Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

[mahnamahna101]

Disney pricing takes a drop once you hit 4 day tickets... so your point?
My most recent trip, we did all of MK except Pooh, Peter Pan, and Astro Orbiter and ate dinner in BOG in 6 hours w/o rushing, watch the daytime castle show, seen FOF, had time to find a seat for the parade, and using FP+ If we had stopped for character M&G it may have pushed us to one full day.
Epcot is half day rides, half day walking around stores.

Are you sure you did EVERYTHING?

Not just the headliners/rides but stuff like Hall of Presidents, Tiki Room, Country Bears, Carousel of Progress, etc too?

MK is definitely full day if you do every attraction, as are IOA and USF if you do more than just the E tickets.

Epcot is a 2/3 day park - say, show up at 1 or 2 then stay until close.

DHS is half day as is AK.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

If we're contemplating what the average family is actually going to buy, you can't compare apples to apples.

I doubt very seriously that many families will be buying 2-day hoppers to Universal AND 2-day hoppers to Disney. Most people would either spend more than 2 days at Disney or forgo the hopper option, since the two most popular Disney parks are all-day+ parks and there's no awesome E-ticket park-to-park experience that requires you to buy a hopper ticket.

A more likely scenario would be 2-day hoppers to Universal (really, this is what the vast majority of guests will buy) and 3-5 day base tickets to Disney, possibly with the hopper or water park option on the far end of the scale.

My point is that for most of the likely buying scenarios for the average family making a 5-6 day Orlando vacation that includes both Universal and Disney (and possibly Sea World) their tickets for Universal/IOA will most likely wind up being their most expensive tickets per-day.

Ok, I'll give you that. But in reality, whether it was Disney or Universal... the longer you stay the less you pay.

 

[Bairstow]

Universal's pricing is the same for all tickets beyond 2 days.. +$10/day

They have two full parks... discounting the second day to trivial cost would be leaving money on the table. They know most people would entertain one park per day, so the other days are teasers to extend their stay beyond 2 days.

I expect this to change before too long.. the resort will easily be able to justify longer than 2 days. They might leave the tickets cheap tho as a loss-leader for the hotels.

...especially with the Express Pass still being offered as a perk.

 

[GLaDOS]

Noted and adjusted with King Kong. Yeah..Universal is busy building. Very impressive.

There will be a lot more to add to that Uni list as we move forward through the next few months/year. Just waiting on other entities to give the go ahead for announcements

 

[mahnamahna101]

So, again how has DA affected Uni prices? Once you hit multiple days they come out cheaper per day than most popular parks in Orlando.
Have you been to Universal before?
I'd actually say the opposite, IOA could easily been done in a 1/2 day while USF takes a full day for us. IOA only has two coasters anyway.

If you do just the headliners, yeah. Camp Jurassic, Poseidon, Sinbad, If I Ran the Zoo, the kiddie rides at Seuss, Discovery Center, Storm Force, Hippogriff, Ollivander's, walking around the shops, M&Gs, Mythos, Mystic Fountain, in additions to the 10 major attractions (11 once Kong opens) and the future nighttime show... easy to spend all day at IOA.

 

[flynnibus]

My point is that for most of the likely buying scenarios for the average family making a 5-6 day Orlando vacation that includes both Universal and Disney (and possibly Sea World) their tickets for Universal/IOA will most likely wind up being their most expensive tickets per-day.

Yes, but it's a generally pointless thing to hang your hat on because everyone knows you are doing less days... and dividing anything by a smaller number makes the result bigger.

What people will really have to face is numbers like this (fictitious numbers because the actuals are not relevant to the point)

3 days at Disney = $1000
5 days at Disney = $1100

3 days at Disney + 2 at Uni = $1500

Having to face that splitting their vacation significantly increases the cost of it. This is the lock-in premise of the MYW pricing model and the biggest hurdle non-Disney entertainment faces.

It's not the per day math that will cause people to steer their total vacations.. It's the impact on their big ticket item budgeting. Hotels+tickets+transportation. Boosting that bottom line number and accepting it is the challenge UNI and others must convince guests to do.

It's all about perception and where they see the impact.

 

[mahnamahna101]

There will be a lot more to add to that Uni list as we move forward through the next few months/year. Just waiting on other entities to give the go ahead for announcements

Definitely hoping the focus shifts to IOA after this year!! JP, Seuss, Toon and LC could also use some love. KidZone and the mystery plot are the only two major things I see coming to USF from now until 2021.

 

[Bairstow]

Definitely hoping the focus shifts to IOA after this year!! JP, Seuss, Toon and LC could also use some love. KidZone and the mystery plot are the only two major things I see coming to USF from now until 2021.

When you say "mystery plot" do you mean the one were the Triceratops paddock was?

 

[dadddio]

The numbers that matter are the revenues - not the gate clicks. Clicks are scalers, not indicators of conversion or margins. That's the discussion. Catch up or get off the bus.

Actually, if we were wanting to compare the two companies, what would matter is profits, not revenues. If we wanting to make such a comparison, this distinction would be important because Universal apparently pays more for the use of IPs than Disney does.

That being said, I think that these comparisons are mostly useless. As a park visitor, I couldn't care less who has a greater increase in revenues or profits or room/nights or visitors. The big thing I care about is if the park is going to be fun for my family.

 

[flynnibus]

...especially with the Express Pass still being offered as a perk.

As it should be for the way they've implemented it.

You can say EMH causes the same kind of grief... having to pay the Disney tax to get it.

Either way I acknowledge them for what they are... huge incentives to stay in their hotels. And for my family, paying for the UNI hotel is almost always worth the perk, Pay about $120 premium and get express pass for 5 people for 2 days. That's $12/per day per person. Easy choice.

 

[CinematicFusion]

There will be a lot more to add to that Uni list as we move forward through the next few months/year. Just waiting on other entities to give the go ahead for announcements

Impressive for Universal. Stats speak for themselves plus more to come. Very impressive. Not so much for Disney. Can't wait to hear what new rides are coming to Universal. Maybe someday we will hear the new designs at Disney.

1.The Disney's New Rides for their 4 parks are:
6 rides in 12 years (2 e-tickets)
2006: Expedition Everest. Solid E-ticket Great Ride
2008: Toy Story Mania
2012: New Fantasyland: Little Mermaid opens
2014: Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.
2017: Avatar:World of Pandora Opens. (2 rides)


2.Universal's rides from 08-2015:
Universal 7 rides in 8 years (4 e-tickets)
2008: Simpsons Ride
2010: Harry Potter Forbidden Journey
2012: Despicable me minion mayhem
2012: Transformers
2014: Gringotts Ride
2014: Harry Potter Train ride
2015: King Kong

 

[vinnya1726]

Oh my, we're bad. We like both Universal and Disney, but for entirely different reasons. They are entirely different parks, basically appealing to different demographics. It's like trying to compare the proverbial apples and oranges.

We do spend more time at Disney as there is more to see and do.

This is exactly it... Disney and Universal can exist together. They are geared toward different groups...but some on here would like to turn Disney into Universal and eliminate all the family friend stuff and bring in more roller coasters, more thrill rides and forget the family focus. Give Universal props for changing their strategy and being more immersive and raising the bar no doubt...but they can both live and serve different groups without it becoming Disney is terrible...Universal is terrible they are both good.

 

[Bairstow]

As it should be for the way they've implemented it.

You can say EMH causes the same kind of grief... having to pay the Disney tax to get it.

Either way I acknowledge them for what they are... huge incentives to stay in their hotels. And for my family, paying for the UNI hotel is almost always worth the perk, Pay about $120 premium and get express pass for 5 people for 2 days. That's $12/per day per person. Easy choice.

I don't mind it as a resort perk either but I hate the whole principle of pay-to-jump queue-skipping services.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't mind it as a resort perk either but I hate the whole principle of pay-to-jump queue-skipping services.

Well if everyone could jump the line.. then no one is actually getting to jump the line. Be it limited use, pay for use, or whatever... it can't be free and unlimited. Something people just need to come to terms with.

I applaud them for the dynamic pricing too.. something Disney should have done with their theme park tickets instead of their FOOD prices. Which I think is a compromise since trying to make their complicated ticket promises work with dynamic pricing would be difficult.

 

[flynnibus]

Actually, if we were wanting to compare the two companies, what would matter is profits, not revenues

I was trying to keep it simple for the challenged Money.. not gate clicks is what matters

 

[Ignohippo]

We'll see.
At present there still is not enough to do in Orlando to occupy the average vacationing family for 5-6 days without spending time at Disney. While the Potter expansion to IOA certainly boosted their numbers, Disney's attendance rose during the same period, albeit at a much slower rate. In fact, Epcot and the Magic Kingdom's attendance rose about the same as IOA did since Potter opened, not proportionally, but in terms of total head. Sea World's attendance, meanwhile, has actually been dropping steadily since Potter opened, despite building several very nice new attractions. Now either that means that everyone has seen and is disgusted by Blackfish, or the Disney vs. Orlando turnaround you see coming just isn't happening.

Given that they're both going to be fairly limited, standalone attractions that can be done in an evening, I'll be surprised if the Eye and Skyscraper have a significant impact.
Can't wait to ride them, though.

I maintain my point- until Universal has enough offerings to present a complete alternative to Disney World, and not just enough to qualify as a 1-2 day diversion in a week-long vacation, their relationship to Disney World will continue to be mostly mutually beneficial.

The only real place Disney is getting stung by Universal is in merchandise dollars.

No one is saying people wouldn't spend time at Disney. However, instead of spending 5-7 days at the WDW resorts (and all of that time at the parks), people will soon be spending 2-3 days at Disney and staying off-site for their entire trip.

That absolutely decimates Disney's revenue opportunities. You're now looking at Disney making maybe 10% of what they are now for the average family vacation. Ouch.

 

[flynnibus]

Impressive for Universal. Stats speak for themselves plus more to come. Very impressive. Not so much for Disney. Can't wait to hear what new rides are coming to Universal. Maybe someday we will hear the new designs at Disney.

If you were to put Simpsons in there.. you gotta put Star Tours in there too.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Are you sure you did EVERYTHING?

Not just the headliners/rides but stuff like Hall of Presidents, Tiki Room, Country Bears, Carousel of Progress, etc too?

MK is definitely full day if you do every attraction, as are IOA and USF if you do more than just the E tickets.

Epcot is a 2/3 day park - say, show up at 1 or 2 then stay until close.

DHS is half day as is AK.

I said, not everything. Only arrived around 2:00ish. We skipped Pooh, Peter Pan, Astro Orbiter, and we also skipped Jungle Cruise, riverboat, COP, and Tom Sawyer Island. (sorry forgot about those ones) We missed ETWB too because we didn't have enough people and we had a space fp+ so we got out of line. We did do BTMRR twice & TTA 4 times.
I actually got to do HOP for the first time that day, it actually almost made me cry! My DFi slept through it! Can you believe him?!?!

 

[TubaGeek]

Impressive for Universal. Stats speak for themselves plus more to come. Very impressive. Not so much for Disney. Can't wait to hear what new rides are coming to Universal. Maybe someday we will hear the new designs at Disney.

1.The Disney's New Rides for their 4 parks are:
6 rides in 12 years (2 e-tickets)
2006: Expedition Everest. Solid E-ticket Great Ride
2008: Toy Story Mania
2012: New Fantasyland: Little Mermaid opens
2014: Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.
2017: Avatar:World of Pandora Opens. (2 rides)


2.Universal's rides from 08-2015:
Universal 7 rides in 8 years (4 e-tickets)
2008: Simpsons Ride
2010: Harry Potter Forbidden Journey
2012: Despicable me minion mayhem
2012: Transformers
2014: Gringotts Ride
2014: Harry Potter Train ride
2015: King Kong

I know it's not major, but don't forget Twirl-n-Hurl!

 

[seascape]

Actually, if we were wanting to compare the two companies, what would matter is profits, not revenues. If we wanting to make such a comparison, this distinction would be important because Universal apparently pays more for the use of IPs than Disney does.

That being said, I think that these comparisons are mostly useless. As a park visitor, I couldn't care less who has a greater increase in revenues or profits or room/nights or visitors. The big thing I care about is if the park is going to be fun for my family.

I agree the most important thing is the enjoyment you get from the parks. The customer does come first and if the company treats you well they will make money. In the recent years Universal has improved more than Disney but I still love Walt Disney World and they give me what I want. I know others care more about the rides, I like the shows and other entertainment at Disney. Universal has nothing to compare with Food & Wine and Flower & Garden. I also love Christmas and those are my three trips a year to Orlando. I can see spending a couple of days at USF and I am sure Comcast will be more than happy to take my money but I never see it being a major part of my Orlando Vacations unless they offer what my wife and I really want. On the other hand I do care about Orlando and what is best for Orlando is that all the parks do well and that all the hotel and timeshares attract millions of paying customers every year.