Disney Skyliner shutdown and evacuation - October 6 2019

[lazyboy97o]

On the monorail. There is no reason why the general public would be apt to adjust the settings on a monorail but refrain on another similar mode of public transit.

Disney gondolas seems to emit a high dose of stupid.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney gondolas seems to emit a high dose of stupid.

No, they just trap it all in.. like the heat!

 

[GoofGoof]

Absolutely. In this case, some people seem to have a different boundary defining what risk is acceptable to them. It may seem sensationalist to us, but they're just assessing it using a different scale than you or I might. Not a direct correlation, but an example might be that some people find there's low risk in leaving their doors unlocked, and others would assess leaving a door unlocked as a moderate or high risk. Is either view really wrong? I'd argue that it isn't, looking at it from a neutral position.

If you want to shift someone's position, wouldn't it would be better to understand the reason behind the assessment? Opinions aren't going to change just because someone says that they're wrong.

In this case does it really matter what individual people’s risk tolerance is? Disney as a company (and their insurance companies) will look at the overall risk and liability and decide what level of risk they can tolerate. There’s no need to shift anyone’s position. Just like a rollercoaster in a park or running with the bulls if someone feels it’s too risky for them they are free to just not do it. If enough people choose to skip something because of risk the company will probably reconsider.

 

[Phil12]

I don't know much about the system, but my guess is that they have the ability to operate the system completely manually if necessary. The situation was local, happening in one spot to two gondola's. It wasn't rope wide. For every event completely different options exist and making the right choice is what differentiates between people that don't have a clue what they are doing and those that do. clearing the rope and attempting to move it "slowly" would quickly let them know if they can continue to bring the cabins in or not.

I agree, but I think they'd need someone from engineering to make that call. Which means that there could be a rather lengthy delay until a qualified person arrives on scene to evaluate the problem(s) and make a decision as to how to best recover.

 

[Phil12]

If there is a bus accident or similar do they make a statement on what the driver did wrong or the cause of the engine failure, or just announce it as an accident/incident? I think in most cases they don't go into detail on causes unless there is a government investigation or court case (usually then means there is a fatality).

Actually, if there is a court case (tort) they'll settle and as a requirement of the settlement mandate that all parties must not disclose facts of the case, hence a confidential settlement.

 

[RustySpork]

In this case does it really matter what individual people’s risk tolerance is? Disney as a company (and their insurance companies) will look at the overall risk and liability and decide what level of risk they can tolerate. There’s no need to shift anyone’s position. Just like a rollercoaster in a park or running with the bulls if someone feels it’s too risky for them they are free to just not do it. If enough people choose to skip something because of risk the company will probably reconsider.

It matters to that individual, yes. Just as Disney as a company assesses risk from their own perspective, and that matters to them. There is no one size fits all story here.

 

[Goofyernmost]

On the monorail. There is no reason why the general public would be apt to adjust the settings on a monorail but refrain on another similar mode of public transit.

The general public that you are referring to in Disneyland are likely locals that have been there for years and know how the system operates and can do it in their sleep. It is a whole different group of people that come from all over the world in WDW and, if they haven't been exposed to the intricacies of Gondola setup and rules, will not know what they should and shouldn't do.

However, due to the fact that internet boards always mentally paint with a very wide brush let me be clear that I didn't say that all the Gondola's will be wandering around with a partially restricted airflow, but there will be some. Now can we get on with a topic that is a spin off of more then an off the cuff comment which wasn't intended to throw disparity at all the population on earth.

I asked the question about the vent windows because of all the "public transit" modes available almost none are so sensitively designed via vent window to have enough airflow to keep it comfortable on a hot day and one would think that Disney would not want to throw off that balance at random. All public transit will get us from point A to point B, but how they operate differ in many ways. After a while everyone will know how it all works, until then there are going to be people that don't know how it works and will suffer through uncomfortable conditions because they don't know that the vents aren't in the position of maximum comfort. That is all I was and am now saying.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree, but I think they'd need someone from engineering to make that call. Which means that there could be a rather lengthy delay until a qualified person arrives on scene to evaluate the problem(s) and make a decision as to how to best recover.

True, if the situation isn't obvious, however everything I have seen about this is was a malfunction of one gondola with no other damage to the rope or any other gondola, a quick check via movement will confirm and let them know if they can slowly move and evacuate all the gondola's. Every situation, which hopefully will not be a constant occurrence will be a different situation and require judgement on the part of the operators. (especially the supervisor on duty)

 

[shernernum]

What makes you think that Disney, one of the biggest companies in the world has an insurance company? They can kill a hundred people a year and pay out of pocket like it's nothing. Same with people who think Disney doesn't want to rack up lawyer fees. LOL. Disney has Lairs on staff and they don't have insurance companies except for big things like a hurricane hitting WDW hard but I'm not even sure they do that?

Did you really just insinuate that Disney doesn’t carry insurance for most aspects of their business? ok

 

[RustySpork]

True, if the situation isn't obvious, however everything I have seen about this is was a malfunction of one gondola with no other damage to the rope or any other gondola, a quick check via movement will confirm and let them know if they can slowly move and evacuate all the gondola's. Every situation, which hopefully will not be a constant occurrence will be a different situation and require judgement on the part of the operators. (especially the supervisor on duty)

It's probably not quite that simple. The supervisor on duty is probably not an engineer and wouldn't be able to make a safety call like that. Since there was an accident they probably also have to spend time gathering data to analyze later as well. It's probable that even though the gondola system was blocked by the 911 call that it would have taken the same amount of time for a qualified person to get onsite, do the analysis, and clear the obstruction. I may be remembering the timing wrong, but I don't believe the gondola system began moving immediately after the person was removed from the gondola, it seemed like another hour had passed before it started up again.

 

[RustySpork]

What makes you think that Disney, one of the biggest companies in the world has an insurance company? They can kill a hundred people a year and pay out of pocket like it's nothing. Same with people who think Disney doesn't want to rack up lawyer fees. LOL. Disney has Lairs on staff and they don't have insurance companies except for big things like a hurricane hitting WDW hard but I'm not even sure they do that?

They have insurance, that's a cost of doing business. After the monorail incident occurred in 2009 their insurance company forced them to reclassify the monorail from attraction to transportation.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It's probably not quite that simple. The supervisor on duty is probably not an engineer and wouldn't be able to make a safety call like that. Since there was an accident they probably also have to spend time gathering data to analyze later as well. It's probable that even though the gondola system was blocked by the 911 call that it would have taken the same amount of time for a qualified person to get onsite, do the analysis, and clear the obstruction. I may be remembering the timing wrong, but I don't believe the gondola system began moving immediately after the person was removed from the gondola, it seemed like another hour had passed before it started up again.

I suppose that is possible, but I don't think it is likely. Not every problem requires a team of engineers to be brought in during the initial situation. Serious ones with injuries, yes! After for sure, but if the supervisor has had at least minimum training in what to look for immediately, a lot of time hanging on the wire will be saved. A thought comes to mind. Let's look at the ski lifts and gondola's. They cannot wait for hours in sub freezing temperatures to move people to get them off the thing. Some degree of judgement has to be used to understand what route to take. To me the absolute largest problem with the Disney incident was the lack of communication. If they had just reassured the riders that nothing was seriously wrong and they would be moving very soon they would have prevented the panic and the 911 calls. That was the real problem in this instance.

 

[Rob562]

True, if the situation isn't obvious, however everything I have seen about this is was a malfunction of one gondola with no other damage to the rope or any other gondola, a quick check via movement will confirm and let them know if they can slowly move and evacuate all the gondola's. Every situation, which hopefully will not be a constant occurrence will be a different situation and require judgement on the part of the operators. (especially the supervisor on duty)

You're overlooking that the blue cabin involved was likely jammed in place during the pileup in the station. That's not a simple fix where you can look at it, push a button and start moving everything again. It required personnel to go there and evaluate the situation to see what needed to be done.

-Rob

 

[ImperfectPixie]

True, if the situation isn't obvious, however everything I have seen about this is was a malfunction of one gondola with no other damage to the rope or any other gondola, a quick check via movement will confirm and let them know if they can slowly move and evacuate all the gondola's. Every situation, which hopefully will not be a constant occurrence will be a different situation and require judgement on the part of the operators. (especially the supervisor on duty)

You're overlooking that the blue cabin involved was likely jammed in place during the pileup in the station. That's not a simple fix where you can look at it, push a button and start moving everything again. It required personnel to go there and evaluate the situation to see what needed to be done.

-Rob

At least one yellow cabin had damage to the supports around the windows. (Saw in one of the pics/videos that was posted.)

 

[Incomudro]

Psh, lightweight.

The poster actually did the math.
That's both odd and funny.

 

[danlb_2000]

Did you really just insinuate that Disney doesn’t carry insurance for most aspects of their business? ok

When it comes to worker comp and guest claims, Disney is self insured...

Managing risk at the happiest place on Earth

At twice the size of Manhattan, Walt Disney World faces many of the same risks as a large city. It's how they manage those risks that makes them unique.

www.propertycasualty360.com

 

[lazyboy97o]

They have insurance, that's a cost of doing business. After the monorail incident occurred in 2009 their insurance company forced them to reclassify the monorail from attraction to transportation.

The Walt Disney World Monorail was always transportation. The Disneyland Monorail was and still is an attraction.

I suppose that is possible, but I don't think it is likely. Not every problem requires a team of engineers to be brought in during the initial situation. Serious ones with injuries, yes! After for sure, but if the supervisor has had at least minimum training in what to look for immediately, a lot of time hanging on the wire will be saved. A thought comes to mind. Let's look at the ski lifts and gondola's. They cannot wait for hours in sub freezing temperatures to move people to get them off the thing. Some degree of judgement has to be used to understand what route to take. To me the absolute largest problem with the Disney incident was the lack of communication. If they had just reassured the riders that nothing was seriously wrong and they would be moving very soon they would have prevented the panic and the 911 calls. That was the real problem in this instance.

An incident requires permission from the Building Department before the Skyliner can resume operation

 

[peter11435]

Did you really just insinuate that Disney doesn’t carry insurance for most aspects of their business? ok

He’s correct

 

[peter11435]

They have insurance, that's a cost of doing business. After the monorail incident occurred in 2009 their insurance company forced them to reclassify the monorail from attraction to transportation.

Not exactly...

And Monorails have always been transportation.

 

[Bender123]

Not exactly...

And Monorails have always been transpiration.

I never realized they were made of plants...

tran·spi·ra·tion
/ˌtran(t)spəˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun
Botany
noun: transpiration

1. (of a plant or leaf) the exhalation of water vapor through the stomata.
   "plants lose more than 90 percent of their water through transpiration"