Disney Skyliner shutdown and evacuation - October 6 2019

[RustySpork]

LOL what do I think the outcome would be if passengers were left on the line for a couple of hours during a severe tropical thunderstorm?
Well, they'd "live" as many of you are fond of saying.

They'd be cranky and possibly wet, but would enjoy some extra magic added to their vacations.

 

[Incomudro]

Again what is the alternative you keep hoping would happen?

Just no skyliner at all?

The alternative is making sure it never happens.

 

[Incomudro]

They'd be cranky and possibly wet, but would enjoy some extra magic added to their vacations.

I think cranky is an understatement.

 

[flynnibus]

The alternative is making sure it never happens.

Again... how? You've just outlined the situation where they can't possibly avoid it... yet keep harping on it as 'must be prevented'. How do you propose Disney solve your no-win situation?

 

[RustySpork]

I think cranky is an understatement.

<--

 

[larryz]

Obviously the answer is
View attachment 419973

Or.. people sit on a bench in a perfectly fine cabin.

Surely those gondola wraps will diminish the bright flash somewhat...

 

[Phil12]

I'm not talking about death from electrocution.
I'm talking about riding out a severe tropical thunderstorm in a gondola cabin.

That's the reason they have the barf bags in the emergency kits.

 

[mergatroid]

The alternative is making sure it never happens.

Control the weather?

 

[larryz]

Control the weather?

Conspiracy Theories Abound as U.S. Military Closes HAARP

The U.S. Air Force has told Congress it intends to shut down HAARP, a controversial Alaska-based research facility that studies the upper atmosphere.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[JoeCamel]

The cabins should have been able to be brought in quite quickly once the issue was resolved in the station. But RCFD got a 911 call and went ahead with an evacuation which slowed the whole process down. If there was a thunderstorm at the time then it’s possible they would have tried to get the ropes moving quicker and not gone ahead with the evac, but it’s strongly possible that RCFD would override the Skyliner ops team again and decide to evacuate the affected cabin with the medical issue even in a thunderstorm.

Yeah, that's the crux of the whole thing.
The cabins need to be brought - the line needs to move in the event of future medical emergencies, (or imaginary medical emergencies) in the event of 911 calls etc.

Maybe RCFD learned from this operation and will focus their efforts on clearing the blockage to moving the ropeway and have determined that is the quickest way to get the affected person off the gondola. But sometimes they focus in training on the dramatic rescues rather than the mundane of "just get those cars out of the way of the others and we can run it". More like a car accident scene than a high altitude removal, so they can be brutal with the method. My first thought would have been a forklift and break the grips open if necessary to get them out at the cost of the cabins

 

[GoofGoof]

I can’t believe we are having this weather discussion again. Probably the same people railing on about it for hundreds of pages in the other thread. Do people realize the boats also don’t operate when there is lightning? They have had boats for nearly 50 years at WDW and somehow managed to predict thunderstorms.

There are enough actual issues with what happened during this incident without making up nonsense problems that happen to fit your narrative.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm not talking about death from electrocution.
I'm talking about riding out a severe tropical thunderstorm in a gondola cabin.

They sit and wait no differently.

 

[larryz]

They sit and wait no differently.

Unless you take their elevated breathing and pulse into account...

 

[Phil12]

Maybe RCFD learned from this operation and will focus their efforts on clearing the blockage to moving the ropeway and have determined that is the quickest way to get the affected person off the gondola. But sometimes they focus in training on the dramatic rescues rather than the mundane of "just get those cars out of the way of the others and we can run it". More like a car accident scene than a high altitude removal, so they can be brutal with the method. My first thought would have been a forklift and break the grips open if necessary to get them out at the cost of the cabins

But I see a problem in that scenario. If any car derails from the haul line, how does anyone know the root cause? Here we are weeks after the incident and no word from Disney about the details. Why has Disney remained silent on this issue? I suspect that if they were honest about what really happened, it would frighten most guests.

Therefore, in your hypothetical situation, if the individual gondola is to blame (because let's say the gondola grip is bent or broken) then your proposal to "just get those cars out of the way of the others and we can run it" makes perfect sense.

But what if other factors are involved? Let's say the haul line is defective. If you just get obstructing gondolas out of the way in order to run the rest of the gondolas, then you're putting everyone at serious risk. Or, for example, let's say one of the haul line motors is defective. Then again you would not want to restart the line.

For a system this complex I think you'd need a very experienced person to troubleshoot the root cause(s) before restarting the system. And, as in the previous incident, if you're not sure what went wrong it's better just to halt the system until you're sure it's safe to restart. And that could take many hours.

 

[Jon81uk]

Maybe RCFD learned from this operation and will focus their efforts on clearing the blockage to moving the ropeway and have determined that is the quickest way to get the affected person off the gondola. But sometimes they focus in training on the dramatic rescues rather than the mundane of "just get those cars out of the way of the others and we can run it". More like a car accident scene than a high altitude removal, so they can be brutal with the method. My first thought would have been a forklift and break the grips open if necessary to get them out at the cost of the cabins

Part of the issue may also be that moving the blockafge and getting it running is a Doppelmayer & Disney Ops issue whereas a rescue is a RCFD issue and once they got the 911 call they wouldn't allow Doppelmayer to try and restart instead. I would hope that they could discuss between both parties and as you say RCFD realise that there are better options even if there is an emergency.

 

[Jon81uk]

But I see a problem in that scenario. If any car derails from the haul line, how does anyone know the root cause? Here we are weeks after the incident and no word from Disney about the details. Why has Disney remained silent on this issue? I suspect that if they were honest about what really happened, it would frighten most guests.

If there is a bus accident or similar do they make a statement on what the driver did wrong or the cause of the engine failure, or just announce it as an accident/incident? I think in most cases they don't go into detail on causes unless there is a government investigation or court case (usually then means there is a fatality).

 

[Rich Brownn]

I really have to know..how long have you lived here? A week? Certainly it's possible to predict patterns that indicate storms, but there is no such thing as 100% accuracy in any of those predictions. Even the NCEP with all of their computing power isn't accurate all the time. At least not yet. If you think a storm can't form faster than it can be predicted, you've never been outside in Florida.

I've lived here since 1974. And we're not talking predictions weeks in advance or even a day. I'm saying storms build with enough time that any decent meteorologist can see on radar that a storm is brewing ... it certainly doesn't happen in minutes. Do you know how long it takes a cumulous cloud to build? They will have plenty of time to shut down. Hell, even in 1974, when In worked Gran Prix we had plenty of notice to shut down before a storm rolled in. Believe it or not, meteorology doesn't consist of looking out the window and sticking a wet finger in the air. And if you think they can't tell a storm is building before it actually arrives, I can only assume you failed science in school. Bye

 

[Rich Brownn]

Have you ever heard of "bolts from the blue"?

When Lightning Strikes Out of a Blue Sky

Britney Wehrle was walking with a friend on a sunny, warm day when she was suddenly struck by lightning, even though the sky above her was clear and blue.

www.nbcnews.com

A boly from the blue is not the same as high winds in a thunderstorm, which is what we were discussing. The gondolas are in no danger even if stuck by lightning.

 

[RustySpork]

I've lived here since 1974. And we're not talking predictions weeks in advance or even a day. I'm saying storms build with enough time that any decent meteorologist can see on radar that a storm is brewing ... it certainly doesn't happen in minutes. Do you know how long it takes a cumulous cloud to build? They will have plenty of time to shut down. Hell, even in 1974, when In worked Gran Prix we had plenty of notice to shut down before a storm rolled in. Believe it or not, meteorology doesn't consist of looking out the window and sticking a wet finger in the air. And if you think they can't tell a storm is building before it actually arrives, I can only assume you failed science in school. Bye

Yikes. I've never said anything about looking up at the sky or sticking a finger in the air. I get that you're trying desperately to steer the conversation into a direction you can control, but it isn't working as I'm not going to bite except to point out that you're lying.

 

[monothingie]

The cabins should have been able to be brought in quite quickly once the issue was resolved in the station. But RCFD got a 911 call and went ahead with an evacuation which slowed the whole process down. If there was a thunderstorm at the time then it’s possible they would have tried to get the ropes moving quicker and not gone ahead with the evac, but it’s strongly possible that RCFD would override the Skyliner ops team again and decide to evacuate the affected cabin with the medical issue even in a thunderstorm.

First responders will always interface with a responsible party(for the ride, building, whatever) first before attempting to resolve the emergency. First responders also rely on accurate and timely information given by the responsible party about the status of systems. They do not override anyone, but work with the responsible parties to achieve the safest possible outcome. To say that RCFD slowed the resolution of the emergency is uninformed speculation.

It is also important to note that they were not evacuating the entire system, but trying rescue high priority victims.

RCFD when dispatched first went to the scene of the actual crash at the Riviera to evaluate. Since they are not qualified to operate or repair the skyliner, they rely on Disney engineering to guide them in how resolve emergencies. Most likely no one was immediately qualified to offer an estimate to restoration of services to the skyliner, (probably had to call in people). At the same time 911 is receiving calls for life threatening emergencies. 911 operators have to assume that all calls stating a life threatening emergency are just that. With no estimate or plan for restoration of services, RCFD must fall back to a manual rescue of affected cabs and assume the worst case schedule for restoration. They can't simply hope that the system can be restored to operation in a reasonable time, given no qualified person can tell them that. If engineering told RCFD they could resolve the problem in 20 minutes, no manual rescue attempts would have been made, but that most likely wasn't the case because no one knew or communicated information the first responders. If there is/was a life threatening situation and someone was injured or killed because no one took action (and they are trained to remove people manually) there would have been a significant breach of duty and legal culpability.

So what happens next is they do a couple of things, first attempt to locate the affected cabs, lockout/tagout the system so it is safe to access manually (This was probably the most time consuming thing to restore because once the system is lockedout/tagged out restoring function could be a complicated and long process), and then they access the system. It is probably at this time that repairs or assessments were made on restoring the system at which time all lockout/tagouts were removed, rescuers cleared and the system restored. Considering the time frame, 3 hours is unpleasant but not catastrophic.