News Disney Park Pass System announced for Walt Disney World theme park reservations

[lazyboy97o]

Good point. But we can decide on a whim where to eat locally. Not true on vacation at WDW, since many places book up. It was good for them to add the walk up option.
Locals would still have to book ahead for many of the more popular restaurants. They cannot decide on a busy Friday to simply walk up to a lot of places.

It’s be a lot easier to get in to places if Walt Disney World had adequate capacity. That applies to pretty much everything. Inadequate capacity is pretty much the thing that drives so many issues.

 

[drnilescrane]

It’s be a lot easier to get in to places if Walt Disney World had adequate capacity. That applies to pretty much everything. Inadequate capacity is pretty much the thing that drives so many issues.

I'm sorry, but for popular experiences there's only so much capacity you can add.

There's only one California Grill. Yes, there could be multiple California Gill level experiences, but everybody is going to want to go to "the" definitive experience. If you add something to supplant it, the demand is just going to shift.

So either you make the CA Grill buffet sized, you raise prices to be astronomical, or you accept there's going to be some competition for reservations.

It's the same argument against a fifth gate - hell, it's why DAK has problems. Everybody is going want to ride Pirates and Mansion. It's the definitive WDW experience. Every hotel room you add to WDW just increases the competition to try and get into Magic Kingdom.

 

[Tha Realest]

I'm sorry, but for popular experiences there's only so much capacity you can add.

There's only one California Grill. Yes, there could be multiple California Gill level experiences, but everybody is going to want to go to "the" definitive experience. If you add something to supplant it, the demand is just going to shift.

So either you make the CA Grill buffet sized, you raise prices to be astronomical, or you accept there's going to be some competition for reservations.

It's the same argument against a fifth gate - hell, it's why DAK has problems. Everybody is going want to ride Pirates and Mansion. It's the definitive WDW experience. Every hotel room you add to WDW just increases the competition to try and get into Magic Kingdom.

They keep building more hotels and DVCs.

They replace old rides with new ones, often with less capacity and reliability.

See the problem?

 

[Chi84]

I guess what I was trying to get across, unsuccessfully, was that we were just fine with the older 180 day ADR system. We have never cancelled an ADR due to not wanting a particular type of food, as we know the food we like.

I think you got your point across just fine. WDW has a lot of restaurants that are special due to theming, atmosphere, location or type of food. Many people planning trips have done their research and are looking forward to the experience, which isn't going to change in a few months. We always knew what restaurants we wanted to book 180 days out - I'm pretty sure a lot of people do. People aren't going to WDW restaurants just to eat; we have our local restaurants for that.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Another question for @lentesta... Are date based tickets and pricing actually spreading out the crowds? I would think that the low end / cheapest Disney vacation isn't swung drastically by the ticket price, but rather the hotel price.

 

[drnilescrane]

They keep building more hotels and DVCs.

They replace old rides with new ones, often with less capacity and reliability.

See the problem?

I guess I never had a problem with them raising prices to meet demand.

I had a problem with quality. Charge $1000 a night - you ultimately don't have a right to go to WDW - but you better be delivering Four Seasons quality for that price point.

The Chapek era was marked by contempt for the customer - seeing everybody as an easy mark to rip off.

Even if you just went aggressively for the mass market. I'd still argue that WDW is at a point where simply more capacity isn't going to fix anything. You'd just have more people upset they can't experience "core experiences" such as Soarin, Midway Mania or much of the MK.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm sorry, but for popular experiences there's only so much capacity you can add.

There's only one California Grill. Yes, there could be multiple California Gill level experiences, but everybody is going to want to go to "the" definitive experience. If you add something to supplant it, the demand is just going to shift.

So either you make the CA Grill buffet sized, you raise prices to be astronomical, or you accept there's going to be some competition for reservations.

It's the same argument against a fifth gate - hell, it's why DAK has problems. Everybody is going want to ride Pirates and Mansion. It's the definitive WDW experience. Every hotel room you add to WDW just increases the competition to try and get into Magic Kingdom.

How come the Indians Jones Adventure doesn’t have a line stretching through Disneyland like it did in 1995? It’s not because demand finally shifted to Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters ten years later. Demand, even for popular experiences, absolutely can be shifted and spread out.

The over competition for experiences at Walt Disney World is well beyond a few exceptional experiences. It dominates every facet of a visit.

 

[Tha Realest]

I guess I never had a problem with them raising prices to meet demand.

I had a problem with quality. Charge $1000 a night - you ultimately don't have a right to go to WDW - but you better be delivering Four Seasons quality for that price point.

The Chapek era was marked by contempt for the customer - seeing everybody as an easy mark to rip off.

Even if you just went aggressively for the mass market. I'd still argue that WDW is at a point where simply more capacity isn't going to fix anything. You'd just have more people upset they can't experience "core experiences" such as Soarin, Midway Mania or much of the MK.

i don’t disagree with this. It may be like the rationale that public engineers have towards expanding highways. It doesn’t necessarily reduce traffic or congestion- it just means more people will use those roads and routes.

Plus, if you’re Disney, you could increase revenues by just raising prices. Trying to increase revenues by expanding capacity is far more costly.

That’s a good point though. More people in park doesn’t do anything to alleviate demand on the core attractions (FOP, ROTR, etc) that have a fixed capacity.

 

[lazyboy97o]

i don’t disagree with this. It may be like the rationale that public engineers have towards expanding highways. It doesn’t necessarily reduce traffic or congestion- it just means more people will use those roads and routes.

Plus, if you’re Disney, you could increase revenues by just raising prices. Trying to increase revenues by expanding capacity is far more costly.

That’s a good point though. More people in park doesn’t do anything to alleviate demand on the core attractions (FOP, ROTR, etc) that have a fixed capacity.

There are strategies for how to deal with induced demand in a theme park setting. It’s why it’s recommended to follow tick-tock or tick-tock-tock investment patterns. Your ticks are you big scale investments that generate more demand, while your tocks are smaller investments that absorb the demand.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm sorry, but for popular experiences there's only so much capacity you can add.

There's only one California Grill. Yes, there could be multiple California Gill level experiences, but everybody is going to want to go to "the" definitive experience. If you add something to supplant it, the demand is just going to shift.

So either you make the CA Grill buffet sized, you raise prices to be astronomical, or you accept there's going to be some competition for reservations.

It's the same argument against a fifth gate - hell, it's why DAK has problems. Everybody is going want to ride Pirates and Mansion. It's the definitive WDW experience. Every hotel room you add to WDW just increases the competition to try and get into Magic Kingdom.

I appreciate your zeal…but respectfully disagree with your assessment of what the problems are.

They keep building more hotels and DVCs.

They replace old rides with new ones, often with less capacity and reliability.

See the problem?

You know…you might be on to something there…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I like the use of “chapek era” to describe the problems…as if they didn’t blow their capacity, charge ridiculous rates, and reduce quality while trying to resell standard stuff prior to 30 months ago…

 

[fgmnt]

There are strategies for how to deal with induced demand in a theme park setting. It’s why it’s recommended to follow tick-tock or tick-tock-tock investment patterns. Your ticks are you big scale investments that generate more demand, while your tocks are smaller investments that absorb the demand.

Orlando has really innovated here, going with tock-tock-tock-tock in New Fantasyland and tick-tick-tick in Hollywood Studios.

 

[lentesta]

Another question for @lentesta... Are date based tickets and pricing actually spreading out the crowds? I would think that the low end / cheapest Disney vacation isn't swung drastically by the ticket price, but rather the hotel price.

Disney said it did, both pre- and post-pandemic. I believe them. Which is why I don’t think the park reservation system is necessary.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Orlando has really innovated here, going with tock-tock-tock-tock in New Fantasyland and tick-tick-tick in Hollywood Studios.

…none of it is that good

 

[CastAStone]

I'm sorry, but for popular experiences there's only so much capacity you can add.

There's only one California Grill. Yes, there could be multiple California Gill level experiences, but everybody is going to want to go to "the" definitive experience. If you add something to supplant it, the demand is just going to shift.

So either you make the CA Grill buffet sized, you raise prices to be astronomical, or you accept there's going to be some competition for reservations.

It's the same argument against a fifth gate - hell, it's why DAK has problems. Everybody is going want to ride Pirates and Mansion. It's the definitive WDW experience. Every hotel room you add to WDW just increases the competition to try and get into Magic Kingdom.

It’s why Disney needs another North American castle park, not a 5th gate. Put it in Cleveland. Or Iowa City. Or Memphis, but on the Arkansas side so it’s in the right place for Marvel content.

 

[CastAStone]

Disney said it did, both pre- and post-pandemic. I believe them. Which is why I don’t think the park reservation system is necessary.

I did a check about a month ago on your sites historic data and found something really interesting:

Through 10/26, there’d been 1,188 park-day pairs in 2022. Touring Plans had measured crowd at a 5-7 on 790 of them, and 4-8 on 1,034 of them.

I mean what more could you ask for in terms of tight attendance control?

And, they’ve basically eliminated the extreme conditions when you compare to pre-pandemic:

• In 2019 through Oct 26th there were 71 park-day pairs with 10/10 crowds. This year there have been just 13
• In 2019 through Oct 26 there were 133 park day pairs at 1/10, while this year there had only been 16

So I think they’re achieving their objectives pretty tightly!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney said it did, both pre- and post-pandemic. I believe them. Which is why I don’t think the park reservation system is necessary.

You still think the reservations are about managing crowds?

…it’s labor allocation. Just a guess

 

[nickys]

Hi, where can one find the 14 for 7 offer?

They’re the U.K. tickets.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I guess what I was trying to get across, unsuccessfully, was that we were just fine with the older 180 day ADR system. We have never cancelled an ADR due to not wanting a particular type of food, as we know the food we like.

I expect 180 to return, and I think it was always the plan for it to do so. But they haven't been able to project staffing that far in advance to support it. I think 180 and Dining Plan return at the same time.

 

[zulemara]

I did a check about a month ago on your sites historic data and found something really interesting:

Through 10/26, there’d been 1,188 park-day pairs in 2022. Touring Plans had measured crowd at a 5-7 on 790 of them, and 4-8 on 1,034 of them.

I mean what more could you ask for in terms of tight attendance control?

And, they’ve basically eliminated the extreme conditions when you compare to pre-pandemic:

• In 2019 through Oct 26th there were 71 park-day pairs with 10/10 crowds. This year there have been just 13
• In 2019 through Oct 26 there were 133 park day pairs at 1/10, while this year there had only been 16

So I think they’re achieving their objectives pretty tightly!

Yeah but the parks don’t FEEL like those number s for a whole host of reasons. 2019 = 21 million attendance, 2021 = 13 million attendance. We don’t know 2022 yet but regardless, it’s about how busy the parks feel to the guest and how long wait times are.