Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

[Cesar R M]

And the hotel occupancy rate in April 2014 was 77% compared to 72% in April 2013. That is 7,000 more hotel rooms of people. Most customer have more than 2 people in a room when on vacations but even with just 2 people that is 14,000 a day more people in Orlando this year than last year. If the rest of the year stayed the same it would be 5,110,000. Now not all of this is only for the parks but even half, 2,500,000 people, would be a 3.5% increase in attendance at all the parks figuring 70 million between Universal, Disney, Sea World and the other smaller parks. in reality it should be more like a 5% increase just from vacationers. The increase at Universal should be even higher from the locals going more often to soak in all the new HP stuff.

Are these RAW numbers based on TOTAL room numbers? or only "available" numbers?

This also as been discussed many times.... Disney loves to manipulate the numbers by adding DVC into account and removing large blocks of available rooms to raise occupancy % numbers.

Let's not forget that Disney already DID report that they earned increase $$$. They claimed it was thanks to NextGen and MM+ (which like we all know its BS.. as it was due of the park ticket hike and general price hikes park around).

I remember someone did the math in the forums already.. that if you take the price hike increase from the revenue growth.. you get the same average growth as every year.

While Uni is growing at a steadier faster rate (if the numbers posted in the forum are correct).

 

[lazyboy97o]

Clicked on the link but I found absolutely nothing showing Universal guests are spending more money than Disney guests in Florida. Lots of news stories about Universal but if you Google Disney guest spending you get, for the most part the same stories. Any other proof or is Google all you have? If thats all I rest my case.

Read the SEC filings.

 

[stlphil]

Is

I was once a Pixie-dust addict. We went to WDW every year. Some of my favorite memories are from past WDW trips. But something happened. My wife and I decided to spend a few days at Universal.

Honestly, I didn't want to like Universal. They were the enemy, more akin to Six Flags than a real theme park. I thought there was no way it would compare to my beloved WDW. And you know what? I could not have been more wrong.

The very first day I noticed there was something different in the air. Where the staff at WDW seemed a little less helpful and friendly our last trip (some bordering on being out right rude) the staff at Universal were all smiles and ready to help you at a moment's notice. There was excitement in the air. Everything felt more relaxed. There was no rushing to fit everything in between dining reservations and fastpasses. It was what an actual vacation should be.

In those two days I experienced some amazing attractions. Some of those attractions, like Spider-Man and HPaFJ, are heads and shoulders above anything at WDW. And the detail of Hogwarts was mind blowing. It's everything I used to expect from WDW. It was cathartic. And when we wanted to grab something to eat besides quick service, we didn't have to make reservations months in advance and work our park schedule around them.

When we went to WDW the next year, my eyes were opened. There was no comparison. Everything seemed stale. Rides always seemed to be in a state of disrepair. The staff was even ruder than before. Everyone did the WDW rush to get in as many rides as possible between dining reservations. People looked tired and miserable. And the park seemed "dirty." Trash littered the streets and sidewalks. And as I rode the same rides I'd been riding over and over again for years, the last bits of pixie dust left my system. Even my wife, who lives and breathes Disney agreed. WDW had lost some of its magic.

Now we're planning a November trip to Universal. My son, who loves WDW, now can't wait to go to Universal. You see, he loves Despicable Me, the Simpsons, and Dr. Seuss. He rarely ever talks about any Disney characters any more. He's moved on, like a lot of kids this generation.

Does this mean I've given up on Disney for good? Absolutely not. But when the best they can do is a kiddie coaster and billion dollar plastic wristbands while Universal is building incredibly themed land and world class attractions, it's hard to want to drag myself back to ride Peter Pan for the 10,543 time at a time I reserved months in advance. Planning every damn minute of a vacation isn't a vacation. It's work. Which is exactly from what I'm trying to escape.

Isn't it ironic that the intervention for Pixie-dust addiction is WDW itself?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

It's very easy to figure out wht attendance is starting to grow at Uni, they are building themed immersive lands and rides like Disney used to, and a lot quicker.
Just take a normal family like mine. Up to a few years ago our 4 weeks or so was spent at Disney and we never left. We spent a 2 days at Uni 2 years ago and three last year. My wife has already said 3-4 days this year at Uni sounds good. They have eaten into our 28 days in Disney . Now times that by thousands of other families that mat be doing the same thing and bang, you have attendance rising.
If Disney wants us there more they need to build things like they did back in the 80's and 90's and make us not even think of leaving property. It's also nice to walk around without a band on your wrist.

 

[wdisney9000]

Anyone find it interesting that Yahoo is running a Disney World article today? Its titled "Pub-crawling through the Magic Kingdom". I guess Yahoo got a call from Zenia (or somebody at Disney) to write something new. If you ask me its a very misleading title as we all know MK is dry. The picture with the article has a split between MK and beer taps from Big River Grill? It actually tells you to pub-crawl on the monorail resorts then hit MK. I guess they figure if you get drunk enough you may actually think 7DMT is as fast the commercial makes it look.

Here is my favorite quote from the article and It makes no sense to me, maybe someone can explain what they mean: "If you haven’t already been to the Polynesian Resort, then you are in for a treat! Especially since it’s in the midst of a renovation." What, Huh?

 

[WildcatDen]

Everyone at Le Blog is very happy for Mr. Kilmer

I think we can all agree that Iceman was the main cause of Goose's death. To this day, I cannot watch a Val Kilmer movie.

There's two O's in Goose, boys!

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

Read the SEC filings.

I'm reading it now and so far there is nothing specifically about the Universal Orlando park detailing guest spending. Comcast theme parks are viewed as a whole entity. If this is considered proof Universal makes more money per guest its laughable.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm reading it now and so far there is nothing specifically about the Universal Orlando park detailing guest spending. Comcast theme parks are viewed as a whole entity. If this is considered proof Universal makes more money per guest its laughable.

Disney also combines numbers...

 

[Gabe1]

oh I agree with you but we cant dismiss attendance either..it means quite a bit....if my theme park has a million more people per year than yours im probably making quite a bit more money..again not disagreeing with you just think you cant dismiss those numbers either

Attendance is just one aspect of revenue though. I remember back a decade ago when I booked POFQ many months out. This Spring we booked 2 weeks out and the resort was more than half empty. Went to DTD, I lost that war, we did not see guests purchasing bags of wares, walk right up to any cash register unlike yesteryear of queues to pay. Disney's fault for their Disney Park's line where every shop duplicates the next with offerings. I wanted to replace an expensive resort specific windcoat, they've pretty much stopped resort specific wares. Everything is generic. Go to Uni and enter Harryland, note how many kids and adults are purchasing just the wands, a gold mine. ButterBeer too, amazing the people trying that out, I didn't see the volume sold of Disney's answer LeFou's brew. Uni transportation deposits their guests in the heart of it all where Disney guests waste time traveling about the 40 square miles all the while not spending. Dwarf and Fairtale Hall are quite popular but neither seem to that draw Disney hoped for of new or additional attendance or curing the weakening resort room occupancy.

Rather than comparison just on attendance or gross revenue I'd love to see the net on a percentile comparison. Soon we will see what impact Harry 2.0 has on increased attendance and Uni's resort occupancy along with consumable wares sold.

 

[WildcatDen]

...and once again the pixie dust snorters pull out the tired attendance number argument. So predictable. *sigh*

And what about those seasonal parks pulling in 3, 3.5, or even 4 million visitors in just 5 months or so. Impressive but what does it really say? BTW, Bacon Pancakes? Sounds Delicious.

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

Disney also combines numbers...

And has more parks which could dilute certain figures, like guest spending.

So in no uncertain terms there is really no way to tell where guests spend more in Florida. One would simply have to logically assume the park with the most guests wins? SEC filings be damned. I hope this puts to rest another silly unfounded crutch the Universal faithful desperately try to stand on. At least there is Potter.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And has more parks which could dilute certain figures, like guest spending.

So in no uncertain terms there is really no way to tell where guests spend more in Florida. One would simply have to logically assume the park with the most guests wins? SEC filings be damned. I hope this puts to rest another silly unfounded crutch the Universal faithful desperately try to stand on. At least there is Potter.

How are the numbers diluted when they are typically based on daily spending?

Is Walmart the best shopping experience? Is McDonald's the best dining experience? And to both their credit they've realized they need to be proactive regarding criticisms of their methods, despite still being king (biggest). Unlike Disney, they understand that fundamental shifts in patterns take time and waiting until they are #2 is only a good way to fall even further.

 

[CinematicFusion]

My opinion is competition is great for the fans. It's your money, spend it where you want to spend it.
Universal has an epic land in Potter. They did an excellent job in taking a risk and building out a huge themed world. It worked and fans have flocked in. Good for us, good for Universal and it's a great blue print for Disney to follow as they have with Avatar: Land of Pandora.

Comcast has now thrown down the gauntlet. You now must book a day at Universal if you are traveling to Florida...you would be crazy not to explore an amazingly themed area after spending so much money to get to Florida for a family vacation. You might never go back...why would you skip the latest and greatest in theme park entertainment. Heck, wear a Disney shirt if it makes you feel better.

It's like someone not wanting to see the big tent pole movie of the summer because it's distributed by a rival studio.

Don't worry Disney fans, hope is on the way and soon. (Soon for me is a 5 year window)
Disney has the ammunition to match the size and scope of Potter.

1.Star Wars has 4 movies in the top 20 all time domestic box office (adjusted for inflation)
It has 2 movies in the top 10 domestic of all time. World Wide box office wasn't that big a deal back in the 70's-80's.

2. Pirates of the Caribbean. Really surprised Disney hasn't stepped up and created a mini world around this ride turned franchise. 3 Movies in the top 22 of world wide grosses. (Harry Potter has 3 in the top 23)
Disney Should be building this somewhere in Orlando...(Animal Kingdom, DHS, MagicKingdom?)
Link: Pirates of the Caribbean: Battle of the Sunken Treasure ride, Treasure Cove land announced for Shanghai Disneyland

4. Marvel...can't be done in Orlando, but is a great idea for Disneyland.
5. Frozen...and all other Pixar/ recent Disney animated films. There is enough material to make a second animated land in DHS. Incredibles, Monster Inc., Frozen, Tangled. You get the idea.

6. Indiana Jones. How is he not in the Orlando area in the way of an d/e ticket style ride?

Disney has tons of material to make amazing areas themed to your favorite films. Truly remarkable they haven't been on their toes doing this.
That is until now. I do believe Disney is back in the saddle and being more creative with their theme park ideas. I have said I like what they have done with New Fantasyland. We are in for a treat with Avatar...you will love it. Trust me, and the night show will be fantastic at AK. Star Wars, have no idea what is on the table but I'm sure Disney wants to make this the Jewel of DHS. I believe we will be happy at Disney in 2020. Unreal...but that isn't that far away.

I believe without Universal getting Potter's rights in 2007. Disney isn't buying Marvel in 2009, isn't buying Lucasfilm, isn't creating Avatar in AK. Disney's hand has been forced. They have to start building bigger and better now. They will.

We the fans are in for a real treat in the coming years. Fun lands are going to be created for us to explore. So instead of going again to DHS after your Magic Kingdom visit. Stop by Universal for some new state of the art entertainment, again, where your Disney shirt if you have to. You have seen what's at DHS, you haven't seen what's at Universal.
We are in it for the latest and greatest rides, the thrill of something new. There isn't anything new at DHS. It's your money, go where you please but I'd rather explore the New Potter then ride Tower of Terror for the 22nd time.

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

How are the numbers diluted when they are typically based on daily spending

Maybe because they are combined. If a person spends a hundred dollars at WDW and another person spends twenty five in Paris that would equate to an average of sixty dollars a day combined guest spending. Pretty simple math. Everything else you posted is nothing more than nonsensical grandstanding.

Sorry your Universal has higher guests spending argument has been shot to hell, if it makes you feel better ill let you win the internet for the day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Maybe because they are combined. If a person spends a hundred dollars at WDW and another person spends twenty five in Paris that would equate to an average of sixty dollars a day combined guest spending. Pretty simple math. Everything else you posted is nothing more than nonsensical grandstanding.

Sorry your Universal has higher guests spending argument has been shot to hell, if it makes you feel better ill let you win the internet for the day.

Disney combines the Disneyland Resort and Walt Disney World. Universal combines Universal Studios Hollywood and Universal Orlando Resort. The international Resorts are not wholly owned by their name sakes.

 

[Bairstow]

If you're looking at this as Disney vs Universal, you aren't seeing the entire picture. This is now Disney vs ORLANDO.

The worry isn't losing WDW vacationers to Universal resorts, the fact is Uni upgrading their parks means that people now have options. Before Potter 1.0, Disney was pretty much a monopoly. There were the Uni parks and Sea World but I don't think vacationers really saw them as anything but a little side note. Now, the Uni parks are as good (if not better) than what Disney is offering.

There was a news report about I-Drive now becoming its own HUGE amusement park. In the next couple of years, I-Drive will have the Orlando Eye and Poler Coaster (the tallest coaster in the world) and will be even larger competition.

If you're planning a family vacation, would you spend $250+ a night to go to a Disney resort and visit the WDW parks or would you spend $150 a night and see all Orlando has to offer (WDW, Uni, Sea World, I-Drive)?

The only thing missing now are the really outstanding, reasonably priced family resorts off-property. There is Nickelodeon, Gaylord Palms and Coquina Key now but soon there will be many, many more. Once that happens WDW will be really, really hurt.

TDO had better enjoy the days of getting premium dollars for their resorts. If they don't step up the expansions (like Star Wars) in a big and bold way, those days will son be over for good.

We'll see.
At present there still is not enough to do in Orlando to occupy the average vacationing family for 5-6 days without spending time at Disney. While the Potter expansion to IOA certainly boosted their numbers, Disney's attendance rose during the same period, albeit at a much slower rate. In fact, Epcot and the Magic Kingdom's attendance rose about the same as IOA did since Potter opened, not proportionally, but in terms of total head. Sea World's attendance, meanwhile, has actually been dropping steadily since Potter opened, despite building several very nice new attractions. Now either that means that everyone has seen and is disgusted by Blackfish, or the Disney vs. Orlando turnaround you see coming just isn't happening.

Given that they're both going to be fairly limited, standalone attractions that can be done in an evening, I'll be surprised if the Eye and Skyscraper have a significant impact.
Can't wait to ride them, though.

I maintain my point- until Universal has enough offerings to present a complete alternative to Disney World, and not just enough to qualify as a 1-2 day diversion in a week-long vacation, their relationship to Disney World will continue to be mostly mutually beneficial.

The only real place Disney is getting stung by Universal is in merchandise dollars.

 

[Captain Chaos]

And a new member has reached the ignore status... Am i the only one who thinks Thick is posting here again under a new "crafty" handle? Same arguments, almost word for word.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Disneyland Resort has over 100 attractions if you add in DCA... IOA and USF are great but they still have a quite a bit to add in terms of attractions.

I understand that, my point was that just because it doesn't take as long to see, doesn't mean it is less than.
Disney World may have 4 parks and 2 water parks vs Disneyland or Universal Orlando, but they are still great parks.
Bigger doesn't mean better always.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

And a new member has reached the ignore status... Am i the only one who thinks Thick is posting here again under a new "crafty" handle? Same arguments, almost word for word.

I thought so too

 

[wdisney9000]

Sorry your Universal has higher guests spending argument has been shot to hell, if it makes you feel better ill let you win the internet for the day.

Id have to disagree and just going by what is offered as far as merchandise will put Uni ahead. They have UNIQUE items for sale and there are plenty of them. My nephew recently returned from Uni from a school band trip and he spent ALL the money his father gave him at the shops in Hogsmeade. (ya, they also went to WDW) I got a call from my sister this morning and she is a 1000% pixie duster and she was asking me to call my friend who work for Loews to book a room for next month and her 2 boys want to buy wands and the candy and all the different drinks. She scoffed at the idea of visiting Uni when I brought it up a year ago. She watched the videos yesterday of DA and her July trip to WDW has now turned into a Uni exclusive trip.

Ya, these arent calculated numbers or anything, but a lot of families will be doing this and guest spending is gonna go through the roof at Uni. Heck, Im a grown man and I cant wait to start a wand collection of my own. Universal came up with brilliant ideas in offering unique merch and the people are gonna EAT IT UP! I try so hard to find cool stuff to buy at Disney. Outside of the Olszewski Gallery of light stuff and some Lenox figurines (wifey loves these) theres not much. Is it so hard to make a Yacht Club hoodie or light jacket so I can proudly display my love for it at home?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7p-4ErE749Z6pQtbQ&sig2=L_HJY7AhJiuy__KVLuHHVg