News Disney removing plastic straws and more by mid-2019

[LittleBuford]

Since there is too much in this thread to quickly find the answer (the soap dispensers should have their own thread), has it been determined if Disney is getting rid of straws, period or replacing plastic straws with paper straws? If they are replacing them with paper, why can't they just replace them with bioplastic (biodegradable/compostable) straws? These seem to be available for under 4 cents each. Can't they just switch to these and raise the drink prices by 5 cents to cover the cost (and make some profit since the old straws weren't free to them)?

Tijuana Flats uses Styrofoam cups that are 92% biodegradable. Those are the types of "green" initiatives that we should be striving for. Initiatives that don't reduce quality of life, have negligible increased cost and provide and significantly reduce environmental impact.

The issue with bioplastics is that they're not as biodegradable as one might think:

https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2017/12/13/the-truth-about-bioplastics/

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...lastic-false-solution-for-ocean-waste-problem

 

[Todd H]

Here is the straw solution we've all been waiting for!

FinalStraw!

 

[LittleBuford]

I have no desire to get into a debate. I just was replying that not everyone is in agreement, and that some of the different opinions are because of the environmental impacts of creating the paper straws.

My statement was that the environmental impact of paper straws was less than that of plastic straws, not that it was nil. If you have no evidence to the contrary, then all you’re doing is disagreeing for the sake of it. If anyone here really does believe—and can demonstrate—that paper straws cause more damage to the environment than plastic ones, I’d be genuinely interested to hear them out.

ETA: I’m not a paper-straw advocate per se. The best option is simply not to use any straw at all, unless you actually need one.

 

[Nubs70]

I can’t find any information online to show that PFAS is used to treat paper straws. Interestingly, San Francisco introduced a PFAS ban alongside a plastic straw ban: https://earther.gizmodo.com/this-latest-straw-ban-also-comes-with-a-ban-on-toxic-fo-1827926215

PFAS is one option. Wet strength is a definite.

Epichlorohydrine (a Prop 65 carcinogen) the main ingredient of wet strength. Wet strength contains differing amounts of epi residual based on class of wet strength. Currently only Class 3 and 4 wet strength comply with EU BfR regulations. Worldwide supply of Class 3 and 4 wet strength is at maximum capacity.

 

[LittleBuford]

PFAS is one option. Wet strength is a definite.

Epichlorohydrine (a Prop 65 carcinogen) the main ingredient of wet strength. Wet strength contains differing amounts of epi residual based on class of wet strength. Currently only Class 3 and 4 wet strength comply with EU BfR regulations. Worldwide supply of Class 3 and 4 wet strength is at maximum capacity.

Are these chemicals used in the production of paper straws, though? Don’t paper straws predate plastic ones anyway? I always thought of them as rather old-fashioned.

 

[Lensman]

Are these chemicals used in the production of paper straws, though? Don’t paper straws predate plastic ones anyway? I always thought of them as rather old-fashioned.

The old-time paper straws didn't have much "wet strength". I was thinking that the new high quality ones would get their "wet strength" from the same waxy coating that the paper cups do, but I haven't actually experienced the new-fangled high wet-strength paper straws.

Hey, I just read that nowadays, paper cups are frequently waterproofed with a thin coating of polyethylene that makes them very difficult to recycle. Interesting, though I also found a couple of articles about recycling firms developing processes to separate the layers in order to recycle paper cups.

 

[LittleBuford]

The old-time paper straws didn't have much "wet strength". I was thinking that the new high quality ones would get their "wet strength" from the same waxy coating that the paper cups do, but I haven't actually experienced the new-fangled high wet-strength paper straws.

Hey, I just read that nowadays, paper cups are frequently waterproofed with a thin coating of polyethylene. Interesting.

I don’t doubt that some very dubious chemicals are being used to make paper food packaging waterproof. I’m just trying to ascertain whether this issue extends also to paper straws.

 

[Lensman]

I don’t doubt that some very dubious chemicals are being used to make paper food packaging waterproof. I’m just trying to ascertain whether this issue extends also to paper straws.

Apparently, no problem if you're using a paper straw manufactured by Aardvark!
https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/175...tic-straw-ban-aardvark-interview-david-rhodes

We don’t use any coatings. It’s just a special paper. It’s [from] a tree that was planted in a sustainable, forestry-safe initiative, so it’s got the cleanest, greenest carbon footprint you could ever have on paper. People want to say, “It should be recyclable.” When you really study recycled paper, the total footprint... It’s pretty ugly, and so what we’re doing today is the cleanest. It’s a special grade of paper, a special adhesive. It’s obviously food grade. You and I literally could drink the glue. We could eat the paper. It’s that safe.

 

[LittleBuford]

No... your statement was:
"But I think we can all agree that paper straws, whatever their shortcomings, are still better for the environment than plastic ones."

I simply stated that we do NOT all agree with that statement. Again. I have no desire to argue why, just pointing out that there is not agreement on the topic. Can't you accept that?

Yes, I said "better for"; it's a comparative, not a superlative. I am simply saying that, between plastic straws and paper ones, the latter are the environmentally friendlier option. Can anyone seriously disagree with this?

This whole thread is just bizarre. Are you guys all lobbyists for the plastics industry or something?

 

[larryz]

Apparently, no problem if you're using a paper straw manufactured by Aardvark!
https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/175...tic-straw-ban-aardvark-interview-david-rhodes

But I thought trees had a negative carbon footprint...

 

[Nubs70]

Are these chemicals used in the production of paper straws, though? Don’t paper straws predate plastic ones anyway? I always thought of them as rather old- fashioned.

Wet strength is a must have to keep the structural integrity of the straw. Without, the straw will turn to mush.

The old-time paper straws didn't have much "wet strength". I was thinking that the new high quality ones would get their "wet strength" from the same waxy coating that the paper cups do, but I haven't actually experienced the new-fangled high wet-strength paper straws.

Hey, I just read that nowadays, paper cups are frequently waterproofed with a thin coating of polyethylene that makes them very difficult to recycle. Interesting, though I also found a couple of articles about recycling firms developing processes to separate the layers in order to recycle paper cups.

Polyethylene coatings are easy to remove with high consistency pulping, 6 cut pressure screens followed by forward/reverse cleaners.

 

[Jon81uk]

While I fully agree in that I also have never heard of a single complaint, keep in mind a TON of people refuse to use them. By putting these in, especially the business-style hotels, has either further encouraged bringing your own or converted travelers to bringing their own. I travel for a living and know of not a single business traveler that would touch these. With regard to the lock, it’s meaningless. The way these pumps work, you simply press the pump down, and as it travels back up it will suck anything that is in the opening. Try it with your own shampoo bottle pump. Press some into your hand and before letting it back up, hold the end in your hand and the shampoo will go right back in the bottle. And not to be gross but... just use your imagination as to how easily anything can be added to these bottles.

Again, I agree that there are few if any complaints. But these numbers may be slanted because of the number of people actually using them (or not using them). IMO, this, like the plastic lids and straws, is a cost cutting measure and nothing more. Ironically, I have zero issue with either as I bring my own shampoo regardless and have been able to handle lidless cups for years lol

Yeah this is like a lot of these other "urban myth" type things, it doesn't actually happen. Anyone who really wants to tamper with these things would have the key to get in anyway. Allowing it to suck up a tiny amount of something is not worth the time and effort of booking into a hotel room just to tamper with a shampoo bottle and give someone a small inconvenience. To really hurt people you would need to get into the bottle and have access to acid etc and those sort of people are really unlikely to pay for the hotel room, they would do it someone you can go to for free like rest rooms or pool showers.

Most businessmen travellers don't care what shampoo they are using and reach for whatever is convenient. Those who really care will bring their own no matter what and don't care if it is tiny bottles in the room or larger bottles.

 

[LittleBuford]

Yes, I do seriously disagree with your statement.

So you believe that plastic straws are better for the environment than paper ones? On what basis do you think this?

 

[John park hopper]

The ever increasing world population is doing more damage to the environment than a plastic or paper straw will ever do

 

[Lensman]

The ever increasing world population is doing more damage to the environment than a plastic or paper straw will ever do

Thanos FTW?

 

[King Capybara 77]

But I thought trees had a negative carbon footprint...

I thought Groot and the Ents were the only trees with footprints ...

 

[LittleBuford]

@LittleBuford I appreciate your passion for what you believe. But, as I have stated, I have no desire to debate the topic, nor debate the merits of either of our opinions. I've been involved in discussions like this too many times - going way back to the 90's and the UseNet. I'd get all hot and bothered trying to convince someone that I was right and they were wrong. Those discussions literally ended with no change in opinions - we just got tired of arguing. At long last I concluded that rarely will opinions change through an online argument. There is still value in sharing differing opinions, but when the discussion goes from listening and sharing to trying to change someone, that's where it ends for me. So, I prefer to close this exchange with a simple acknowledgment that we disagree on this topic, but I truly hope your next WDW trip is a magical one. I salute you and your passion with a Dole Whip toast

I am actually fully prepared to change my opinion if you (or anyone else) can present evidence that paper straws are worse for the environment than plastic ones. It’s a surprising claim to me, and one I was genuinely interested to see backed up with facts and figures.

You began a debate with me yet claim you don’t want to debate. Fair enough. I, too, wish you happy Disney holidays.

 

[Lensman]

Our goal here isn't to agree. It isn't even to agree to disagree or spout our various incendiary opinions, whether fact-based or urban myth. We should be striving to move the discussion forward by contributing collectively collected facts and perspectives.

Well, maybe not even that. Mostly we should just be commiserating about the smallest trivial first-world problems we notice at the parks.

No, no, I must resist! We should be using our collective wisdom to figure out how to deal with the inconvenience of Disney's new straw policy. Are there classes somewhere I can take on how to drink from a cup without using a straw? Is it made easier if I become more European and go without ice? Or maybe I should spring for the refillable mugs? If I buy a draink will they put it in my own refillable mug instead of using the disposable cup or do I have to take a drink in the disposable cup and pour it into my own mug, discarding the paper cup after a few seconds of use?

 

[21stamps]

Are there classes somewhere I can take on how to drink from a cup without using a straw?

Yes, it’s called toddlerhood.

 

[21stamps]

Had to come here specifically to post this..

A kid drinking out of a cup, no straw.. at an amusement park... and it didn’t spill, not even when walking.

So crazy, right?!?!