News Disney Riviera Resort announced

[GoofGoof]

The big problem is, how would this work? You have a moderate DVC, costing much less than the deluxe DVC resorts. New buyers get far cheaper points, and then use them to stay at the Poly. But existing buyers can also sell their existing points and snap up huge numbers of cheaper points.

If you make the points a similar price but with less points per room, people still have to fork out crazy prices.
And you exacerbate the problem we have now, where a lot of people have only enough points to stay in a studio for a few days, thus making studio availability scarce all year round by the 7 month window.

The only way this truly works is to create a whole new tier of DVC points for moderate resorts. And then you have the headache of member perks....

You can’t just make the price per point lower. That won’t work with the current program. There are a few ways to build a true moderate DVC program.

1. Make the moderate and deluxe tiers of DVC completely separate and don’t allow trade-ins between the 2. Easy to administer but you lose the valuable selling feature of trading in. It would also require a build out of several moderate resorts to make the point system work. It doesn’t work well with just 1 Resort.
2. Keep the price per point equal to the deluxe resorts but make the points per night much lower. This makes trading in easy but it hurts profits and also could cause a log jam of current owners trying to extend their stays by booking the lowest point per night rooms. Think about how fast standard view rooms go at some resorts now and also how hard it has become to book during value season. You also have a big issue with MFs. A lot of the costs are relatively fixed but if you make the per night point rate lower you reduce the total number of points which makes the MFs per point higher. So you may have paid less upfront because you can buy half as many points but your total MF will be about the same as someone with twice as many points at a deluxe resort. You can offset some of this by cutting out deluxe amenities and reducing costs but not enough to keep MFs low. The only way to make it work is economies of scale. You need a huge moderate DVC resort to spread those fixed costs out. Probably something like a 2,000 room resort. It would be quite ambitious.
3. Another option is a hybrid of 1&2. Create a new moderate tier of DVC which is priced lower than deluxe but not as low as half the price then create an exchange rate between the tiers. Something like to trade-in from moderate to deluxe is 2 for 1. The price per point could then be reduced and the points per night could also be reduced. This system allows an occasional splurge for moderate owners to upgrade to deluxe but it wouldn’t be a “good deal” kinda similar to trading in DVC points for Disney hotel rooms. It would have be structured in such a way that there’s no way to game the system when trading between tiers. The trade-in would need to be neutral at best.

 

[admiralDax]

You can’t just make the price per point lower. That won’t work with the current program. There are a few ways to build a true moderate DVC program.

1. Make the moderate and deluxe tiers of DVC completely separate and don’t allow trade-ins between the 2. Easy to administer but you lose the valuable selling feature of trading in. It would also require a build out of several moderate resorts to make the point system work. It doesn’t work well with just 1 Resort.
2. Keep the price per point equal to the deluxe resorts but make the points per night much lower. This makes trading in easy but it hurts profits and also could cause a log jam of current owners trying to extend their stays by booking the lowest point per night rooms. Think about how fast standard view rooms go at some resorts now and also how hard it has become to book during value season. You also have a big issue with MFs. A lot of the costs are relatively fixed but if you make the per night point rate lower you reduce the total number of points which makes the MFs per point higher. So you may have paid less upfront because you can buy half as many points but your total MF will be about the same as someone with twice as many points at a deluxe resort. You can offset some of this by cutting out deluxe amenities and reducing costs but not enough to keep MFs low. The only way to make it work is economies of scale. You need a huge moderate DVC resort to spread those fixed costs out. Probably something like a 2,000 room resort. It would be quite ambitious.
3. Another option is a hybrid of 1&2. Create a new moderate tier of DVC which is priced lower than deluxe but not as low as half the price then create an exchange rate between the tiers. Something like to trade-in from moderate to deluxe is 2 for 1. The price per point could then be reduced and the points per night could also be reduced. This system allows an occasional splurge for moderate owners to upgrade to deluxe but it wouldn’t be a “good deal” kinda similar to trading in DVC points for Disney hotel rooms. It would have be structured in such a way that there’s no way to game the system when trading between tiers. The trade-in would need to be neutral at best.

Or simply create a whole new "club" for the moderates.

 

[Bocabear]

Or.....just call the moderate DVC a Deluxe since it offers Gondola transportation to EPCOT and DHS...Style the units using the Grand Floridian plan, Have a nicer pool area and Viola...Problem Solved....and let's face it, this would be every bit as nice if not nicer than Saratoga Springs....Where they would have a real problem would be trying to sell an All Star DVC...

 

[GoofGoof]

Or simply create a whole new "club" for the moderates.

That’s basically option 1 from my post. Have a separate moderate DVC tier that is not transferable with the current deluxe DVC resorts.

 

[GoofGoof]

Or.....just call the moderate DVC a Deluxe since it offers Gondola transportation to EPCOT and DHS...Style the units using the Grand Floridian plan, Have a nicer pool area and Viola...Problem Solved....and let's face it, this would be every bit as nice if not nicer than Saratoga Springs....Where they would have a real problem would be trying to sell an All Star DVC...

What’s the Grand Floridian plan?

IMHO the DVC rooms in most of the resorts are pretty comparable. The amenities at the DVC resorts attached to deluxe hotels are generally better since they are shared by the hotel. When building a standalone resort like this they need to up the amenities since there isn’t a deluxe resort attached already. It has to stand alone.

Having gondola transportation to 2 of 4 parks would be far superior to SSR buses for sure.

 

[Bocabear]

Grand Floridian styled interiors...They were made to look a little nicer and fancier than say Saratoga Springs (or even Boardwalk and Beach Club).. Dress the units appropriately, Have a couple nice dining non-food court options, a beautiful pool area and you have created a standalong Deluxe resort. The only thing that is missing is a pedestrian link to EPCOT...

 

[GoofGoof]

Grand Floridian styled interiors...They were made to look a little nicer and fancier than say Saratoga Springs (or even Boardwalk and Beach Club).. Dress the units appropriately, Have a couple nice dining non-food court options, a beautiful pool area and you have created a standalong Deluxe resort. The only thing that is missing is a pedestrian link to EPCOT...

Makes sense. They will already have the lounge on the roof for sure. I’m not sure if that is going to be a restaurant too or just a BLT style lounge. I think the pool area is key. If they plus that then there’s no way it doesn’t sell easily.

 

[nickys]

Makes sense. They will already have the lounge on the roof for sure. I’m not sure if that is going to be a restaurant too or just a BLT style lounge. I think the pool area is key. If they plus that then there’s no way it doesn’t sell easily.

It was said a rooftop restaurant at the DVC condo meeting.

The question is whether it will be DVC and Riviera guests exclusive or not. They make start out the former, as in a hybrid TOTWL /restaurant and expand it to all guests later if there's not enough demand.

 

[matt9112]

It was said a rooftop restaurant at the DVC condo meeting.

The question is whether it will be DVC and Riviera guests exclusive or not. They make start out the former, as in a hybrid TOTWL /restaurant and expand it to all guests later if there's not enough demand.

looks like a much easier roof top club to get into is going to be open sooner anyway. as a mere peasant I have only been to a few DVC/deluxe restaurants and that was when APs got real discounts with that limited promo. I really enjoyed it but would hate to ruin and I quote "the lobby experience" of the godly beings with rooms.

 

[matt9112]

When I see those price points my brain shuts down. 200 points = $40,000.

money and sense sadly are not exclusive if they were I would have an F40 in the garage. you know because who wants a car that doesn't excite your life insurance agent?

 

[GoofGoof]

It was said a rooftop restaurant at the DVC condo meeting.

The question is whether it will be DVC and Riviera guests exclusive or not. They make start out the former, as in a hybrid TOTWL /restaurant and expand it to all guests later if there's not enough demand.

I think they will try to make it DVC exclusive, at least while direct sales are going on. Agreed, if there isn’t enough demand they will have to open it up to the general public.

 

[eliza61nyc]

For my 50th my husband and i stayed at the 4 season in Paris. Room set us back 10 grand for 7 days. He had just finished his chemo and we were celebrating. I'm not saying it to brag but we could afford it and we felt it was money well spent.

I am amazed at how people will judge how others spend THEIR dough.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Cool trip. Has nothing to do with this. I too have stayed in expensive hotels!

Would you have paid 10k if the room was on offer for 5? That’s essentially what you’re doing if you pay Disney direct prices at 200pp.

Get it?

depends. buying direct does get you member perks that may or maynot be worth while to you. sort of like whether or not you want to buy a new luxury vehicle or used. I know quite a few people where 5K is pretty much extra cash in their monthly budget. If you are use to shelling out 10K-15k on a each vacation they would not blink an eye on buying direct to get the "extras".

And people have used that argument to criticize rich people for ever. "Why buy a 4,000 dollar pocketbook when my 60 dollar pocketbook does the same thing" humm because they want to and they can afford it.

Yep I get it, I get it any time folks comment on how people spend their money. lol, they don't like the way wealthy folks spend their cash.
The Polynesian is what 80% sold out? so in essence you are saying you think anyone who purchased their is stupid and you don't think that's rude??? really??

I purchase my dvc direct now at the time the price point wasn't 200 bucks ( I own at the Beach club villas) but I am neither stupid nor a "dingbat". I sat down with my late hubby, we discussed the pros and cons, we discussed how we would pay for it and then did so.

 

[seascape]

I have purchased most of my points resale but also purchased a small contract directly from DVC because we wanted Cooper Creek. We will also buy a small contract at Riviera because of the Skyliner and rooftop restuarant. We own at Boardwalk and love the walk to Epcot and Hollywood Studio but this is different and I am now retired and have more time to take trips. Is it crazy to pay that price? No, it is only crazy to spend money you can't afford on as my vacation.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Ok maybe I don't understand. I thought you were talking about why folks buy direct instead of resale.

Does Disney offer Poly points at two different prices?

Yes I am confused so I'll apologize and bow out. I have no idea what you mean.

You are right Disney will continue to raise the price as long as some one will buy it, which means someone, some where must find value in paying that price. That's a good thing!! that's how it is supposed to work. I have a product, I sell it for as much as I can get, I pitch it to make you believe that buying from me is absolutely better than getting it cheaper some where else.

That's the absolute neat thing about free market (or at least as free as we have it). You offer goods at a particular price, the consumer will either scoop it up at the price or they will feel that it's not worth the price forcing you to lower the price.

So obviously the people who are buying the resort at 220 dollars per point FEEL they are getting some value that makes it worth it. not sure how Aluani is doing sales why but the WDW property is having great sales.

I'm just asking why you feel that makes them stupid that's all.

 

[nickys]

When I see those price points my brain shuts down. 200 points = $40,000.



And yet, you are right, people with I guess more money then sense, keep paying it.

Well it comes down to what people want to spend their money on doesn't it? I wouldn't pay for a sports car or a Jag, but many do.

In any case, why use 200 points as an example? I suspect many DVC members are thinking of adding on with 25 or maybe 50 points. Bank and borrow and you have enough for a few nights, use other points to book at 7 months or do a split stay.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Well it comes down to what people want to spend their money on doesn't it? I wouldn't pay for a sports car or a Jag, but many do.

In any case, why use 200 points as an example? I suspect many DVC members are thinking of adding on with 25 or maybe 50 points. Bank and borrow and you have enough for a few nights, use other points to book at 7 months or do a split stay.

lol, oh thank God, I was begininng to wonder if I was the only one who thought that way.

 

[nickys]

Oy. Talk about missing the point and being a pompous you know what at the same time.

I hesitate to continue this conversation with you, as it's pretty clear you just don't get it...and yet, here I go, maybe I am the dingbat....

It's not the same as buying used v new. It's not the same as buying Fendi instead of Target. I couldn't care less how people spend their money. I am sure some folks would be appalled how I spend mine.

Here is the analogy. You are booking a room at let's say, The Grand Floridian(I picked that because you are so rich. we are all impressed btw) You call up Disney and say,

"I'd like a room at the GF, I want the top level suite because I am rich you see"

They then offer you the same room for the same dates, at different prices. You can either pay 15k for the week, or 10k. You pick Ma'am.

"Pfft, did you not remember that I am rich good sir? I will pay the 15k. Good day!"

Do you see? I know you don't. It's ok.

Anyways....

The point I was making was, Disney will continue to raise the price per point, because there seems to be a never ending pool of people willing to pay whatever they decide to charge. :shrugs:

Not sure I get the point of this?

The only option to buy into Riviera initially will be direct. And like I said in another reply, before I saw the continuing debate, many Riviera buyers will be adding on with 25 or 50 points. Others will buy 75 as new buyers.

Very, very few will be buying 200 points direct. IMO.

I imagine they'll have a timeframe of about 2 years to have sold something like 70% of points. With SW:GE and the other new stuff opening 2020/2021 , I think it will sell without problems. People are buying in with a lot less points than they used to, which is putting pressure on studio availability in particular.

 

[xdan0920]

Not sure I get the point of this?

The only option to buy into Riviera initially will be direct. And like I said in another reply, before I saw the continuing debate, many Riviera buyers will be adding on with 25 or 50 points. Others will buy 75 as new buyers.

Very, very few will be buying 200 points direct. IMO.

I imagine they'll have a timeframe of about 2 years to have sold something like 70% of points. With SW:GE and the other new stuff opening 2020/2021 , I think it will sell without problems. People are buying in with a lot less points than they used to, which is putting pressure on studio availability in particular.

Why do you think people are buying in at less points?

 

[nickys]

I feel like there is some confusion here. I’m not trying to stop anyone from buying direct from Disney for $200+ a point. I’m just pointing out that it’s dumb. Like if you bought a Jaguar for 97k when they were offering it for 67k next door.

But they're not! The only option will be direct, at first. And I have a feeling it will take longer for resales to hit the market with this resort, with the planned park additions up to 2021 and beyond. There will be enough demand for small buy-ins to make this a success.