Disney plus Imagineering

[Kram Sacul]

If line length is a measure of how popular something is then the straws didn't hurt attendance either. It's just as popular as before. From their point of view, it now fits their marketing and is relevant. No harm. No foul.

They could’ve left Tower alone and still built their mini Marvel land. They wasted 100+ million for an overlay that angered fans and ruined the sight lines of the park. We’re going to be stuck with the fugly mistake forever.

 

[choco choco]

"If you look at it through the eyes of someone who has no nostalgia for that, who doesn't know anything about it, [the Shanghai guests] said 'Wow, this is slow and boring'. And they said that "I felt like I was looking through little windows and the action was out there somewhere, but I wasn't in it'".

- Bob Weis

This is the quote from episode 6 of the show. The implication by saying this is that anyone who rides PotC for the first time now would think this, and we know that's not true just from how popular the ride is at the four other Magic Kingdoms. Millions of people experience it every year. They're not all APs or people who rode it as children.

I am not opposed to this line of thinking Bob Weis. I am, however, opposed to the line of the thinking that the only way to solve this problem is with shoving in a plot where "something goes wrong" and riders are put in some sort of danger situation. This is already a predictable cliche in the industry and audiences have been so conditioned to expect it that every bit of surprise it once had is lost. The wow factor is completely gone using this approach.

The Imagineering challenge now is finding other artistic ways to have rider engagement without going this route.

 

[Mac Tonight]

I am not opposed to this line of thinking Bob Weis. I am, however, opposed to the line of the thinking that the only way to solve this problem is with shoving in a plot where "something goes wrong" and riders are put in some sort of danger situation. This is already a predictable cliche in the industry and audiences have been so conditioned to expect it that every bit of surprise it once had is lost. The wow factor is completely gone using this approach.

The Imagineering challenge now is finding other artistic ways to have rider engagement without going this route.

To be fair though, we are talking about an attraction involving Pirates... so “something going wrong” kind of comes with the territory.

The burden of a thrill ride (even a slower moving one) will always be in keeping guests in suspense or just on the edge of death (this was discussed in an earlier episode re: the Matterhorn). I’m not really sure you’d want a roller coaster or high speed dark ride where you felt totally “safe”.

 

[choco choco]

To be fair though, we are talking about an attraction involving Pirates... so “something going wrong” kind of comes with the territory.

The burden of a thrill ride (even a slower moving one) will always be in keeping guests in suspense or just on the edge of death (this was discussed in an earlier episode re: the Matterhorn). I’m not really sure you’d want a roller coaster or high speed dark ride where you felt totally “safe”.

Nothing goes wrong on the Pirate ride. It doesn't draw any of its entertainment value from making the audience feel threatened.

There are loads of other moods and tones to tap into. Marc Davis was really, really good at feeling other ones out. I want Imagineering to remember this ability.

 

[BrianLo]

I posted a direct quote. He tries explaining why they thought it was boring by suggesting that anyone who goes in blind ("no nostalgia" "no prior knowledge") will probably think that. His choice of words.

Regardless of his wording, I think the point that mainland audiences were not connecting to the ride and it needed to be redone for their market was valid. I hope Bob Weis doesn't personally think Pirates is boring.

I realize it has worked for many other markets, including plenty of North Americans experiencing it for the first time. The downfall of companies broaching China has just been a line of thought that it works domestically, it works for Europe, it works for Japan, surely it will work for China... but then it doesn't. See Star Wars or Harry Potter.


Shanghai Disney is not to some North American tastes, but it has landed pretty well with that audience. Imagineering did a great job of retaining some recognizable 'castle park' tastes to push forward that market, but also bowing where needed.

Universal has some more bombastic properties and perhaps they won't run into much trouble as a result, but overall I see a lot less effort on their behest to try and connect to that audience. I worry Potter is going to fall flat.

 

[lazyboy97o]

By openly admitting they effed up DCA, Paris Studios, etc.
Showing that the company doesn't always get it right the first time and has to make changes.

By outright lies are you referring to factual errors or just matters of opinion?

They openly admit to that stuff to then claim Iger is the great savior. They completely ignore Iger’s role in going along with Eisner as President and COO in how to “fix” those parks. Obviously Iger‘s initial idea of how to fix the problem after he is CEO is not addressed.

Haunted Mansion Holiday was not an Imagineering project. It was done by the park’s entertainment team in 2001 under the leadership of Cynthia Harris. Per the show’s chronology it belongs in Episode 4 between the opening of Disney’s California Adventure and Walt Disney Studios Park.

Iger is not the one who recognized that Hong Kong Disneyland needed more attractions. The Government of Hong Kong had been furious before the park even opened, when Disney started with their “Chinese people don’t like rides” nonsense and built a park far smaller than what they initially announced. As President and COO, Iger would have been well aware of the park’s change in scope and the resulting fury. Disney wasn’t being generous when they foot 100% of the bill for the three land expansion.

Ratatouille’s trackless ride vehicles were not developed for that attraction. The LPS ride system was developed for Pooh’s Hunny Hunt, which opened 13 years prior in 2000. Ratatouille also did not make Disneyland Paris (Resort) the most popular tourist destination in Europe, it was a title the resort already held.

More a convenient omission, but the show highlights Disneyland looking great for the 60th and completely ignores all of the work that went into the 50th. Refurbishments and maintenance are also largely the scope of the parks, not Walt Disney Imagineering.

Disney had only owned Marvel for six months and the Marvel Cinematic Universe only consistent of three movies when the attractions for Shanghai Disneyland were decided in the summer of 2010. TRON wasn’t competing with Iron Man or Universal‘s Hulk.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The above post does raise an interesting point, this was a bit more of a documentary on the parks themselves and not too much about imagineering.

 

[RobWDW1971]

I am not opposed to this line of thinking Bob Weis. I am, however, opposed to the line of the thinking that the only way to solve this problem is with shoving in a plot where "something goes wrong" and riders are put in some sort of danger situation. This is already a predictable cliche in the industry and audiences have been so conditioned to expect it that every bit of surprise it once had is lost. The wow factor is completely gone using this approach.

The Imagineering challenge now is finding other artistic ways to have rider engagement without going this route.

And yet ROTR....

 

[Mac Tonight]

They openly admit to that stuff to then claim Iger is the great savior. They completely ignore Iger’s role in going along with Eisner as President and COO in how to “fix” those parks. Obviously Iger‘s initial idea of how to fix the problem after he is CEO is not addressed.

Haunted Mansion Holiday was not an Imagineering project. It was done by the park’s entertainment team in 2001 under the leadership of Cynthia Harris. Per the show’s chronology it belongs in Episode 4 between the opening of Disney’s California Adventure and Walt Disney Studios Park.

Iger is not the one who recognized that Hong Kong Disneyland needed more attractions. The Government of Hong Kong had been furious before the park even opened, when Disney started with their “Chinese people don’t like rides” nonsense and built a park far smaller than what they initially announced. As President and COO, Iger would have been well aware of the park’s change in scope and the resulting fury. Disney wasn’t being generous when they foot 100% of the bill for the three land expansion.

Ratatouille’s trackless ride vehicles were not developed for that attraction. The LPS ride system was developed for Pooh’s Hunny Hunt, which opened 13 years prior in 2000. Ratatouille also did not make Disneyland Paris (Resort) the most popular tourist destination in Europe, it was a title the resort already held.

More a convenient omission, but the show highlights Disneyland looking great for the 60th and completely ignores all of the work that went into the 50th. Refurbishments and maintenance are also largely the scope of the parks, not Walt Disney Imagineering.

Disney had only owned Marvel for six months and the Marvel Cinematic Universe only consistent of three movies when the attractions for Shanghai Disneyland were decided in the summer of 2010. TRON wasn’t competing with Iron Man or Universal‘s Hulk.

Aight. Damn.

All I was saying is that they were self-critical enough for me to not consider it a puff piece.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Nothing goes wrong on the Pirate ride. It doesn't draw any of its entertainment value from making the audience feel threatened.

There are loads of other moods and tones to tap into. Marc Davis was really, really good at feeling other ones out. I want Imagineering to remember this ability.

Really? Nothing? I guess you pass by a lot of cannon fire in your everyday life then.

Would you be in favor of a “safe” version of ROTR? By your own estimation it is using the cliched formula and therefore “the wow factor is completely gone”. I think I disagree in this instance.

 

[choco choco]

And yet ROTR....

Really? Nothing? I guess you pass by a lot of cannon fire in your everyday life then.

Would you be in favor of a “safe” version of ROTR? By your own estimation it is using the cliched formula and therefore “the wow factor is completely gone”. I think I disagree in this instance.

Fits the property well. George Lucas type of adolescent adventure stories. You'll notice it doesn't work well for Ratatouille, which is why that ride isn't as successful. It's also key to admit that the "plot" of a ride is maybe the sixth or seventh most important thing about it, which is why Imagineering's focus on it in recent years is so worrying.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

You'll notice it doesn't work well for Ratatouille, which is why that ride isn't as successful.

Ratatouille, the ride, is based more on the teaser trailer than the actual movie. That would explain the disconnect.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Fits the property well. George Lucas type of adolescent adventure stories. You'll notice it doesn't work well for Ratatouille, which is why that ride isn't as successful. It's also key to admit that the "plot" of a ride is maybe the sixth or seventh most important thing about it, which is why Imagineering's focus on it in recent years is so worrying.

Less plot and more spectatorial attractions fit the Star Wars property well?!?? Where does that even come from?

Star Wars is one of the ultimate good vs evil themed properties out there. If an attraction isn’t putting smack dab in the middle of the action, then it fails big time.

No one is going to queue up for Jar Jar’s Junkyard Jamboree.

 

[Phroobar]

Less plot and more spectatorial attractions fit the Star Wars property well?!?? Where does that even come from?

Star Wars is one of the ultimate good vs evil themed properties out there. If an attraction isn’t putting smack dab in the middle of the action, then it fails big time.

No one is going to queue up for Jar Jar’s Junkyard Jamboree.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Disneyland diver finds lost wedding rings, tossed turkey legs and mysterious sunken head under the sea

Disneyland diver Thomas Self is one of more than 70 Disney cast members featured in the new ‘One Day at Disney’ docuseries on the Disney+ streaming service and the accompanying coffee t…

www.ocregister.com

 

[smooch]

Disneyland diver finds lost wedding rings, tossed turkey legs and mysterious sunken head under the sea

Disneyland diver Thomas Self is one of more than 70 Disney cast members featured in the new ‘One Day at Disney’ docuseries on the Disney+ streaming service and the accompanying coffee t…

www.ocregister.com

I have to admit I am kinda confused how the One Day at Disney series works? I will admit I turned off the hour long video after like 20 minutes when it just kept talking about the Good Morning America host or whoever that was, but I keep seeing there are new 5 minute or so episodes being released weekly, but that there is a very large number of those in total to premiere. Was this diver guy featured in the hour long one and if not is he going to be in the short 5 minute releases? I know this is a little off topic I just got disinterested after hearing about the talk show host for so long.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

I posted a direct quote. He tries explaining why they thought it was boring by suggesting that anyone who goes in blind ("no nostalgia" "no prior knowledge") will probably think that. His choice of words.

You posted a direct quote, sure, but the quote in isolation does indeed strip the context out of the equation. As others have said, he was specifically speaking about those from Shanghai who were brought to DLR to experience the attraction. That's quite literally the context. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

So they didn't put Space Mountain in Shanghai, because they were worried that guests not familiar with the usual Disney Parks conventions wouldn't know it's a rollercoaster and instead think of it as a Kodak photo spot.

So why did they put it in The Magic Kingdom, right next to SM?

 

[celluloid]

So they didn't put Space Mountain in Shanghai, because they were worried that guests not familiar with the usual Disney Parks conventions wouldn't know it's a rollercoaster and instead think of it as a Kodak photo spot.

So why did they put it in The Magic Kingdom, right next to SM?

Exactly. And as stated above the episode was very pat on the Back Iger. Past CEOs were mentioned and interviewed, but the last two felt like The Iger Hour. The shot of him with Lassetter(surprised they kept that guy in the show) pointing and asking about trees for Carsland was very staged. The show went from Imagineering to a different format with the final two.

Also, the "just trust us" thing is insulting and contradicting to the challenge of Imagineering. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. But the audience is ultimately are the ones who gets to decide. If they get away with something, good for business, if the guests are speaking their concerns, especially with their wallets. They are in the right. That is how it works. Documented core values and even in earlier episodes of the same series were contradicted with that concept as well. Joe Rhode had it right early on and then the show became "We know what is best" near the end. Not to mention the examples in the past of Walt not wanting gates over a flowerbed guests had trampled on to cross and get to Fantasyland Dark Rides, but rather, built a path through it as a walk through garden. The last episode was short for a reason, what a bunch of fluff.

 

[PiratesMansion]

So they didn't put Space Mountain in Shanghai, because they were worried that guests not familiar with the usual Disney Parks conventions wouldn't know it's a rollercoaster and instead think of it as a Kodak photo spot.

So why did they put it in The Magic Kingdom, right next to SM?

I've now heard in places beyond the Imagineering Story that people in Hong Kong legitimately didn't get that it was a roller coaster, so I can buy that they'd want something more transparent for Shanghai.

They're putting it in MK next to Space Mountain because they're lazy, it's easier to clone than to come up with their own designs, and they want the Instagram hits.