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Disney plus Imagineering
- Thread starter blocker.shane
- Start date
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Expedition Everest is only 13 years old, not 20. Pixar Pier also cost more than $100 million, with @FerretAfros saying it may have even passed $200 million by the very end. The project was far better funded than the results.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree with the results. Others were throwing the 100 million number out there and I was just questioning If that would be enough for modern WDI to do a good job redressing an entire land. Even at 100 million I think they could have done better but if it’s double that then their is just no excuse. With that said, I don’t know what any of this stuff really costs. I can only compare comparable projects.
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wow I’m trying to justify it:
1) Redesigned Pier sign with animatronic Luxo Lamp
2) Redesigned Ariels Grotto restaurant
3) Redesigned Entrance shop
4) Redesigned Ice cream stand
5) New Billboards
6) Redesigned California Screamin
7) Redesigned Carousel
8) Redesigned Fun Wheel
9) Redesigned Boardwalk Games
10) Chicken Happy Meal
11) Angry Dogs stand
12) Buzz Churro stand
13) Redesigned candy shop
14) Emotional Whirlwind
15) Pixar cosmic waves ball
16) Pixar promenade stage
17) Jack Jack cookie stand
100 to 200 mil? Ouch!!!! I just don’t see it, they should’ve treated this the way didFantasyland back in 83 for that kinda money
Anjin
Well-Known Member
Finally got to watch episode four and was once again impressed with the handling this difficult era. In keeping with the episode's theme, I thought it fitting that the twin feature rides were Superstar Limo and Soarin' Over California. Joe Rohde and Animal Kingdom seemed like the right calls for the highlight of this era domestically. A shame that they could only give what seemed like a little time to Tokyo DisneySea, but there was a lot of ground to cover. I'll be curious if the next two episodes have a featured Imagineer.
My call is episode 5 is the recovery efforts, i.e. DCA 2.0, (not a huge leap based on the sneak peek) and episode 6 is Pandora and Galaxy's Edge. I have some faith that the series will end on a hopeful note instead of a triumphant one.
My call is episode 5 is the recovery efforts, i.e. DCA 2.0, (not a huge leap based on the sneak peek) and episode 6 is Pandora and Galaxy's Edge. I have some faith that the series will end on a hopeful note instead of a triumphant one.
FerretAfros
Well-Known Member
The internal number I was told was around $230M.
WDI is utterly incapable of delivering projects at a reasonable cost, but the upper level management has so little industry experience that they’re unaware of how unsustainable it is. These are not simple rounding mistakes or last-minute changes; they’re orders of magnitude higher than they should be. For the price of Pixar Pier, we should have gotten multiple new attractions and facilities in addition to the aesthetic redo; what was delivered is embarrassing.
Ambiguous “budget cuts” are often blamed for elements removed from projects during the design phase (darkened rooms on Indy, rock work in Toy Story Land, nearly anything designated as “Phase II,” etc.), but the overwhelming majority of the time these items are removed because WDI can’t deliver a project within the allotted budget, not that the budget was lowered partway through. This has been an ongoing issue for many years, but the problems have become particularly acute in the last 5-7 years.
WDI’s project costs are even more concerning when you consider that they’re increasingly based on the IP flavor du jour, and will likely need to be overhauled in just a few years. In the past they were at least able to deliver somewhat-cheap things that could be easily swapped out in the future; these days, everything is priced like a serious long-term investment, even if the content has an obviously short shelf life.
el_super
Well-Known Member
I don't think its really changed all that much in the last few years, compared to Tomorrowland '98 (21 years ago) when the same exact thing happened. WDI was given a budget and a timeframe and was unable to deliver. That failure led to Pressler taking on oversight of WDI, so there certainly could have been an ulterior motive there. So far there hasn't been any major changes afyer the Pixar Pier experiment, but that cost would certainly be justification to clean house.
WDI cannot operate in a timeframe that works for the studios. When it takes five years to design and build an attraction, the idea of having a timely opening to coincide with a movie flies out the window. Look at the delays with Rise of the Resistance to see how this is the impossible dream.
Pixar Pier was an experiment to give them a blank check and see what they could do in six months and ... Meh.
To be honest though this is a problem corporate wide. Even Disneyland Entertainment used to be able to push out a new parade every year for a new movie, and now with so many years of development thats just as impossible.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Tomorrowland 98 was a project where small budgets themselves were cut after being approved. Tony wrongly thought he could somehow pull a miracle and redo Tomorrowland for just about the same amount of money as was just spent on the Indiana Jones Adventure (He also now admits he was wrong and should have fought for more). To say Pressler was given oversight of Walt Disney Imagineering is a bit of a narrow view, yes he became their boss but it was because he was promoted to President of Walt Disney Attractions with Judson Green retaining the Chairmanship until 2000 and the division being reconfigured as Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. Bob Weis already reports to Chapek, and previously to Staggs. The Chairmen of the parks have all been tasked with getting Imagineering's costs down, there has been lots of house cleaning (and even going to far as toying with a near shut down of the division) and they still can't get things under control because they the job is being tasked to someone who is fundamentally clueless about the design and construction process, the attractions industry and what should be a reasonable premium.
Model3 McQueen
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
el_super
Well-Known Member
Eh Just a different way of looking at it. When parts of the project had ridiculous overruns (like the seven figures it cost to repaint Space Mountain), the money had to be pulled from other areas of the project to cover. There was just a huge lack of financial management and no desire to allow the budget to creep up.
Prior to 1999, Marty reported to Eisner directly. WDI was essentially their own segment of the company. After Tomorrowland 98 they were re-alligned under Parks.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yeah, but go through and try to capture what that 'redressing' really delivered. Should they be spending millions for new paint and signs?
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Of course not. But then there are things like enclosing the scream tunnels and things of that nature. I have no idea how much that stuff costs. Also, do these estimates include labor?
smooch
Well-Known Member
The only thing that ever pulls me out of the attraction is how large the ride vehicle looks compared to the rest of the mountain, specifically in the spot it is located in the picture. It really shows how small the mountain actually is, if the ride vehicle wasn't in the picture the sense of scale would be a lot better for me.
TROR
Well-Known Member
Yep. It should’ve been covered up. Also the rock work just isn’t very impressive. Big Thunder and the Matterhorn look better and they’re far older.
smooch
Well-Known Member
I agree they have better rock work and by comparison Everest is the worst looking but I do think it is very impressive still. When I visited WDW in March this year I was still in awe when seeing Everest for the first time of the trip / second time of my life.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Usually construction costs are included. Since they were operating under an expedited time frame, and didn't want to keep Screamin' down for an extended period, there would have been a lot of overtime charged out to the project. There would also be a lot of ancillary costs charged to the project too, like keeping the DLR gates open for construction access and training the team in Anaheim how to maintain the new props and equipment. Things like that usually all get charged to the project too. Put it on an accelerated timeline and that = $$$$.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Ive never seen it in person but now that you mention it, it does look a little dinky in pictures. Are there better angles?
Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
It's 199 feet. Anything over 200 feet requires a blinking light on top to alert aircraft. Obviously that would ruin the illusion of it being a mountain so you won't see Disney cross the 200 foot threshold in the parks.
It looks bigger in person in part because Florida is so flat that any "mountain" looks somewhat significant.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Episode 4 was a real knife-turner.
RIP Westcot. We barely knew you...
I also feel like this is the last "real" episode we'll get. Meaning, everything from now on is going to be far less critical and more "Iger is lord" rubbish.
RIP Westcot. We barely knew you...
I also feel like this is the last "real" episode we'll get. Meaning, everything from now on is going to be far less critical and more "Iger is lord" rubbish.