop more as a park.

However, even though it took them a decade to make it into the black financially and for the resorts to finally stop being the money-sinks they originally were, just about every other aspect of Disneyland Paris is a qualified success.

AEfx

 

[goofntink]

#1 Hiring Eisner
#2 Getting rid of Eisner sooner.

Any failures at the parks were due to his ideas for ruining...oops running of the company.

 

[ears2you]

Journey into Imagination with Figment
Ellen's Energy Adventure/Crisis
New Global Neighborhood
Innoventions
Mission:Space (the biggest of them all considering it was going to be Disney's next large franchise to place a clone in every resort that Disney owned)
The Enchanted Tiki Room: Under New Management

*gasp* Mission Space is not a failure! I've seen the thing with lines over an hour long OFF SEASON! The only failure in that ENTIRE park is the new Journey into Imagination. And that is only compared to the first version!

 

[DFD111]

The only failures that I can come up with are the following with some thoughts on improvements:

1. Disney-MGM Studios (Park was rushed to open due to Universal coming to Orlando and left for dead, thanks to Eisner, RnRCwAerosmith and TofT help very little, needs more rides, still only a half day park.)

2. Animal Kingdom (Decent Idea, just a little flat, needs more rides/attractions, feels like a bad over inflated version of Adventureland, just without the Tiki Room, the only good thing about this park is Everest, whole park can be done in about 3/4 of a day.)

3. Disney's Magical Express (*see my post under WDW > Travel on this topic)

4. Mickey's Toontown Fair (So much promise and possibility, could use more than just one ride and 1 Character Meet & Greet, could stand to have Roger Rabbitt's Car-toon spin added, even if it is on the other side of the railroad tracks, they could even add stuff for Scrooge McDuck and a few others to really make it worth while to go there, maybe playing in Scrooges "Money Bin" Ball pit for kids.)

5. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Removal (Should never have been removed, this was a classic Disney movie and ride, thats all I have to say)

6. Downtown Disney (Needs to be reorganized, very cramped, Too much non Disney stuff, ie Rainforest Cafe, Planet Hollywood, Virgin Megastore, AMC Movie theatre, these items to me are not Disney, they don't need to be on property, thanks Eisner you idiot)

7. Epcot - World Showcase (Needs RIDES!!!!, its very sad when the only two rides are Mexico, *Coughs* Its a small world south of the border *coughs*, and Norway, which is a close ride system to PotC. Would love to see a ride added onto Canada, and one to Germany, maybe even something to Morocco)

Well those are the areas that I see are Failures, those are just my opinions and you may not agree with them, so let me know what you think.

 

[jakeman]

Could we please ease up on the Eisner bashing? I don't think that there is any debate that the end of his tenure was somewhat lackluster, but he was in charge for a very long time. Throughout most of the 80s and all of the 90s, if I recall correctly.

It is always interesting to see that some of the people to denounce Eisner as the destroyer of magic, forget that the time they associate Walt Disney World at its prime was at the height of Eisner employment.

If you would like to point out specific examples of decisions that Eisner made and their negative impact on the company or the guest experience, go right ahead. Generic Eisner bashing is as about as useful to this thread as say he burns puppies.

Oh, and just because it made it into the parks, does not necessarily mean it was wholly Eisner's idea. Would that be his fault for lack of oversight? Maybe. However, that would be like saying it is the president's fault your social security office has crappy hours.

This is an interesting discussion. I would like to see it continue and not dissolve into another "Epcot has no soul left" and "Eisner is the devil thread".

One final note, I don't know enough about the company to state if anything is a sucess or failure. All I know is what I like...

 

[MJL]

I believe MS if a failure

I would definitely put MS in the failure column ... not because its a terrible ride (its actually kind of cool) though. The problem is that Disney spent north of a $100million on this ride, and I have never waited more than 10 minutes on it when Test Track has been 45 minutes or more. An attraction that costs that much should have THE longest lines in the park, and I dont think it EVER had longer lines than Test Track, and certainly never longer than Soarin has today (even 1 year after it opened).

Its a respectable attraction, but it never lived up to the hype in terms of popularity, and make no mistake Disney wouldnt have spent $100million if they knew the lines would be what they are today.

Lets face it ... Disney expected more from this ride.. hence, its a failure.

Lets also add Stitch GE as a blunder.

 

[minnie61650]

I was watching one of my favorite shows about Disneyworld that was on the Travel Channel. I believe it is simply called "Travel Channel Presents Walt Disney World." Anyway they were talking about competition and how "Disney can not afford to fail." This made it seem like Disney has never failed. That every idea is a winner. Don't get me wrong, I love everything about the mouse, but I thought this might be interesting to talk about. Here are some I thought about. These in my opinion were failures and were changed or discontinued rather quickly. Not a scheduled update. Your thoughts. I know there is more.

1. Rocket Rods at Disneyland
2. The Disney Institute
3. Journey Into Your Immagination
4. ????????

#3. Journey Into Your Immagination..........
was not a failure in fact it was a favorite of many for years.
The reason for the first redo was because of contract that Disney had with Kodak.

When Kodak sponsored the original Figment Disney signed a contract that the ride would be redone before the year 2000. For those of you never got to experience the original Figment or if you would like to relive it this is a great website.

http://figmentsimagination.com/

Here is an except from that website that explains why the Original Figment ride was Changed:

"It has been confirmed by a Disney source that the original Journey Into Imagination was closed due to a contract agreement between Kodak and Disney. The contract stated that JII was to be changed by the year 2000. The original JII, due to large amounts of projectors, sets, lighting and animatronics, was VERY expensive to maintain each year. JII was the most advanced attraction of its kind in the US when it opened in 1983. Even when it closed, the technology involved with producing the show was ahead of other theme park attractions. Many Imagineers were not at all happy about making the changes because they had fear that the new attraction would fail. Armed with a budget far less than they had to build the original JII, the replacement opened and the fans were not happy. WDI realized that mistakes were made but at this point, there is no physical way to return the attraction to its original state because of the way the building has been altered and the money that would be needed to do it is not there. The current budget to redo JIYI is still not enough to restore the magic we all miss. But we will be able to see Figment again! "




This excerpt is from this site:

http://waltdatedworld.bravepages.com/id37.htm

The chances of Figment making a full return looked bleak. Disney sold part of the ride props on eBay and used one of Dreamfinder's flying machines as a prop in the Mouse Gear store. Then the ride closed in the winter of 2002 for renovation and reopened in June of 2002 as Journey Into Imagination with Figment. While Eric Idle and the Imagination Institute are still featured, Figment has been added to every scene and a new version of One Little Spark is sung. Dreamfinder is still MIA but one of the lab office doors is now labeled as belonging to "Dean Finder".

 

[disney.co.nr]

#1 Hiring Eisner
#2 Getting rid of Eisner sooner.

Any failures at the parks were due to his ideas for ruining...oops running of the company.

Not true in the least. if it werent for his leadership the company (if it would still be around today) wouldnt be as strong. Again just because YOU dont like him doesnt mean he didnt do a good job. Look at the disney decade, which did wonderful things for the parks... don't talk unless you know what youre talking about!!

 

[Scooter]

ALong with some of the already mentioned attractions, I have always concidered The Wonders of Life pavillion a failure.

While some found Cranium Command, The Making of Me, and Body Wars to be entertaining, I always felt like there could have been much more done to the inside of the pavillion itself to entertain and/or educate families.

My family would walk into this pavillion, and just look around and stare. Aside from the 2 or 3 attractions, there really wasn't much else to do besides riding the exercise bikes.

If I remember correctly, when Wonders of Life first opened, there were lots of things to see and do, but for some reason, things just started disappearing until the end, when the pavillion was an in and out in five minute experience.
So sad...they was so much potential for this pavillion.

 

[DisneyRoxMySox]

Uh, Disneyland Paris was not a "failure".

The larger Disneyland Paris Resort overbuilt it's hotels and overspent in the begining; however, it is still the #1 tourist destination in all of Europe, and by just about any definition that is a success.

Disneyland Paris Park is actually in the running for the most beautiful, themed, detailed MK. They have superb adaptions of classic attrations (remember, these were built with 90's tech, not 60's, 70's, and 80's) like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan, Space Mountain. Their Pirates has the best human AA's before the new Pirates additions stateside, and their other dark rides are just a notch above what we have here.

Disney Studios Paris is not the best park in the world; in fact, it competes with DCA for "worst" (of course, worst for Disney is usually better than anyone else's best). It does have some great attractions (their RnR is awesome) but there is major development going on and hopefully someday it will develop more as a park.

However, even though it took them a decade to make it into the black financially and for the resorts to finally stop being the money-sinks they originally were, just about every other aspect of Disneyland Paris is a qualified success.

AEfx

I consider it a failure, because it's been close to bankruptcy twice, including 2005.

 

[prspeppers]

Horizions

Letting rides like Horizions, Motion, Imagination (the origional) Dreamflight, ect....dissapear over the years has been a huge failure on Disney's behalf. I understand times change, and that Disney can't cater to my generation forever, but I will always be fond of the omni-mover rides featuring the old audio animatronics. And I think there something positive to be said about the way those rides conveyed the messages of progress, community, and peace that is completely absent in most of the new disney rides today.

 

[CoffeeJedi]

Someone mentioned Dino-rama, again this is a case where WE don't like it, but its proven popular with people who don't care that its essentially a loud ugly, crass area (do you think that the average guest "gets it"?). Closing a favorite attraction, like Horizons, might suck, but its not a "failure".

I'm trying to think of actual investments that cost the company money and marketshare. Buying Fox Family (now ABC Family) comes to mind. It was one of the biggest complaints against Eisner. I think the channel's ratings have turned around, but I don't think its made a profit yet.

DisneyQuest is a failure though, all the nationwide locations have closed, and the DTD location is on thin ice. How much money did they lose on that?

 

[DisneyFanLS]

just because you don't like something, doesn't mean its a failure

Well said Coffee!!!!! :sohappy:

 

[CoffeeJedi]

thank you!
though, really, what i meant to say... was:

"Just because WE don't like something, doesn't mean its a failure."

It's a little more friendly-like Plus it does seem that most likes/dislikes are universal on the board (expect maybe Mission:Space, the great divider!)