News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[Jrb1979]

Yes, it's actually been a reasonably good investment cycle for DCL. I think I'm just one of the few people who is not against them keeping that pacing up. Especially when their competitors are launching ships with double the occupancy annually.

I also think DCL is over-priced and fortunately, because it is so, has room to discount and still do very well for themselves. A 12-15 ship fleet at a 50% premium over the industry is better than a 7 vessel fleet at a 100% mark up. DCL still has some very under-served markets to move ships towards, because they are so small of a fleet.

I'm not so sure lowering the price is the answer. DCL is a niche market. Its geared to families that love Disney.

I could be wrong but I don't see those families that go on the other cruise lines choosing DCL if the price was lower

 

[Stripes]

The spending will "ramp up in the back half of that 10 year period, with more gradual increases in the first few years" was the actual quote.

Though I think we are largely saying the same thing, you are just implying to expect very little in the next five years. Something major opening in 2027 does not preclude a spending ramp. Especially since they are not really investing in DCL beyond 2025 at this current juncture, other things need to take over in that 26/27 fiscal window. Before someone comes at me about it, Royal's newest ship order was for 2028, I don't think DCL can order in 26/27 at this point.

It is also a quote about their global portfolio. Some of that non-WDW spending ramp probably includes a Shanghai gate and maybe even a Paris one at the very end of things. Those will be obviously expensive and I think be major contributors to the back half.

The actual quote was “We expect those investments to ramp up towards the back half of that 10-year period with more gradual increases in the first few years.”

To me, the statement suggests that Disney anticipates investment to meaningfully increase starting in years 3 or 4.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I'm not so sure lowering the price is the answer. DCL is a niche market. Its geared to families that love Disney.

I could be wrong but I don't see those families that go on the other cruise lines choosing DCL if the price was lower

Interesting, personally (and obviously we are just one family) but that is the exact reasoning we have used to select RCL instead of DCL. We love Disney, but when cruising, we haven't found the price difference between the two options to make it worth it to choose DCL over the RCl offerings (especially with the expanded CoCo Cay offerings.) I think if prices were equal we would go with DCL, but what is offered on the ships we don't find to be worth the premium.

They other big problem I have personally is that I don't believe any of the DCL ships have a casino, which is a big draw for me at night and for sea days.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I told you, we have always been more aligned than you gave me credit for. Just not about our opinions on some movies or my general optimism.

I'm just not as personally invested in WDW specifically as everyone else is either. Or better boundaries? Which weirdly comes out the other end as being more positive than average.

…the Business end?

I hope you didn’t have a bad burrito for lunch

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

While they have cut a few corners, a new private Island and 4 ships within 6 years or so is a good addition for DCL.

At the prices they are charging, I think they’ll struggle to fill all of them

I love that they’re expanding but find the new ship vastly inferior to the previous ones, given a choice we will always book the older ships… I think that is going to be their biggest struggle filling the new ones, people will continue to give the old ships preference.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I can see another stint as "Executive Chairman" depending on who they choose as tribute. But they would invite more proxy challenges should the board not find a new CEO in time.

This was allowed to get to this point

I’ll remind: all the things going on now are EXACTLY why Roy has Eisner ousted.

And here’s the kicker…Eisner was a much more talented ceo than Iger.

And we’re not done with this developing sad story

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, it's actually been a reasonably good investment cycle for DCL. I think I'm just one of the few people who is not against them keeping that pacing up. Especially when their competitors are launching ships with double the occupancy annually.

I also think DCL is over-priced and fortunately, because it is so, has room to discount and still do very well for themselves. A 12-15 ship fleet at a 50% premium over the industry is better than a 7 vessel fleet at a 100% mark up. DCL still has some very under-served markets to move ships towards, because they are so small of a fleet.

I think Disney has benefited for having the smallest flotilla in the sea

It has kept demand higher and therefore prices higher

Basically Econ 1

As opposed to wdw…where attendance is falling (just got a report from the ground today) and they are trying to jack prices to hide that

Econ -1

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

While they have cut a few corners, a new private Island and 4 ships within 6 years or so is a good addition for DCL.

At the prices they are charging, I think they’ll struggle to fill all of them

DCL sells because of the branding more than the product.

They are nice…no doubt. But not when you price compare

I imagine many in the castaway club either don’t l know that large portions of the opposing fleets are way better as far as amenities go…even carnival is finally going modern…or outright deny that the ships are better

RCCL ships built starting 15 years put the wish to shame…and some could eat it as a snack

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

DCL sells because of the branding more than the product.

I think the same could be said of Disney in general, they are a nostalgia company at this point, the merchandise, the movies, the parks, the ships… others currently do it better, but they don’t have the Disney characters we grew up with and love.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think the same could be said of Disney in general, they are a nostalgia company at this point, the merchandise, the movies, the parks, the ships… others currently do it better, but they don’t have the Disney characters we grew up with and love.

That's IMO a big reason outside of price in why attendance is down. Kids today aren't enamoured with Disney like their parents were/are.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the same could be said of Disney in general, they are a nostalgia company at this point, the merchandise, the movies, the parks, the ships… others currently do it better, but they don’t have the Disney characters we grew up with and love.

That’s fair…now

But 20 years ago? It was the best bang for the buck for many demographics…people left overwhelmed…not underwhelmed

 

[HauntedPirate]

That’s fair…now

But 20 years ago? It was the best bang for the buck for many demographics…people left overwhelmed…not underwhelmed

"Underwhelmed" could be a good reaction to TRON. Good ride but there isn't enough of it. Certainly not for the waits, even with the VQ (which should have been removed long ago, IMHO).

But where Eisner tried hitting singles and doubles and occasionally ended up hitting triples and home runs, Iger's entire run has been about bunting and hoping the fans don't catch on to his game.

 

[James Alucobond]

"Underwhelmed" could be a good reaction to TRON. Good ride but there isn't enough of it. Certainly not for the waits, even with the VQ (which should have been removed long ago, IMHO).

I don’t think new attraction quality is the problem. At all. Sure, there are sometimes duds, but that has always been the case. Also, loathe as I am to say it, I don’t think the IP invasion is broadly viewed as an issue either. The problem is the erosion of value in other areas, deferred maintenance, and failure to keep pace with the demands of ever-increasing attendance.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I don’t think new attraction quality is the problem. At all. Sure, there are sometimes duds, but that has always been the case. Also, loathe as I am to say it, I don’t think the IP invasion is broadly viewed as an issue either. The problem is the erosion of value in other areas, deferred maintenance, and failure to keep pace with the demands of ever-increasing attendance.

I mostly agree but there’s things with all of the new attractions that make me think old “attention to every detail” Disney would have done them better.

I love mission breakout but the building is hideous, I love the guardians ride in Epcot but the big blue box is hideous, I haven’t ridden Tron yet but the length seems laughable, I enjoy Galaxies Edge but the timeframe they picked and the lack of things to do make it feel like a miss, I think Pandora is the best new land Disney has done since Carsland but always get off the boat ride feeling it was too short and just a little more could have made it a massive success, the only thing that’s been a pure hit for me is Mickey and Minnie’s in DL, it was a true addition, a great exterior, a great queue, and a really fun ride. It’s the only ride in probably 15 years that’s feels like old Disney quality to me, and I know people who hate that ride so even it is a miss for many.

 

[Brer Panther]

I also don't really see what they could do with Tiki Room besides an update

I recall there were rumors of a Moana overlay for the Tiki Room at some point.

 

[Sectorkeeper71]

I don’t think new attraction quality is the problem. At all. Sure, there are sometimes duds, but that has always been the case. Also, loathe as I am to say it, I don’t think the IP invasion is broadly viewed as an issue either. The problem is the erosion of value in other areas, deferred maintenance, and failure to keep pace with the demands of ever-increasing attendance.

and they have made it more and more convoluted to plan a trip than ever. The genie plus system is a hot mess, and fastpass plus was already over planning your visit by booking rides months in advance (though I did benefit from that system and worked it pretty well overall)

 

[Brer Panther]

So can we just agree that Iger is actively destroying the company?

 

[Jrb1979]

I mostly agree but there’s things with all of the new attractions that make me think old “attention to every detail” Disney would have done them better.

I love mission breakout but the building is hideous, I love the guardians ride in Epcot but the big blue box is hideous, I haven’t ridden Tron yet but the length seems laughable, I enjoy Galaxies Edge but the timeframe they picked and the lack of things to do make it feel like a miss, I think Pandora is the best new land Disney has done since Carsland but always get off the boat ride feeling it was too short and just a little more could have made it a massive success, the only thing that’s been a pure hit for me is Mickey and Minnie’s in DL, it was a true addition, a great exterior, a great queue, and a really fun ride. It’s the only ride in probably 15 years that’s feels like old Disney quality to me, and I know people who hate that ride so even it is a miss for many.

At least for me a lot of that goes back to the rides that made me love Disney don't draw like they used to. Rides like Horizons and World of Motion would never be built today.

Your average guest wants flashy with some thrill. The problem is the flashy they originally advertise is never the end product due to budget cuts and the thrill is not on the level of Universal or regional parks.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So can we just agree that Iger is actively destroying the company?

Yeah, he hates money and prestige!!!

Oh wait, haven't people been saying that's all he craves? How can he get that if he's actively destroying the company?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

So can we just agree that Iger is actively destroying the company?

I wouldn’t say destroying but he is definitely damaging the brand, I also won’t give him all the credit, there’s a lot of people at Disney who deserve their share of the blame.