Disney slashes Forbidden Mountain budget!!

[Main Street USA]

Originally posted by Raidermatt
Sure there's some of that. There's also a lot of folks who jump up and down and say "SEE, ALL IS WELL!" when a positive "rumor" comes out, but don't want any part of any rumor not dripping with Pixie Dust. Equally sad. Not so much annoying as disappointing.

I agree, but it doesn't make me nearly as angry to see people happy about something (false or not) as it does to hear people CONSTANTLY whine without knowing all there is to know.

The first sentence of this thread proves that. After reading 1 negative article, after never really knowing ANYTHING positive for sure to begin with, we get this:

"Well, I knew it was too good to be true."

When, technically, we don't know any less, or anything more than we did to begin with.

 

[AndyMagic]

Originally posted by Lee
Ok, I've said it before, but here it goes again...

Jim Hill has some excellent sources at WDI. People who know much more than they feed to Jim. I know this because it appears that I have some of the same ones, just not as many.

However, sometimes it seem that they use him as a tool for getting info out for their own benefit.
For example, someone who stood to loose a job, or be laid off, if the queue is not extravagantly themed would want to cause an uproar, thereby hoping that public outcry would ensure him a job on the project.

Jim is just the messenger in some cases, for someone elses agenda.

Does Jim intentionally lie? Not that I've seen.
Is there truth to the article? Yep.
Is it anything to worry about? Nope.

Thanks Lee for putting things in perspective. Everyone here seems to think that Jim Hill doesn't know what he is talking about. Yet pretty much everything he has predicted in the past has come true. He even wrote a weekly column for Orlando Weekly called Eye Drive so obviously he has insider info. I know that we will still be getting a great ride but lets not all just assume that what he wrote is wrong. Also, while it is true that all E-tickets start out with huge budgets and are eventually cut down before being given the greenlight, this case seems a little different. The way Jim Hill was describing the cuts, he makes it seem like the cuts are happening right now, after the original greenlight was given, which makes me believe that the budget is being dwindled down even farther. Either way, I hope it turns out to be a killer attraction and hopefully it will have the same effect that TOT had on MGM when it opened.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Thanks Lee for putting things in perspective. Everyone here seems to think that Jim Hill doesn't know what he is talking about. Yet pretty much everything he has predicted in the past has come true. He even wrote a weekly column for Orlando Weekly called Eye Drive so obviously he has insider info. I know that we will still be getting a great ride but lets not all just assume that what he wrote is wrong. Also, while it is true that all E-tickets start out with huge budgets and are eventually cut down before being given the greenlight, this case seems a little different. The way Jim Hill was describing the cuts, he makes it seem like the cuts are happening right now, after the original greenlight was given, which makes me believe that the budget is being dwindled down even farther. Either way, I hope it turns out to be a killer attraction and hopefully it will have the same effect that TOT had on MGM when it opened.

Mission: SPACE's queue changed after it was officially announced--compare the original concept art to the planetary plaza we see today.

 

[AndyMagic]

Originally posted by DogsRule!
Mission: SPACE's queue changed after it was officially announced--compare the original concept art to the planetary plaza we see today.

Yes Planetary Plaza changed, but the queue doesn't start until you enter the building. Or at least I believe that is how it is going to be. Also the changes to the plaza were just slight cosmetic differences, not a big change. On a side note, I actually like the current look over the concept art. The "swoop" coming up over the red planet is much more dramatic on the current M:S then it was on the concept art. I have to give Imagineering props for making such an amazing entrance. Just 3 more months until I'm there!

 

[wdwmagic]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Thanks Lee for putting things in perspective. Everyone here seems to think that Jim Hill doesn't know what he is talking about. Yet pretty much everything he has predicted in the past has come true.

The point being made is that some websites like to air a great deal of their own opinions, mixed with very little fact.

For example, the basis of many of the "stories" is a one line of fact that is heard from somewhere, such as "this ride is only costing $150 million instad of $300million". That simple fact is then blown out into a full work of editorial, with the authors opinions and spin put into it. In the case of particular websites, the spin put onto it is heavily negative, and intended to bash Disney at every opportunity.

You may like that type of sensationalism and negativity on every new thing that happens at Disney. However, I prefer to just present the facts, and let the reader make their own mind up.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Yes Planetary Plaza changed, but the queue doesn't start until you enter the building. Or at least I believe that is how it is going to be. Also the changes to the plaza were just slight cosmetic differences, not a big change. On a side note, I actually like the current look over the concept art. The "swoop" coming up over the red planet is much more dramatic on the current M:S then it was on the concept art. I have to give Imagineering props for making such an amazing entrance. Just 3 more months until I'm there!

The stand-by line will wrap through Planetary Plaza. That is why they spent so much time (and money) making it look amazing and putting up those "breakthroughs in space travel". Did you know that the "original" WDI plans for Mission: SPACE included the space shuttle actually taking guests to an International Space Station where more activities would take place. But, that won't be happening because, as Steve said, it would cost about $300 m. But, Disney will still be delivering one of the best, if the the best, attractions in the world--and the queue is not as detailed as, say, the Tower of Terror or Indy, but it'll still look fantastic.

 

[AndyMagic]

Originally posted by DogsRule!
The stand-by line will wrap through Planetary Plaza. That is why they spent so much time (and money) making it look amazing and putting up those "breakthroughs in space travel". Did you know that the "original" WDI plans for Mission: SPACE included the space shuttle actually taking guests to an International Space Station where more activities would take place. But, that won't be happening because, as Steve said, it would cost about $300 m. But, Disney will still be delivering one of the best, if the the best, attractions in the world--and the queue is not as detailed as, say, the Tower of Terror or Indy, but it'll still look fantastic.

Thanks for the info Dogs. Quick question though. Why did they put that sign up at the entrance to the attraction directing which way each line is. That is why I assumed all of the lines would be in the building. Also, maybe it just seems this way from the picture but isn't that area just a little too conjested to have both an entrance for singles and fastpass, as well as a line wrapping around the outside of the building.

 

[EpcoTim]

Re: Re: Disney slashes Forbidden Mountain budget!!

Originally posted by SG4779
Ok, not to burst your bubble or anything but i honsetly have to say that Jim Hill lies. He has lied about MANY things in the past...

I agree, I beleive about 20% of what he says. All this thread is about really is peoples bitterness. So you dont think the ride will be decent. Fine. then stay the hell off it. Simple as that. They know that this ride could make or break AK, and WDW as a whole, and they wont luse it up. Simple as that.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Thanks for the info Dogs. Quick question though. Why did they put that sign up at the entrance to the attraction directing which way each line is. That is why I assumed all of the lines would be in the building. Also, maybe it just seems this way from the picture but isn't that area just a little too conjested to have both an entrance for singles and fastpass, as well as a line wrapping around the outside of the building.

Those signs are meant to make it clear to people where they need to go--specifically Fastpass people, as they will not be waiting outside; their line will be exclusively inside, as will the single's line, as they are both shorter. Stand-by will wrap outside. It could get congested, but I am pretty sure Disney has it all sorted out so that it will work. That is why they themed Planetary Plaza such, though--at least initially. It might have changed; I dunno. But, my understanding was that Disney wanted people outside longer, so they would be more likely to buy drinks in the 95º, 90% humidity this summer, when the attraction opens. Again, that may have changed, but certainly the overfill line will be out in Planetary Plaza.

 

[Testtrack321]

And where did you hear this about the que wrapping around the plaza Dogs? I have never heard this and believe that it's false info.

 

[MrPromey]

Re: Re: Re: Disney slashes Forbidden Mountain budget!!

Originally posted by EpcoTim
I agree, I beleive about 20% of what he says. All this thread is about really is peoples bitterness. So you dont think the ride will be decent. Fine. then stay the hell off it. Simple as that. They know that this ride could make or break AK, and WDW as a whole, and they wont luse it up. Simple as that.

The problem with Jim Hill is that regardless of how good any of his sources may be, it is sometimes hard to tell where solid information ends and where speculative opinion (usually negative) begins. Does anyone remember when Mr. Hill was trying to suggest that the fifth ‘official’ gate for WDW was going to be a Lego Land? The reason he gave? Not quite a quote but it was something to the effect of “Because they are cheap”…

If anyone with a clear head has ever read much of his stuff it is incredibly easy to see the intentional slant he puts on nearly everything. There are people who write for other sites that do the same thing in favor of Disney which is why I don’t put a lot of stock in what they say either.

There is one cute little article I managed to pull up which sort of illustrates my point: http://jimhillmedia.com/main/index.htm

Mr. Hill who can’t seem to keep a gig these days would like us to believe it is all about reporting the facts for him and that he isn’t looking for attention. If that were the case, he would stick to the facts instead of presuming to know what goes on not only in the board rooms of Disney but also in the heads of the executives.

If his information from sources he claims he can’t reveal is solid, he needs to leave it at that. Otherwise, he is just a rumor mill himself and there are plenty of us on here that could do a better job than him of writing up vapor-reports sprinkled with a few facts.
I did not read the article that started this tread as I more or less stopped reading what he wrote years ago. All you need is a few good hits to make people forget all about the misses. It is how fortune tellers and psychics get by and Jim Hill isn’t all that different. If his method of reporting weren’t so unethical, I might take him seriously because he probably does know more about what is going on than most of us do but I don’t like it when someone else fills in the missing pieces with their own opinions and then tries to pass the whole thing off as fact that can’t be substantiated and can’t be argued against because it isn’t official which means plans are subject to change… which means he can always say he was right at the time and as a result, it is pretty much impossible to prove otherwise.

Maybe I should start my own reporting on Disney. Anyone want to hear about the plans for the Monorail expansion being worked on with a target date of 2007 for completion? Or how about what they are going to do with the lagoon in Fantasy Land? I bet you guys don’t even realize that they are planning to close the Jungle cruise, do you?

 

[Lee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Disney slashes Forbidden Mountain budget!!

Originally posted by MrPromey

Anyone want to hear about the plans for the Monorail expansion being worked on with a target date of 2007 for completion? Or how about what they are going to do with the lagoon in Fantasy Land? I bet you guys don’t even realize that they are planning to close the Jungle cruise, do you?

OK, I' m all ears.
Start talking.
Let's hear what you've got.

 

[DisneyWonders07]

Ohhhhh Jungle Cruise closing down? I wouldn't mind at all, it's really boring But monorail expansion? Lemme hear!!!

 

[Lee]

I'm on my way to get gas for my M1-A1 tank.
The defense of Jungle Cruise may be long and bloody, but I will prevail!
:fork:

Seriously, taking it out...I don't think so.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I think MrPromey was satirizing Jim Hill...(i.e. he was kidding)

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by DisneyWonders07
Ohhhhh Jungle Cruise closing down? I wouldn't mind at all, it's really boring But monorail expansion? Lemme hear!!!

Well, this attraction has seen a steady decline in guests over the last ten years or so and has been on the verge of closing several times but was saved for the simple fact that the budget to replace it wasn’t there and they were afraid that closing this attraction (which costs a bundle to operate) would leave too much of a hole in Adventure Land which is one of the parts of the park that has seem almost no expansion since opening... That is, until the addition of the Magic Carpets!

Of course, even Disney executives realize that the Carpets can’t be considered a replacement of this attraction alone but the addition does make it possible to easily hide the Jungle cruise with nothing more than the strategic use of plants and an elevated hill of built up dirt and grass (often referred to as a ‘Disney’ barrier) covering the walk area to the entrance without there appearing to be any gaps or signs of a closed attraction while they begin the extended four and a half year plan to remove this attraction and replace it with something.

But all is not lost. Why for, you ask? Well, the Imagineers have great plans for this area and have for some time. Originally, they had wanted to place a second generation version of the Indy ride here but Eisner and Co. decided it would be cheaper to simply referb the stunt show in MGM. Of course, this was before the slowdown in the economy… Then there was 9/11… Then the threat of war… The truth is Disney has seen their numbers go down steadily pretty much since the end of the Millennium Celebration and stop-gaps intended to soften the blow haven’t been all that successful. We all know that they have cut hours of the parks, cut the number of cast members, and have even doubled the amount of time between changing out the vegetable shortening that fries are cooked in at all of the restaurants in an attempt to save a bit of cash but now they have finally come to the realization that cutbacks aren’t going to solve their problems. That is why I am happy to report to the world for the first time on the WDW Magic forums that Eisner has given the green light on an attraction that our eastern friends may know as “Journey to the Center of the Earth”. ( http://www.tokyodisneyresort.co.jp/tds/en/e_park/pg_top.html ) This new attraction will do a couple of things to the MK. First, it will be a major expansion of the mountain range and second, it will add a great deal of life to this park that is regarded by many as being only for kids these days.

Exact details are a bit sketchy at this time since they are still in the design and planning stages but a few things are known. First, the name will be changed. Why for? Because this attraction will only vaguely resemble the one in Disney Seas. It will be greatly scaled down in size with nearly a full third of the ride time from the original missing. Why for? Even though there is plenty of land for the full attraction Eisner and Co. were not willing to approve such a major undertaking and use of such a great amount of valuable real estate for an E-Ticket attraction alone. No, in order to get approval for this new attraction, the Imagineers also had to find a way to add both a sizeable amount of retail space and a restaurant. (Think the Enchanted Oak Tavern from IOA but without the alcohol).

With the added requirements of the store said to rival the newly expanded Main Street Emporium in size, the restaurant, and a budget of roughly half what was provided for the design and construction for just the attraction by the Oriental Land Co. overseas, they’ve obviously had to cut a few corners here back in the states to make this thing happen.

While it will generally be viewed as a major disappointment to anyone who has ever ridden or even seen pictures of the original, it is expected to be a highly popular addition (on the scale of what Test Track has done for Epcot) in WDW.

This is all I can really say for certain at this point and don’t forget that plans are always subject to change. They could always end up going in another direction or put this part of the park on a back burner for yet another half decade if things pick up again before they begin tearing out the water ways. After all, by this time last year COP was supposed to have been replaced with a retro-sci-fi rotating malt shop complete with totally automated counter service and they have yet to close COP for good.

I’ll have to save news of the Monorail for another time. That is an even longer story!

 

[DisneyWonders07]

Wow all that information from my little post? Thanks MrPromey! Anyways, even though I love COP, a retro-style sci-fi revolving malt shop with automated counter service would be really cool and futuristic! Too bad they can't think about putting it somewhere besides COP...

 

[Bagheera]

That was a beautifully-written parody of Jim Hill, Mr. P! I can tell that you've read quite a bit of his stuff to get his writing style down like that, right down to his lengthy digressions. I enjoy the entertainment value of his posts, too, though of course you've always got to take it with a grain of salt. Of course, he had Phase I of Destination Disney pegged, so I'm waiting to see if there is more to the accuracy on that story, or if Pal Mickey is the only one.

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by Bagheera
That was a beautifully-written parody of Jim Hill, Mr. P! I can tell that you've read quite a bit of his stuff to get his writing style down like that, right down to his lengthy digressions. I enjoy the entertainment value of his posts, too, though of course you've always got to take it with a grain of salt. Of course, he had Phase I of Destination Disney pegged, so I'm waiting to see if there is more to the accuracy on that story, or if Pal Mickey is the only one.

What do you mean parody? Are you saying I don’t know what I’m talking about?! DO YOU HAVE ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO CONTRADICT ANYTYHING I SAID IN THAT POST?!

 

[Bagheera]

Evidence? Whaddaya mean evidence? Who needs evidence? I haven't seen a shred of evidence since this whole dagblammit thread started! So there! :lol: