Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

[WildcatDen]

That's fair -- UNI does have room for improvement, but it's also far and away a better value than WDW at the moment.

My UNI AP was around $200 -- that's crazy, considering the new attractions, discounts, entertainment offerings...

How much would a WDW AP be if Disney had Hogsmeade, Diagon Alley, Transformers, Spidey, etc? If they overprice their APs with a stale slate of attractions, I'd hate to see what they'd charge for genuine, cutting-edge entertainment.

OK, have to mention it, what should my King's Island AP cost with The Beast, Flight of Fear, Diamondback, The Bat, Stunt Coaster, Firehawk, The Racer, Adventure Express, Delerium, Face-off, Drop Zone, and that new little coaster, Banshee. Oh, and the Gold Ticket winner for Best Kids Area for the past upteen years. Kick in Skyline and Greaters and you have to be charging $200, $300, $400 or more??? Nope, try $90. Now there is a value!

 

[BaconPancakes]

Stop posting

Best post in this thread yet.

 

[FutureCEO]

Disney is not freaking about Potter because people are still coming. A Universal park is not about to gain 10 million visitors a year and surpass the Magic Kingdom in attendance. Universal has a shot overtaking the other parks but not the Magic Kingdom.

Disney biggest mistake, I think, is not building rides the right way and fast enough. When Disney is building a tens of millions dollar ride, they cut here and there until the ride is not as brilliant as it was going to be. And they leave the ride up to 20 years, not changing it.

 

[WildcatDen]

being surgically attached to an iPhone your entire time there

Of course, that is a realistic picture of the 14 to 30 crowd now a days.

 

[twebber55]

to me the best way to look at this is....Disney has a wider margin of error than universal and them missing out on Potter doesn't mean anything other than they lost out on an opportunity to make a ton of cash...universal had to nail it and they did

 

[prberk]

What I don't get is why it has to be one park or the other? Whats wrong with liking both? Have people truly been brainwashed with that whole "either youre with us or against us" BS?

Disney does a good job with some things.... slipped a lot with things they used to do right but they can still turn it around if they want.

Universal is finally done playing catchup from those dark times when they were under Blackstone and is a major player in the market. They're doing a great job with thrills and continue to put out the best Halloween show in town. Their guest service is lacking still but this new DA expansion takes Uni to an entirely new level.

And parking sucks at both parks.

When Walt Disney World first opened they actually refrained from opening too many hotels, out of deference to the community around them. They wanted to be good neighbors. That changed with Eisner, who started the hotel boomlet of the early '90s by Disney. (In Southern California you can still get a big Southern California combo ticket that includes both Disney and Universal.)

I do think that there is something to be said about being a good neighbor. I have always thought that Disney would do well to include, say, fresh Florida oranges in its souvenir stores and restaurants.

There is nothing wrong with WDW being a complete resort (as it should be, and be the best, as I stated above) that can be your whole vacation experience. I have done that often. But I also do not think it would hurt them to be a part of the community a little more.

I will never forget the sense of Disney's goodwill that I felt that year with all the Florida fires that were out of control from drought. I was at WDW for Independence Day. The governor had implemented a statewide ban on fireworks due to all of the fires that were out of control and the drought. Disney and Universal were both said to be exempt, I suppose due to the waters around and the control elements that they had in place. Disney was wetting down the public areas of the entire resort while we were there, even though some days you could smell the smoke of the fires near 95 and Daytona and other areas. Disney decided (as did Universal) that, although they were exempt (and could probably bring in crazy money as the only fireworks games around), they would NOT have fireworks for Independence Day that year. [EPCOT did their show without fireworks, but with lasers and the other elements. MK simply canceled the fireworks.] I thought it was grand gesture, and the right thing to do, showing solidarity with the community. Now, did the governor's office ask them to; or did they consult with Universal and maybe come to an agreement? Who knows? But either way I think it was ultimately a nice gesture to the community; and it played that way in the media.

I have felt the same way when news has said that Disney offered beds or mattresses to those in need following hurricanes.
My point is that competition is great, and it yields new things and advancements; but sometimes it can be better set aside. And it does not always have to be during a disaster.

 

[Nubs70]

If WDW had been in the business of making world class themed environments, never mind developing itself into a vast uniformally functioning vacation resort, nobody would've talked about Potter having ended up at the competition. Who misses Potter at DisneySea?

There are a lot of great IP's, Disney didn't drop the ball by missing out on one. Even if it is one of the very best. It dropped the ball elsewhere. Sadly, the lesson Disney seems to have drawn from Potter is that theme parks consist of 'a collection of IP environments'. We might end up with Avatarland in DAK, Star Wars Land in DHS and Frozen Land in EPCOT.

The bold portion is precisely the problem with WDW with the exception of Avatar. Even Avatar is a reactionary response. It would be much better if WDW could say that "Yes UNI is building Potter, but we are building STAR Wars, and this, and that."

 

[twebber55]

to me the whole idea of a potter swatter is fan boy driven... there is no such thing potter will be popular at Universal for a very long time....good news for Disney is they do invest in the parks like avatar at DAK, Star Wars at DHS etc it wont matter

 

[Nubs70]

All theme parks, even WDW, survive on frequent updates to their offerings. Nostalgia carries you only so far.

The problem with today's corporate Disney is that failure to invest properly in WDW has hurt company profitability.

Back in WDW's glory days, Disney used to invest ~25% of Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue back into the product. As a result of that investment, margins typically were in the 18%-24% range. Disney invested a lot of money and made a lot of money in return.

Last year, Disney's P&R investments were down to 15% while margins were under 16%, lower than at any point during WDW's first 30 years of operation.

P&R used to be money-in-the-bank for Disney. Now, P&R's margins are actually lower than the rest of the company. WDW is dragging the company down.

Meanwhile, last year Universal invested 26% of its Theme Parks segment revenue back into its parks. Their margin was over 31%. Universal Orlando pulled Comcast's earnings up.

The old adage "It takes money to make money" is true.

Disney needs to invest intelligently in WDW in order to see the strong returns it once did, in order to see the strong returns Universal is experiencing today.

Instead, Disney spent more than $7B over the last two years buying back company stock. Besides helping boost the stock price so executives can collect bigger bonuses & exercise their stock options, buying stock that's already trading at a PE ratio of 21 isn't a particularly good idea.

Disney has money available to invest in WDW right now. They simply choose not to because it's not in the best interest of their senior executive management.

Things will change. Disney will invest in WDW once again, sooner rather than later. But the low rate of investment over the last 10 years or so really hurt the profitability of WDW.

So they have let P&R slip a quadrant in the Balanced Scorecard. P&R was a high investment/high return entity. It is now low investment/moderate return. If investment continues to falter, P&R will fall further into a low investment/low return entity. Then the only way to return to former glory is heavy investment which will lead to a prolonged period of high investment/low return. Wall Street hates this type of business and the stock will plummet.

The current operating strategy of P&R is doing long term damage to WDW.

 

[BaconPancakes]

Sadly the FLE could have rivaled Daigon Alley, but Disney once again chose to cut every corner to satisfy the shareholders. I don't feel one bit sorry for them. My next trip will be solely to Uni and I couldn't be happier.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Disney is not freaking about Potter because people are still coming. A Universal park is not about to gain 10 million visitors a year and surpass the Magic Kingdom in attendance. Universal has a shot overtaking the other parks but not the Magic Kingdom.

Disney biggest mistake, I think, is not building rides the right way and fast enough. When Disney is building a tens of millions dollar ride, they cut here and there until the ride is not as brilliant as it was going to be. And they leave the ride up to 20 years, not changing it.

By 2017/2018, both Universal parks will easily have touched 10 million guests a year each and then some. With how much they're adding, an astronomical increase is in order

 

[Disneydreamer23]

H P is definitely better fit at Universal !

 

[Communicore]

As often repeated in these forums, for as long as people go to Disney they won't do anything. And I doubt people will stop going.

 

[twebber55]

H P is definitely better fit at Universal !

Universal had to nail HP so they went all out and im glad they got the deal with JK Rowling...we all won when that happened

 

[Tim Lohr]

HAHA, Ok I guess people who can't count post goofy pictures on the internet

Theme Park attendance in Orlando for 2013

1. Magic Kingdom -- 18,588,000
2. Epcot -- 11,229,000
3. Animal Kingdom -- 10,198,000
4. Disney's Hollywood Studios -- 10,110,000
5. Islands of Adventure -- 8,514,000

Math! it's awesome

 

[lebeau]

HAHA, Ok I guess people who can't count post goofy pictures on the internet

Theme Park attendance in Orlando for 2013

1. Magic Kingdom -- 18,588,000
2. Epcot -- 11,229,000
3. Animal Kingdom -- 10,198,000
4. Disney's Hollywood Studios -- 10,110,000
5. Islands of Adventure -- 8,514,000

Math! it's awesome

I'm not sure why you think that supports your original point, but yay math.

 

[twebber55]

it will be interesting what those numbers look like after DA has a full year under its belt...who would have thought 5 years ago we would be discussing Universal with two parks reaching 10 million

 

[Tim Lohr]

I'm still not convinced that Disney passed on Rowling, but more Rowling passing on Disney.


The changes in the Orlando market have proven that Universal Orlando Resort is not dependent on Walt Disney World for visitation. They can and are attracting more and more who are not going to Walt Disney World. That is a huge shift Disney wrong believed could never happen.

I'm still not convinced that Disney passed on Rowling, but more Rowling passing on Disney.


The changes in the Orlando market have proven that Universal Orlando Resort is not dependent on Walt Disney World for visitation. They can and are attracting more and more who are not going to Walt Disney World. That is a huge shift Disney wrong believed could never happen.

But they are still attracting less than half as many people as WDW's Magic Kingdom, and the fact that Uni is now doing better business now that they have these new attractions, doesn't mean Disney screwed up, it means that after nearly 20 years is Uni finally getting their act together

 

[GLaDOS]

But they are still attracting less than half as many people as WDW's Magic Kingdom, and the fact that Uni is now doing better business now that they have these new attractions, doesn't mean Disney screwed up, it means that after nearly 20 years is Uni finally getting their act together

I've said this many times, but theme park fans focus far too much on attendance numbers. They mean little in the grand scheme of things. Universal's parks literally could not physically hold the number of guests the MK does. Comparing MK numbers to USF or IoA numbers is like comparing how much a blue whale could eat to how much a shark could eat.

HP is an unprecedented merchandise/food and beverage seller in the theme park world. Nothing has ever generated money like it has.

 

[Tim Lohr]

I've said this many times, but theme park fans focus far too much on attendance numbers. They mean little in the grand scheme of things. Universal's parks literally could not physically hold the number of guests the MK does. Comparing MK numbers to USF or IoA numbers is like comparing how much a blue whale could eat to how much a shark could eat.

HP is an unprecedented merchandise/food and beverage seller in the theme park world. Nothing has ever generated money like it has.

So the amount of people who pay to get in the place doesn't matter, just food and beverage sale?