Disney Theme Park Failures?

mrtoad

Well-Known Member
As mentioned already you can't say somethign is a failure because it failed to keep you interested but only if it failed to keep the majority interested. There are many things that I was dissapointed in but that does not mean that everybody else was dissapointed by them.

Journey can be considered a failure as it can't attract enough visitors. That is not saying that the original would still be packing them in, you will never know.

You can say Tiki Room is a failure but it had already stopped packing them in so maybe the concept as a whole does not play to today's crowd.

I could say the Magic Carpets are a failure but not because they don't pack a crowd, they surely do. The failure there was in selected an appropriete place to drop the ride. They failed in keeping a smooth flow to the area, instead it is very much a clogging spot in the traffic path.

Tomorrowland in general has been a failure in some way forever. Sure I love quite a few things in Tomorrowland but it has never felt complete and of all the MK lands it seems to draw the least crowds.

So I guess it depends on how you think of the word failure to give a good answer.

I will say that as a whole though, they have not failed at much. They are still king...
 

darthjohnny

Active Member
I would like to say something.

The Travel Channel was right. Disney can't afford to fail. It is held to a higher standard, because it started out holding itself to a higher standard.

Every Disney theme park around the world, with maybe the exception of Disney Sea, has been considered a failure when it first opened. Disneyland, MK, Epcot, Disney-MGM Studios, Animal Kingdom, Disneyland Paris, DCA, everything....

But they all have perservered and now, Disney holds like the top 6 places in Theme Park attendance.

Just because people on this forum think some rides are mistakes, doesn't mean that they are failures. Some rides, like Stitch, are loved by many, even though it is brutally attacked on these blogs.

Others, like Rocket Rods, for example wasn't a failure in terms of popularity, it just kept breaking down due to the fact that it was built on a 30 year old track that couldn't take that stress.

I truly believe that Disney has yet to have a major failure, other wise it wouldn't be the successful company it is today.

:D
 

sanctumsolitude

Active Member
I would like to say something.

The Travel Channel was right. Disney can't afford to fail. It is held to a higher standard, because it started out holding itself to a higher standard.

Every Disney theme park around the world, with maybe the exception of Disney Sea, has been considered a failure when it first opened. Disneyland, MK, Epcot, Disney-MGM Studios, Animal Kingdom, Disneyland Paris, DCA, everything....

But they all have perservered and now, Disney holds like the top 6 places in Theme Park attendance.

Just because people on this forum think some rides are mistakes, doesn't mean that they are failures. Some rides, like Stitch, are loved by many, even though it is brutally attacked on these blogs.

Others, like Rocket Rods, for example wasn't a failure in terms of popularity, it just kept breaking down due to the fact that it was built on a 30 year old track that couldn't take that stress.

I truly believe that Disney has yet to have a major failure, other wise it wouldn't be the successful company it is today.

:D

Even DisneySea is considered a failure, simply because it only brought in about 8 million more guests for the Tokyo Disney Resort.

Disney has had some failed ventures - every company has. They cannot afford to have an entire theme park fail, and right now, Walt Disney Studios next to Disneyland Paris is a complete failure. Last time I checked its not even in the Top 50 for annual attendance for theme parks worldwide.

However, let me point at that right now it is a failure. If they can increase attendance to the 6 million mark ( a 3x increase) than it will be a success.
 

sanctumsolitude

Active Member
I would definitely put MS in the failure column ... not because its a terrible ride (its actually kind of cool) though. The problem is that Disney spent north of a $100million on this ride, and I have never waited more than 10 minutes on it when Test Track has been 45 minutes or more. An attraction that costs that much should have THE longest lines in the park, and I dont think it EVER had longer lines than Test Track, and certainly never longer than Soarin has today (even 1 year after it opened).

Line lengths are not good indicators of popularity. MS has a much higher rider throughput than any of the other rides you mention.

A great example of this is Pirate of the Carribbean. Comparing this ride's wait time to other rides reveals that it isnt that popular. But since it has the highest rider throughput out of any Disney ride, it is actually a very popular attraction.
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
I am going to have to disagree with the OP and many of the posters on this thread. When you put the "Disney can not afford to fail" phrase into context of the show, I would not immediately think of individual attractions that are not popular. Disney is more than just attractions. Walt dreamt of creating a place that was cleaner, friendlier, and provided entertainment the whole family could enjoy together. That is what he saw was missing from the world during his time and that pioneering vision and has guided the construction and operations of all the parks in existence today.

It was this vision and attention to details that has made most, if not all, of the members of this board and millions of other park visitors around the world fans of Disney.

Individual choices of attractions will not dictate a failure of Disney's resorts.

If they ever stop following Walt's vision... only then will Disney fail.
 

Madison

New Member
DCA is not a failure it ranks #9 in theme park attendence

High attendance doesn't necessarily mean that the park is fiscally solvent, however. It's plausible to think, especially if you subscribe to the MiceAge point of view, that a great majority of California Adventure's attendance is comprised of annual passholders that spend comparably little in the park and nothing at all to enter it.
 

DisneyRoxMySox

Well-Known Member
DCA is not a failure it ranks #9 in theme park attendence

What among Disney Theme parks? :rolleyes:

DCA stuggled for a long long time. It was a bad idea. Attendance is still no where near it's sister park. Even more APs prefer to go to DL.

EDIT: The post above me states that APs do go to DCA. Therefore, I am inccorect in stating that more APs go to DL.
 

MJL

New Member
Line lengths are not good indicators of popularity. MS has a much higher rider throughput than any of the other rides you mention.

A great example of this is Pirate of the Carribbean. Comparing this ride's wait time to other rides reveals that it isnt that popular. But since it has the highest rider throughput out of any Disney ride, it is actually a very popular attraction.

I know what you are saying, but cmon! It doesnt swallow people 4x faster than Soarin or TT does it? And again, I like the ride but theres no way (from my observations) this can be categorized as a success ..
 

Madison

New Member
What among Disney Theme parks? :rolleyes:

DCA stuggled for a long long time. It was a bad idea. Attendance is still no where near it's sister park. Even more APs prefer to go to DL.

EDIT: The post above me states that APs do go to DCA. Therefore, I am inccorect in stating that more APs go to DL.

Oh, I'm certain that more AP holders visit Disneyland Park than do California Adventure, but it's also not improbable that a larger percentage of DCA's lower attendance is made up of AP holders (or 2-for-1 ticket holders or similar promotions). Ultimately, the point is that a smaller percentage of DCA's guests are paying full price to enter that gate as compared to most other Disney parks and, given the privileges like park hopping, that people spend less money in DCA than in neighboring Disneyland.
 

DisneyRoxMySox

Well-Known Member
I know what you are saying, but cmon! It doesnt swallow people 4x faster than Soarin or TT does it? And again, I like the ride but theres no way (from my observations) this can be categorized as a success ..

Doesn't M:S go through about 56 people per ride cycle? That's when both sides are being used and there are 4 people in each ride vehicle. Even if you say the load, ride and unload time is 10 minutes. That is 560 people per hour.
 

Mark_E

Active Member
Doesn't M:S go through about 56 people per ride cycle? That's when both sides are being used and there are 4 people in each ride vehicle. Even if you say the load, ride and unload time is 10 minutes. That is 560 people per hour.

It is more than that. There are 4 pods, each taking 128 guests per cycle. I wouldnt say it takes 10 mins for one cycle. If you work on about 8 cycles every hour, thats a capacity of over 1000.
 

DisneyRoxMySox

Well-Known Member
It is more than that. There are 4 pods, each taking 128 guests per cycle. I wouldnt say it takes 10 mins for one cycle. If you work on about 8 cycles every hour, thats a capacity of over 1000.

Thanks. That only prooves our point even more.

M:S is a success, it just does't seem like it because is it has such a huge ride capactiy per hour. :D
 

Ralphlaw

Well-Known Member
Wait a minute

1. Disney-MGM Studios still only a half day park.

2. Animal Kingdom whole park can be done in about 3/4 of a day.

5. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Removal (Should never have been removed, this was a classic Disney movie and ride, thats all I have to say)

6. Downtown Disney (these items to me are not Disney, they don't need to be on property, thanks Eisner you idiot)

7. Epcot - World Showcase . . .Needs RIDES!!!!.
Well those are the areas that I see are Failures, those are just my opinions and you may not agree with them, so let me know what you think.


Have any of you ever picked up one of the old travel videos from the early 90's. We found one at our local library, and you might be amazed at how lame some of the featured attractions were, as well as the fact that they actually advertised half a dozen off-site hotels. Eisner is largely responsible for making the World an entire vacation destination for thousands more people by adding the resorts, 2 more parks, water parks and Downtown Disney. What have the rest of us done by comparison?

I must respond to the above points:

1. For us who stay at the EPCOT resorts and love Star Wars, Studios is a park that we come back to for parts of multiple days.

2. Were any of the parks in a "final" form when they first opened? The opening of Disneyland itself was an unworking fiasco on its first day. Parks open, and then additional attractions make it special. Animal Kingdom is still in its initial evolving stage, and Studios is in a period of transition. How many full day parks exist in this world anyway? Other than Disneyland, Magic Kingdom, and EPCOT, do entire 12 hour day parks exist anywhere else under your definitions?

5. As I understand it, 20,000 leagues was broken down more than it worked. I'd love to ride it, but they could not make it work, especially work safely. Having a broken down attraction is demoralizing; it had to be replaced. They could not make it work safely.

6. Downtown Disney was built, in part, to be a destination for locals and adults. It works at that level, and franchising had to be used to make it sizeable enough to attract visitors. It would have been cost prohibitive (and too risky) to make the entire place uniquely Disney. If it would have been required to be entirely unique, it never would have been built because it would have been cost prohibitive.

7. Yes, World Showcase could use more rides and more countries. Who will pay for it? Will the countries pay for it? Will Disney break with custom and pay for it? You see, the countries themselves pay for the infrastructure, including any potential rides. Should Disney order another country to pony up millions of dollars to pay for it, or will that country then simply pull out? Also, will just some countries be singled out to pay, while others sit back and reap the reward? Do you have a viable, intelligent answer to these questions, or do you simply close your eyes and say, "Make it better . . . for me?"

Overall, the blame game gets a person nowhere in life. It is fiscally naive to want more without having a clue about how to pay for it. Take a college class in finance and marketing, and you will see that Eisner accomplished incredible things, including: (1) Kept Disney from a hostile corporate takeover; (2) Expanded the on-site lodging in great and unique ways; (3) Added 2 theme parks at DWD; (4) Added numerous parks around the world; and (5) Made Disney the type of financial powerhouse that can spend millions every year on improvements when it would be far safer to sit back and watch the money role in.

Who would have done better? A dreamer would have lost the company in a buyout. A "cost is no object" imagineer would have bankrupted the company or made it unaffordable for the masses. A strict bean counter would not have refurbished old buildings, and would rarely have spent millions on new attractions when the old attractions kept bringing the money in. Eisner juggled all of this, and it has been amazingly successful. Few people have done nearly as much.

Yes, some ideas did not work out, but you can't always hit home runs or score a touchdown. Give it a try if it doesn't bankrupt you, and maybe it will be the best thing that ever happened. I am sure Disney history is full of modest ventures that cost little and didn't expect to be great, but ended up being extremely popular. The Dumbo and Peter Pan rides are 2 examples of low-tech attractions that have been mainstays for decades. For every Disney so-called "failure", you will probably find a low cost success.

Therefore, quit blaming unless you are smart enough to sweat the details, including the financial details, to make your wishes come true. Maybe you could, but I doubt it. Few people have the expertise to keep a company out of bankruptcy, and fewer still to make it grow while staying financially viable. Disney is great because it does this, and makes it magical to boot. No other company can do this; and Eisner, although certainly not perfect, did it. None of us would have done nearly as well. Certainly not "you idiot" as you refer to him.
 

jedimaster1227

Active Member
New Global Neighborhood isn't open yet.

Unless you speak of the old one, which was very successful for both Disney and AT&T, but when AT&T left, so did the neighborhood.

M:S is NOT a failure, it did wonders for Epcot's attendance numbers, even with the bad press.

Innoventions is great for Disney and the Involved companies

Ellen brought new life to an old pavilion, just like Nemo is currently doing over at the Seas, and what soarin just did at the Land. It's a great thing.

Actually, the last post-show to SSE was the New Global Neighborhood. When AT&T first sponsored SSE, they put in the first Global Neighborhood. A few years later, they updated it, naming it "The New Global Neighborhood Network." The Siemens post-show will be completely different.

M:S is not a failure for Epcot, but a failure for Disney in itself. M:S was set to be Disney's next franchise to spread throughout its resorts (much like how Disney was ready to put a DisneyQuest in almost every state). When the "bad press" caused by the deaths on the ride (not caused by the ride in any way), the franchise idea was killed. M:S will remain as a one of a kind attraction in the Disney resorts. That is why Soarin' is being cloned in the other parks, because M:S did not score well enough to take Soarin's spot.

While Innoventions is great publicity for companies like Microsoft, ViaVoice and other companies, the complex has recieved three different makeovers since EPCOT Center opened (Starting with Communicore). Innoventions was made to be an attraction that would display technologies of the future. Much of Innoventions is now made up of child play places. Also, in the franchising perspective once again, Disney waited for nearly 8 years to put the old Carousel of Progress Theater to use (after America Sings was removed). Innoventions was their way out of leaving a building to rot. It wasn't their first choice-it was the easiest choice. Just because it was easy, didn't make it popular. Innoventions is considered to be one of the biggest wastes of space in all of Tomorrowland (next to the Rocket Rods of course).

Ellen has brought life to the pavilion, but it still is waning in the statistical aspect of guests per hour.
 

Philo

Well-Known Member
I can see what people mean about DLPs studios being a failure. I personally didn't think it was that bad but I've not been to other Disney Parks (yet). However, if I had paid to go into the studios individually rather than using a park hopper ticket I would have been pretty annoyed. I'm my opinion the quality of the attractions was generally quite high, there just wasn't enough of them to justify a whole seperate park. When put next to DLPs MK it just doesn't hit the mark. Out of 4 days in DLP I think I spent just over 1 day in the studios and the rest round the MK.
 

Scooter

Well-Known Member
I am going to have to disagree with the OP and many of the posters on this thread. When you put the "Disney can not afford to fail" phrase into context of the show, I would not immediately think of individual attractions that are not popular. Disney is more than just attractions. Walt dreamt of creating a place that was cleaner, friendlier, and provided entertainment the whole family could enjoy together. That is what he saw was missing from the world during his time and that pioneering vision and has guided the construction and operations of all the parks in existence today.

It was this vision and attention to details that has made most, if not all, of the members of this board and millions of other park visitors around the world fans of Disney.

Individual choices of attractions will not dictate a failure of Disney's resorts.

If they ever stop following Walt's vision... only then will Disney fail.


My definition of failure is when you spend a lot of money and/or time on something only to find no one whats anything to do with it.

Let's see.....Hmmmm..how about Disney Intitute?

It failed miserably.
It had nothing whatsoever to do with Walt's visions.
It failed because it was a bad idea.
 

Chape19714

Well-Known Member
Actually, the last post-show to SSE was the New Global Neighborhood. When AT&T first sponsored SSE, they put in the first Global Neighborhood. A few years later, they updated it, naming it "The New Global Neighborhood Network." The Siemens post-show will be completely different.

M:S is not a failure for Epcot, but a failure for Disney in itself. M:S was set to be Disney's next franchise to spread throughout its resorts (much like how Disney was ready to put a DisneyQuest in almost every state). When the "bad press" caused by the deaths on the ride (not caused by the ride in any way), the franchise idea was killed. M:S will remain as a one of a kind attraction in the Disney resorts. That is why Soarin' is being cloned in the other parks, because M:S did not score well enough to take Soarin's spot.

While Innoventions is great publicity for companies like Microsoft, ViaVoice and other companies, the complex has recieved three different makeovers since EPCOT Center opened (Starting with Communicore). Innoventions was made to be an attraction that would display technologies of the future. Much of Innoventions is now made up of child play places. Also, in the franchising perspective once again, Disney waited for nearly 8 years to put the old Carousel of Progress Theater to use (after America Sings was removed). Innoventions was their way out of leaving a building to rot. It wasn't their first choice-it was the easiest choice. Just because it was easy, didn't make it popular. Innoventions is considered to be one of the biggest wastes of space in all of Tomorrowland (next to the Rocket Rods of course).

Ellen has brought life to the pavilion, but it still is waning in the statistical aspect of guests per hour.
Even so, the New Global Neighborhood wasn't a failure. It only closed when AT&T dropped sponcership.

Just because M:S didn't do exactly what it was ment to, doesn't mean that it's a failure. I don't ever recall M:S being discussed for other parks by Disney. The cost was around $100 million, a pretty high cost for a clone around the world. I realize that number includes Research and Devolpment, but it's still a steep number. Besides, it wouldn't fit without some story re-working into anywhere else, as all the Tomorrowland's are Science Fiction, where M:S is based a bit more on fact. The show building is also HUGE, it would be hard-pressed to fit in DL's Tomorrowland, or many of the other Tomorrowland's for that matter.

Innoventions may not work at DL, but that doesn't make it a failure. It works quite well at Epcot, and encourages many companies to form parterships with Disney, causing great leaps in Technology inside the parks. And so what if it's kids games? There's plenty for the adults to do WITH the kids, that what's Disney is about!

Ellen is still a sucess, it's capicity is just huge. Just like Philharmagic and the other 3D films don't fill every show, every day, it doesn't mean that they are failures. CoP also fits in that catagory, and we know that is a sucess. Just because something doesn't fill to capicity, doens't make it a failure. Almost every attraction at WDW doesn't fill to capacity every hour it is open.
 

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