Disney Parks Revenue up

[Buried20KLeague]

We're in the people please buisness..

Wrong. They're in the "per guest spend" business.

Part of that entails "people pleasing".

But the pleasing is carefully calculated to what they determine the necessary point to maintain a certain ever increasing "guest spend" level.

If you were a front line CM, it was about people pleasing.

But if you parked your Cadillac SUV behind Buzz (till they built the alley), it was (and still is) about guest spend.

 

[doctornick]

It's not NECESSARY. That's my point. Argue that you want it or expect it or whatever you like... But it wasn't necessary to the experience until the abomination of MM+ was implemented.

Free (or at least available at a reasonable price) wifi is certainly an expectation in a public entertainment place like a Disney park at this point in history. Disney was going to have to have it at some point and make it reliable and able to handle the demand of the guest numbers at some point, regardless of MM+/FP+ being implemented. It's especially the case given the volume of foreign visitors to WDW who are more dependent on wifi being available.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Free (or at least available at a reasonable price) wifi is certainly an expectation in a public entertainment place like a Disney park at this point in history. Disney was going to have to have it at some point and make it reliable and able to handle the demand of the guest numbers at some point, regardless of MM+/FP+ being implemented. It's especially the case given the volume of foreign visitors to WDW who are more dependent on wifi being available.

Again... It wasn't necessary to the experience until MM+.

Argue all you want about how it needed to happen, or that it's expected in the 21st century or what have you. That's an entirely different argument than I'm making. My point is that it wasn't necessary to the park experience until MM+. That's just a fact.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Again... It wasn't necessary to the experience until MM+.

Argue all you want about how it needed to happen, or that it's expected in the 21st century or what have you. That's an entirely different argument than I'm making. My point is that it wasn't necessary to the park experience until MM+. That's just a fact.

Okay we get your point, wifi was most certainly not needed before MM+, but it is most certainly needed now because of MM+... I assume you just want the old legacy FP program back, and want MM+ done away with? Or are there any solutions or ideas you have that would have made it a better system?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Okay we get your point, wifi was most certainly not needed before MM+, but it is most certainly needed now because of MM+... I assume you just want the old legacy FP program back, and want MM+ done away with? Or are there any solutions or ideas you have that would have made it a better system?

I'll say it for the third time.

Shanghai. What they have is what should have been done at WDW. And DL or wherever. It's much more convenient, costs literally hundreds of millions less, allows for spontenaiety, puts everyone on a level playing field, and (most importantly to me) doesn't encourage the near constant use of personal mobile devices.

I don't care how much you or anyone else loves MM+... There's no way anyone would rather have that over those dollars being invested in park expansion, or a whole new park, or bringing all attractions into the 21st century. Talk about stone age... Ride Peter Pan and get back to me. THAT'S the stone age that people should care about when spending a day in the MK, in my opinion. You wanna keep the attention of millenials? Update the attractions dominated by 60's technology (where appropriate).

But you're making my point FOR me. MM+ CREATED THE NEED FOR ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS. It wasn't the other way around. Park wide wifi was implemented because TDO wanted as near to 100% participation in MM+ as they could achieve, because that's what benefitted them. That's how they achieve max return. Wifi wasn't installed as a favor to guests. It was done because it was a necessary step in getting everyone on board using the MM+ system as designed.

 

[Disney Analyst]

In the end no one is right or wrong here. Some like the program, some don't. As is clearly evident. The point is that it exists, and is not going anywhere. So do you continue to get on all fours and kick and scream about it, or do you accept and move on?

Also I have no clue how Shanghai works. I thought it was legacy and now they're charging for it?

What would you actually do to fix the current system, one that isn't going anywhere. With what exists how do you improve it?! That's what I want to know.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

In the end no one is right or wrong here. Some like the program, some don't. As is clearly evident. The point is that it exists, and is not going anywhere. So do you continue to get on all fours and kick and scream about it, or do you accept and move on?

Also I have no clue how Shanghai works. I thought it was legacy and now they're charging for it?

What would you actually do to fix the current system, one that isn't going anywhere. With what exists how do you improve it?! That's what I want to know.

I don't kick and scream. I voice my displeasure with my wallet. I visit other Disney resorts around the world. It's been 18 months since we've been to WDW, and my kids couldn't care less. Instead, they see our Hong Kong season passes and wanna know when we're going back.

Shanghai has centralized FP distribution locations in each land right off the hub. Two in fantasyland. They're touch screen. You walk up, choose your ride, and get your tickets. Instead of traipsing from one corner of the other. The longest walk is to the hub. That's all that was needed. It could have been done for a fraction of the cost. I'm not fond of the idea you can pay for more. That I would shut down. But when I was there, almost literally nobody was taking advantage of it.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I'll certainly admit my love for MM+ is biased because I'm a local and go weekly. And I do not wait for any attraction e ticket or not if it's more than 30 mins. Lol. I haven't the desire nor the patience

And they didn't design the system for you. They designed it for the one time visitor. they don't get the return from someone like you that they do from the 9 day vacationers. That's who this is aimed at. Frankly, you're the unfortunate benefactor of the whole thing in their eyes. They want to cut as many of you out as possible. Proof of THAT is how much AP's have raised exponentially over the past few years. They're trying to price people like you out. Or at least some percentage of people like you.

My main point is this isn't the WDW of 15 years ago. They didn't do all this to HELP you. They did it because it was a way to get more out of your wallet without addeding rides or improving. That's what drives me nuts.

And yes, they're adding more now. I think because they didn't have a choice. It was too long a down period, and Uni has been going crazy. They're keeping up with the joneses... not leading the industry. Not anymore.

 

[Kman101]

The raging hatred some have for FP+ and using their phone is amusing to me. I don't like what was spent on it but what's done is done the money has been spent and this is what we have. Are there ways I'd change it? Sure there are. Do I wish they spent the money on attractions and other things, yes I do. But some of the arguments against it don't hold up for me, in my own experience with it. It actually allows you to be MORE flexible. I also don't believe it FORCES you to plan six months out. If you can't snag a fast pass, it's called waiting in the standby line. Just because you can't get a FP you aren't being denied access to riding. Do you think Frozen Ever After paper fast passes wouldn't go almost immediately? Mine Train? It wouldn't be that much different than having trouble scoring one now. I've personally gotten a Mine Train one, and even FEA seems to have improved slightly and become more available. I've never felt "forced" to do lesser attractions, but that's what they're there for, to do while you wait for other attractions. You'd have to do this with a paper fast pass ticket. Lines aren't longer because of FP+. They're longer because of FastPass period. And more people than were coming a decade ago.

But we've been down this argument road before ... I know how some feel on this and that's fine, and some have had terrible experiences with using the MB, so I get it. I understand resisting change. I think they could have implemented it better. The parks need more attractions so you aren't using FP's on shows and fireworks viewing spots. I wish they'd make it day of only, or maybe 30 days for resort guests, or even a week for resort guests. There's things I'd change but I like booking FastPasses on my phone and being able to switch times and switch to something else. Before you were more or less stuck with one before you could get another. Now you have three booked.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I am aware of the underlying motives behind MM+. The system may not have been created to benefit me BUT I use it to my advantage. You cannot sit behind your keyboard and tell me otherwise since I do it every week. And please, they've added attractions/rides as well as improved substantially in recent years...so try another argument.

Lol. Mkay.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The raging hatred some have for FP+ and using their phone is amusing to me. I don't like what was spent on it but what's done is done the money has been spent and this is what we have. Are there ways I'd change it? Sure there are. Do I wish they spent the money on attractions and other things, yes I do. But some of the arguments against it don't hold up for me, in my own experience with it. It actually allows you to be MORE flexible. I also don't believe it FORCES you to plan six months out. If you can't snag a fast pass, it's called waiting in the standby line. Just because you can't get a FP you aren't being denied access to riding. Do you think Frozen Ever After paper fast passes wouldn't go almost immediately? Mine Train? It wouldn't be that much different than having trouble scoring one now. I've personally gotten a Mine Train one, and even FEA seems to have improved slightly and become more available. I've never felt "forced" to do lesser attractions, but that's what they're there for, to do while you wait for other attractions. You'd have to do this with a paper fast pass ticket. Lines aren't longer because of FP+. They're longer because of FastPass period. And more people than were coming a decade ago.

But we've been down this argument road before ... I know how some feel on this and that's fine, and some have had terrible experiences with using the MB, so I get it. I understand resisting change. I think they could have implemented it better. The parks need more attractions so you aren't using FP's on shows and fireworks viewing spots. I wish they'd make it day of only, or maybe 30 days for resort guests, or even a week for resort guests. There's things I'd change but I like booking FastPasses on my phone and being able to switch times and switch to something else. Before you were more or less stuck with one before you could get another. Now you have three booked.

Not to mention the gross overestimate of how much was spent on the system. Let me repeat, I don't even think that Disney has a dollar for dollar exact cost on it. It was mixed in with so many other things and accounted for under so many head lines that it is impossible for any one person to actually know. However, it isn't hard to understand how the number got so inflated, because on these boards alone it went from 800K to 3 Billion in just a few short weeks. Every time someone posted the number was rounded up. That said, you are correct, the beating of dead horses is like a epidemic, it just gets bigger and bigger with time and there doesn't seem to be a vaccination to combat it.

 

[rushtest4echo]

Again... It wasn't necessary to the experience until MM+.

Argue all you want about how it needed to happen, or that it's expected in the 21st century or what have you. That's an entirely different argument than I'm making. My point is that it wasn't necessary to the park experience until MM+. That's just a fact.

You've made that point several times. It's a terrible one. Even the Cedar Fair parks have parkwide wifi going in now. The backbone upgrades and non-public wifi channels are used for an immeasurable amount of behind the scenes stuff. The majority of it has nothing to do with monetizing or FP+.

But again, keep beating the "wifi isn't necessary" horse. If you feel reliable wifi isn't needed at WDW then you are clearly clueless as to what guests expect out if a modern resort. Guest feedback was the reason for the public facing MM+ including wifi, fastpass+, online ordering, hotel access, pos and other mechanisms. And even if none of that was done for the public benefits, it was required for the things the guests don't see.

The armchair imagineering and management sillyness is so beyond ridiculous regarding MM+ (among other things) and the conflated rumors aboit costs were roundly put to bed in several earnings calls and public interviews. I know though, its all a sham by clueless bafoons with decades of financial and operational management experience running ten billion dollar operations, Im sure a bitter nerd or two who 'knows people' is a better source...

 

[Buried20KLeague]

You've made that point several times. It's a terrible one. Even the Cedar Fair parks have parkwide wifi going in now. The backbone upgrades and non-public wifi channels are used for an immeasurable amount of behind the scenes stuff. The majority of it has nothing to do with monetizing or FP+.

But again, keep beating the "wifi isn't necessary" horse. If you feel reliable wifi isn't needed at WDW then you are clearly clueless as to what guests expect out if a modern resort. Guest feedback was the reason for the public facing MM+ including wifi, fastpass+, online ordering, hotel access, pos and other mechanisms. And even if none of that was done for the public benefits, it was required for the things the guests don't see.

The armchair imagineering and management sillyness is so beyond ridiculous regarding MM+ (among other things) and the conflated rumors aboit costs were roundly put to bed in several earnings calls and public interviews. I know though, its all a sham by clueless bafoons with decades of financial and operational management experience running ten billion dollar operations, Im sure a bitter nerd or two who 'knows people' is a better source...

You're cute.

If you need wifi while in the MK, you're doing it wrong.

Guest feedback is why they installed wifi? Lol

I'm sure it had nothing to do with MM+ and exploiting it.

Seriously. That makes no sense. Enjoy MM+ if you like... but don't be blind to what it's about. It's not even as if it's difficult to see what it's about.

They didn't install wifi to cater to those with short attention spans that require it. They did it to ensure you could stay tethered to MM+ to keep you tied in and maximize their return.

Why did EVERY OTHER DISNEY RESORT on the planet pass on it all if it's such a great system? Other resorts wouldn't even eat their own dog food. Why would you??

DL passed on it. Shanghai passed on it. Tokyo. Hong Kong. Paris.

Coincidence? Lol

 

[rushtest4echo]

^ You've clearly gotten it all figured out.

Getting rid of ticket media wasn't required
Removing room keys wasn't required
Having a way to pay for stuff without a card wasn't required
Making advance dining and ride reservations via the web wasn't required
Having interactive signage and queues wasn't required
Having in park and in hotel wifi wasn't required
Ordering food via and app wasn't required
Having a system that better distributes crowds to smaller attractions wasn't required
Having showtimes, queue lengths, maps and other things accessible wasn't required

None of those were required. But they're things that guests were asking for, regardless of whether or not they add value to YOUR visit is irrelevant. These are all net positives in most guests eyes, regardless of your and a few other's bellyaching about progress. And yes, they certainly made these investments to create efficiencies and monetary advantages. Shocker. They made a billion+ dollar investment and they expect it to generate returns. What a novel concept. And mostly, they're all things that came included in a massive telecom upgrade that was absolutely required whether it had direct money benefits or not.

By the way, Shanghai has MM+'s infrastructure built in, they're just not using Magicbands. The backbone is there. It's also being installed at DLR and DLP as I type this. The point person is a good friend of mine. But again, since you're not aware of any of the true motives, uses or underlying advantages of the system, I don't expect you to grasp why it's a good idea for guests and/or the company. But go ahead, keep demonstrating how clueless you are when you say other parks are passing on this.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But go ahead, keep demonstrating how clueless you are when you say other parks are passing on this.

Just for the fun of it, does anyone really think that the Disney Company would have invested that much money in a system and then allow individual parks to decide whether or not they want to use it? Particularly in the ones that they own out right. Does anyone think that the BOD would make such a decision and then say... well, OK, if you (name our park) management decide that you don't want to use this it's fine with us. After all, it is normal procedure to override top managements desires because you (little person running individual parks) think it is a waste of money?

WDW, being the biggest and most complicated, was used to start it out. WDW would be the one that would be the quickest to experience all facets of possible problems and find a way to overcome them. I feel very confident about this... as soon as they feel that the majority of glitches have been ironed out, it will be in every park that Disney owns and pressure will be applied to the others to also use it. Since the money comes from a separate fund and not a parks individual operating expense they have already shared in the cost theoretically anyway.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You're cute.

If you need wifi while in the MK, you're doing it wrong.

Guest feedback is why they installed wifi? Lol

I'm sure it had nothing to do with MM+ and exploiting it.

Seriously. That makes no sense. Enjoy MM+ if you like... but don't be blind to what it's about. It's not even as if it's difficult to see what it's about.

They didn't install wifi to cater to those with short attention spans that require it. They did it to ensure you could stay tethered to MM+ to keep you tied in and maximize their return.

Why did EVERY OTHER DISNEY RESORT on the planet pass on it all if it's such a great system? Other resorts wouldn't even eat their own dog food. Why would you??

DL passed on it. Shanghai passed on it. Tokyo. Hong Kong. Paris.

Coincidence? Lol

I disagree on the Wifi. No matter how detailed the queue's may be, Wifi in public spaces is becoming the norm. The issue here was the massive infrastructure investment relative to what they received in return. It seems wildly disproportionate.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Just came from Disneyland and the way they are doing it now is the best way.

Fastpass system done digitally. Very good, and easy to get get Fastpasses for half a dozen E-tickets. Plus was super cheap to implement.
Of course the local crowd vs. tourist also helps, as well as having more rides per park and less people per park, but it was a much better experience.

 

[drizgirl]

Just came from Disneyland and the way they are doing it now is the best way.

Fastpass system done digitally. Very good, and easy to get get Fastpasses for half a dozen E-tickets. Plus was super cheap to implement.
Of course the local crowd vs. tourist also helps, as well as having more rides per park and less people per park, but it was a much better experience.

A huge piece of this is the inability to schedule before you get to the park. Let's hope they keep it that way.

Since the electronic scheduling portion of this hasn't rolled out yet (due very soon) we don't know yet if ease of scheduling electronically will negatively impact availability.

You're cute.

If you need wifi while in the MK, you're doing it wrong.

Guest feedback is why they installed wifi? Lol

I'm sure it had nothing to do with MM+ and exploiting it.

Seriously. That makes no sense. Enjoy MM+ if you like... but don't be blind to what it's about. It's not even as if it's difficult to see what it's about.

They didn't install wifi to cater to those with short attention spans that require it. They did it to ensure you could stay tethered to MM+ to keep you tied in and maximize their return.

Why did EVERY OTHER DISNEY RESORT on the planet pass on it all if it's such a great system? Other resorts wouldn't even eat their own dog food. Why would you??

DL passed on it. Shanghai passed on it. Tokyo. Hong Kong. Paris.

Coincidence? Lol

I think it's very telling that DLR didn't add public wifi until they were ready to start selling their digital FP system. Disney seems to add public wifi when it suits them, as opposed to when it suits their customer.

 

[Daveeeeed]

A huge piece of this is the inability to schedule before you get to the park. Let's hope they keep it that way.

Since the electronic scheduling portion of this hasn't rolled out yet (due very soon) we don't know yet if ease of scheduling electronically will negatively impact availability.

I think it's very telling that DLR didn't add public wifi until they were ready to start selling their digital FP system. Disney seems to add public wifi when it suits them, as opposed to when it suits their customer.

Correct. As long as it is same day Fastpasses it will be lovely. I hope so badly that they do not let you Book in advance. Sure, you don't have to book 60 days in advanced at Disney World, by the problem is Fastpass+ has bloated wait times for all of the usually secondary rides. In turn this has made it very difficult to go on a ride while you are waiting for your Fastpass. That's the main problem. While we were at DCA, we got a Fastpass for Radiator Springs Racers and then went on the California Screamin' while we were waiting. Try going on Rock n' Rollercoaster while you have a Fastpass for TSMM at WDW and you'll see what I mean.

 

[drizgirl]

Correct. As long as it is same day Fastpasses it will be lovely. I hope so badly that they do not let you Book in advance. Sure, you don't have to book 60 days in advanced at Disney World, by the problem is Fastpass+ has bloated wait times for all of the usually secondary rides. In turn this has made it very difficult to go on a ride while you are waiting for your Fastpass. That's the main problem. While we were at DCA, we got a Fastpass for Radiator Springs Racers and then went on the California Screamin' while we were waiting. Try going on Rock n' Rollercoaster while you have a Fastpass for TSMM at WDW and you'll see what I mean.

Well, Screamin has FP. But the real reason it typically has a reasonable wait is that it's in a park with enough other headline attractions that the demand is far more dispersed than it ever has been at DHS. I'm not sure it will even be comparable when Star Wars Land opens in DHS.