Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

[twebber55]

So the amount of people who pay to get in the place doesn't matter, just food and beverage sale?

yeah I agree they do matter

 

[Ignohippo]

Well again, until Universal chooses to build/buy enough parks to become its own 4-5 day destination complex, I don't think that the market share they take from Disney will outweigh the increase in overall Orlando tourism that Potter generates- an increase that Disney is probably benefiting from.

Unless they have some really clever tricks up their sleeve with the Wet n' Wild property, or unless they form a much stronger alliance with Sea World, I don't see Universal being able to do that anytime soon.

If you're looking at this as Disney vs Universal, you aren't seeing the entire picture. This is now Disney vs ORLANDO.

The worry isn't losing WDW vacationers to Universal resorts, the fact is Uni upgrading their parks means that people now have options. Before Potter 1.0, Disney was pretty much a monopoly. There were the Uni parks and Sea World but I don't think vacationers really saw them as anything but a little side note. Now, the Uni parks are as good (if not better) than what Disney is offering.

There was a news report about I-Drive now becoming its own HUGE amusement park. In the next couple of years, I-Drive will have the Orlando Eye and Poler Coaster (the tallest coaster in the world) and will be even larger competition.

If you're planning a family vacation, would you spend $250+ a night to go to a Disney resort and visit the WDW parks or would you spend $150 a night and see all Orlando has to offer (WDW, Uni, Sea World, I-Drive)?

The only thing missing now are the really outstanding, reasonably priced family resorts off-property. There is Nickelodeon, Gaylord Palms and Coquina Key now but soon there will be many, many more. Once that happens WDW will be really, really hurt.

TDO had better enjoy the days of getting premium dollars for their resorts. If they don't step up the expansions (like Star Wars) in a big and bold way, those days will son be over for good.

 

[GLaDOS]

So the amount of people who pay to get in the place doesn't matter, just food and beverage sale?

They matter, but matter a whole lot less than people here would like to believe. Merch, food, beverage, and hotel stays are where the real money is made.

 

[twebber55]

They matter, but matter a whole lot less than people here would like to believe. Merch, food, beverage, and hotel stays are where the real money is made.

but you have to have those people to get the rest right?

 

[flynnibus]

But they are still attracting less than half as many people as WDW's Magic Kingdom, and the fact that Uni is now doing better business now that they have these new attractions, doesn't mean Disney screwed up, it means that after nearly 20 years is Uni finally getting their act together

Germany will never be a larger economy than the United States... but that doesn't mean it's can't be healthier and give better returns.

Just because you aren't the biggest, doesn't make you less successful or less profitable.

The only people who care about 'who has the highest TEA numbers' are fanboys trying to cheer for their park. The real moxie is in guest spending and utilization.

 

[GLaDOS]

Germany will never be a larger economy than the United States... but that doesn't mean it's can't be healthier and give better returns.

Just because you aren't the biggest, doesn't make you less successful or less profitable.

The only people who care about 'who has the highest TEA numbers' are fanboys trying to cheer for their park. The real moxie is in guest spending and utilization.

Very well said.

 

[flynnibus]

but you have to have those people to get the rest right?

But the relationship does not work equally both ways. Your effectiveness is not how many people you stuff in (because supporting more people is more costly too) but in how you convert those people into revenue.

 

[BaconPancakes]

...and once again the pixie dust snorters pull out the tired attendance number argument. So predictable. *sigh*

 

[lazyboy97o]

But they are still attracting less than half as many people as WDW's Magic Kingdom, and the fact that Uni is now doing better business now that they have these new attractions, doesn't mean Disney screwed up, it means that after nearly 20 years is Uni finally getting their act together

It does when you consider Disney was convinced that guests did not have the disposable income to spend more once inside the parks and that the Orlando market was as big as it could get. So yes, the success of Universal Orlando Resort does show Walt Disney World screwed up because they believed that what happened was impossible and abandoned the path they pioneered.

So the amount of people who pay to get in the place doesn't matter, just food and beverage sale?

Strong guest spending can overcome a lot.

 

[flynnibus]

But they are still attracting less than half as many people as WDW's Magic Kingdom, and the fact that Uni is now doing better business now that they have these new attractions, doesn't mean Disney screwed up, it means that after nearly 20 years is Uni finally getting their act together

Evaluating Disney's screw up is not gauged by UNI's position. Disney's screw up is gauged by Disney's ineffectiveness in identifying market opportunities that have proven fruitful by other people.

Will people never learn?

 

[twebber55]

But the relationship does not work equally both ways. Your effectiveness is not how many people you stuff in (because supporting more people is more costly too) but in how you convert those people into revenue.

oh I agree with you but we cant dismiss attendance either..it means quite a bit....if my theme park has a million more people per year than yours im probably making quite a bit more money..again not disagreeing with you just think you cant dismiss those numbers either

 

[twebber55]

my question is what is the total revenue of Orlando parks and whats the breakdown at each resort...Disney carries (im guessing) 75-80% of the attendance how much do they carry the revenue?

 

[lazyboy97o]

oh I agree with you but we cant dismiss attendance either..it means quite a bit....if my theme park has a million more people per year than yours im probably making quite a bit more money..again not disagreeing with you just think you cant dismiss those numbers either

That is not necessarily true. Fewer people spending more can match or out spend more people spending less.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

If you're only staying 2 nights at cabana bay it doesn't sound like they have much either

I never understood this idea that just because it takes less time to see Uni than WDW, than WDW is somehow greater.
3days/2nights is about all that is needed to see Uni but than again it doesn't take much longer to see Disneyland either and people still consider Disneyland better than WDW.

 

[twebber55]

That is not necessarily true. Fewer people spending more can match or out spend more people spending less.

I agree but I like my chances...you still have to provide quality food,bev,and merch

 

[GLaDOS]

That is not necessarily true. Fewer people spending more can match or out spend more people spending less.

Not to mention more people at the park require more staff to serve them. I'd imagine MK's oeprational costs far exceed USF or IoA's.

Not saying Mk isn't more profitable than IoA or USF, but attendance -> profit is not a 1:1 comparison

 

[lazyboy97o]

I never understood this idea that just because it takes less time to see Uni than WDW, than WDW is somehow greater.
3days/2nights is about all that is needed to see Uni but than again it doesn't take much longer to see Disneyland either and people still consider Disneyland better than WDW.

It's the same fallacy that has people believing that the four parks at Walt Disney World offer far more than the two at the Disneyland Resort.

I agree but I like my chances...you still have to provide quality food,bev,and merch

Given the explosion is sales beyond what people supposedly had to spend, I think Universal Orlando Resort is doing just fine with those.

 

[twebber55]

It's the same fallacy that has people believing that the four parks at Walt Disney World offer far more than the two at the Disneyland Resort.


Given the explosion is sales beyond what people supposedly had to spend, I think Universal Orlando Resort is doing just fine with those.

definitely

 

[lebeau]

I never understood this idea that just because it takes less time to see Uni than WDW, than WDW is somehow greater.
3days/2nights is about all that is needed to see Uni but than again it doesn't take much longer to see Disneyland either and people still consider Disneyland better than WDW.

Totally agree. The fact that Universal has fewer obstacles than Disney is a selling point for Universal in my book.

 

[flynnibus]

oh I agree with you but we cant dismiss attendance either..it means quite a bit....if my theme park has a million more people per year than yours im probably making quite a bit more money..again not disagreeing with you just think you cant dismiss those numbers either

It's not about dismissing.. it's about misuse.

It's about this stupid mindset that 'I have more people so I'm better than you!' or 'you will never be good because you don't have as many as me!'

Who is better off? The guy with 100k making 0.5% on the dollar or the guy making 5% off 20k?

Attendance is a scaler - it is not a measure of health or efficiency. It is not a measure of success. It is a requirement to have, it's something you try to increase because it is a scaler for your conversion rates.. but taken in absolutes it does not tell you much.

If someone wants to talk about the business and it's success.. you need to look at thing as it matters to the business... not stupid fanboy trophies.