Disney No Longer Including Appetizers for Deluxe Dining Plan

[ford91exploder]

No, false. Read what I wrote.

The LAW is that employers are allowed to pay a "tipped wage". In LA that may be $3 an hour (I think it's actually $3.15, but I won't bother checking, I don't work restaurants anymore and it's not pertinent to the point).

Lets say it's $3 an hour. And minimum wage is $7.50 an hour.

The employee, at the end of their shift, is to report their tips to their employer. If the employee makes, at the end of a pay period, less than minimum wage of the federal $7.25 (which I'm fairly sure is the wage that LA defers to), the employer is to make up the difference.

By law, a tipped wage employee should NEVER make less than minimum wage.

But we all know the reality is different at some places mainly the 'cash only' ones.

 

[ford91exploder]

I've covered this in length elsewhere. It is a two way street. Employers "assume" a tip rate based on sales (in some states that's allowed), but it's also because employees tend to underreport cash tips. As POS systems get more and more electronic, and more transactions are debit/credit, the playing field is starting to change.

I hear what your saying, and know it exists (as well as faulty tip practices, like tipping out non-tipped wage employees, and I've even heard stories where managers dip into a tip pool, all of which is HIGHLY illegal...

But, the law is as I stated. Getting into actual practice makes it really muddy that to fully understand one needs to manage a tipped wage establishment for a while (not just work as a server, work as a high level manager who has to deal with payroll, etc.)

Up here a LOT of breakfast and lunch places are 'cash only' to avoid the reporting requirements etc, You can be sure the 'cash only' places are the ones dancing on the line of legality. Strangely enough the servers don't tend to stay long I wonder why...

 

[englanddg]

But we all know the reality is different.

It's something I can say really does truly depend on the establishment, and more importantly the General Manager / corporate culture.

It's not proactively enforced by any Labor Dept that I've seen, nor any revenue collection dept (which is surprising, because under reporting is just as common as over reporting, for example, when I worked for Waffle House, they regularly underreported their tips...and it was hard for me to prove what they got because it was mostly cash. This is why you'll see some places with signs that say "no cash tips please").

Like I said, it's a two way street.

 

[ford91exploder]

It's something I can say really does truly depend on the establishment, and more importantly the General Manager / corporate culture.

It's not proactively enforced by any Labor Dept that I've seen, nor any revenue collection dept (which is surprising, because under reporting is just as common as over reporting, for example, when I worked for Waffle House, they regularly underreported their tips...and it was hard for me to prove what they got because it was mostly cash. This is why you'll see some places with signs that say "no cash tips please").

Like I said, it's a two way street.

Yes it is and you have FAR more experience in that world than I, I have friends with a restaurant and I've occasionally been pressed into service as a sous chef when visiting there and things became insane, Restaurants are about the hardest business around to succeed in.

 

[englanddg]

Yes it is and you have FAR more experience in that world than I, I have friends with a restaurant and I've occasionally been pressed into service as a sous chef when visiting there and things became insane, Restaurants are about the hardest business around to succeed in.

When I worked for Waffle House, I was hired to be a Unit Coach (which is their version of a General Manager). I had to, like most restaurants do, go through the base training all the way to the top. Meaning, I had to spend a week as a server, a week as a cook, a week as an assistant manager, etc...during training.

That week I worked in a rather busy store, with a solid first shift, average second, and slammed third (it had nightclubs and bars nearby, within walking distance even). That week I made around 800 cash in tips, third shift being the best money maker, but the most inconsistant (meaning, for every one table that left me a few dollars, I'd end up with a table of drunks that left me a 20 or something). First shift was the most consistent, mostly being elderly people who ate there regularly (like...every day) and people on the way to work. Never any huge surprise tips, but a constant flow of around 2 - 3 dollar per table. With the low counter plus 3, I had 3 four tops and 9 single counter seats. I'm sure you can do that math.

However, when I moved on, and had to actually REPORT the tips that my employees were telling me, they'd say they made "$45" or something...which was clearly inaccurate, and I knew it.

That's why some states allow for the "assumed tip"...the issue is, as you noted, some managers abuse this (as did a Louisiana Kitchen I worked for as a teenager briefly that I had no idea they were breaking the law until years later).

 

[PhotoDave219]

Tipping or a gratuity is optional, if it wasn't it would be included in the cheque.

If I got free dining, I wouldn't tip on food I didn't pay for. Tip on what you were charged.

If you don't like it then you don't work for a place which gives 'free' meals....or one that requires tips.

The server still gets paid either way.

You might be a flaming pile of detritus. Or you might be a gaping pile of detritus.

Either way, you're a pile of detritus.

Please never use a service where people traditionally leave a gratuity: bellhops, valet, bartenders and waitstaff at restaurants. You clearly are part of what is wrong with tourists and give people traveling from out of town a bad name.

 

[sxeensweet]

No, false. Read what I wrote.

The LAW is that employers are allowed to pay a "tipped wage". In LA that may be $3 an hour (I think it's actually $3.15, but I won't bother checking, I don't work restaurants anymore and it's not pertinent to the point).

Lets say it's $3 an hour. And minimum wage is $7.50 an hour.

The employee, at the end of their shift, is to report their tips to their employer. If the employee makes, at the end of a pay period, less than minimum wage of the federal $7.25 (which I'm fairly sure is the wage that LA defers to), the employer is to make up the difference.

By law, a tipped wage employee should NEVER make less than minimum wage.

That's why I said "around" $3 lol but anyway....On the note of adding to make sure they will end up with minimum wage that may be what they are supposed to do but like said some don't always follow it. I know people that this has been the case where it was dead on nights so not really any tips and never got paid to compensate to get up to the standard minimum wage rate once they had gotten paid. And being tips are not reportable for tax purposes how would anyone know these businesses never made up for not getting any tips when it's all said and done. All the owner has to say is they recieved enough tips to make sure they had minimum wage.
I personally had worked in the Bar industry for several years myself besides the other friends that worked in bars, Etc., and all the bartenders counted their own tips and got the standard server wage $3.15 (or whatever it was then) for hours worked every 2 weeks regardless of how much they made in tips or not made in tips. Our owner never knew what they made in tips total (because some was cash of course too) as it was their job to count them like I said.
It is a very hard law to enforce when tips are not taxed and on the worker's checks they receive.

 

[englanddg]

That's why I said "around" $3 lol but anyway....

Yeah, I know. It wasn't tantamount to your point. I wasn't trying to harp! <grin>

On the note of adding to make sure they will end up with minimum wage that may be what they are supposed to do but like said some don't always follow it. I know people that this has been the case where it was dead on nights so not really any tips and never got paid to compensate to get up to the standard minimum wage rate once they had gotten paid.

It's calculated per a certain period. It has been a while for me, but I want to say, without googling the laws, that it's weekly? It is at least per pay period. It certainly isn't shift by shift. A common misconception of hourly workers of all sorts (even normal hourly workers think that if they work 10 hours one day, and 6 the next, they are due overtime, even though it equals out to 16, and isn't overtime until the end of the pay period).

And being tips are not reportable for tax purposes

Oh yes they are. That is patently false. Sorry, but it is. But, that common misconception is why the "assumptions" that some states allow exist, because servers do NOT accurately report tips. But, by law, both the employer and the employee are required to report tips...not just the employer (in the case of the employee), but to the local/state/federal government. The employer is required to pay 7.65% FICA on it, as well as withhold appropriate taxes on it. Again, why employers lobbied their State Houses to have some leniency, because it was difficult to accurately track cash tips as employees regularly underreported. The employers wanted to be sure the liability for underreporting lay strictly on the individual, not them (note, again, their FICA/FUTA/SUTA as well as W-2 Withholdings are strongly based upon it, with severe penalties if they fail to comply.)

how would anyone know these businesses never made up for not getting any tips when it's all said and done. All the owner has to say is they received enough tips to make sure they had minimum wage.

Yes, but in both directions. As I said, underreporting by servers, specifically with cash tips, is just as common, in my experience, if not a bit more common, than employers overreporting tips. The employee thinks...well, I'll just pocket this $20 and not report it...for example...but there are repercussions for the employer if that becomes a regular thing.

I personally had worked in the Bar industry for several years myself besides the other friends that worked in bars, Etc., and all the bartenders counted their own tips and got the standard server wage $3.15 (or whatever it was then) for hours worked every 2 weeks regardless of how much they made in tips or not made in tips. Our owner never knew what they made in tips total (because some was cash of course too) as it was their job to count them like I said.

As I noted, especially with smaller businesses, there is a lot of overlook. But, what you just described is illegal.

It is a very hard law to enforce when tips are not taxed and on the worker's checks they receive.

Again, tip income is SUPPOSED to be taxed. You don't get to make a dollar in the US without reporting it, unless you make so little that you don't meet the minimum reporting requirement (under 2k annually, I think), otherwise you (and the employer) are breaking state and federal law.

Hence why there are reporting requirements the employer is SUPPOSED to follow.

But, as we all know, it's rarely enforced.

 

[sxeensweet]

Yeah, I know. It wasn't tantamount to your point. I wasn't trying to harp! <grin>



It's calculated per a certain period. It has been a while for me, but I want to say, without googling the laws, that it's weekly? It is at least per pay period. It certainly isn't shift by shift. A common misconception of hourly workers of all sorts (even normal hourly workers think that if they work 10 hours one day, and 6 the next, they are due overtime, even though it equals out to 16, and isn't overtime until the end of the pay period).



Oh yes they are. That is patently false. Sorry, but it is. But, that common misconception is why the "assumptions" that some states allow exist, because servers do NOT accurately report tips. But, by law, both the employer and the employee are required to report tips...not just the employer (in the case of the employee), but to the local/state/federal government. The employer is required to pay 7.65% FICA on it, as well as withhold appropriate taxes on it. Again, why employers lobbied their State Houses to have some leniency, because it was difficult to accurately track cash tips as employees regularly underreported. The employers wanted to be sure the liability for underreporting lay strictly on the individual, not them (note, again, their FICA/FUTA/SUTA as well as W-2 Withholdings are strongly based upon it, with severe penalties if they fail to comply.)



Yes, but in both directions. As I said, underreporting by servers, specifically with cash tips, is just as common, in my experience, if not a bit more common, than employers overreporting tips. The employee thinks...well, I'll just pocket this $20 and not report it...for example...but there are repercussions for the employer if that becomes a regular thing.




As I noted, especially with smaller businesses, there is a lot of overlook. But, what you just described is illegal.


Again, tip income is SUPPOSED to be taxed. You don't get to make a dollar in the US without reporting it, unless you make so little that you don't meet the minimum reporting requirement (under 2k annually, I think), otherwise you (and the employer) are breaking state and federal law.

Hence why there are reporting requirements the employer is SUPPOSED to follow.

But, as we all know, it's rarely enforced.

I know you are not trying to harp as to why I didn't say much about it. lol. Everything you are saying is true but it is mostly not followed or enforced like you also mentioned.

 

[sxeensweet]

But as @englanddg points out they must receive the federal minimum wage, Unfortunately that's hard to prove

Yeah I don't know many places that ever follow that including the bar I had worked at before, and the places my family and friends have worked never did either.

 

[englanddg]

Yeah I don't know many places that ever follow that including the bar I had worked at before, and the places my family and friends have worked never did either.

I worked for a while at a bar as a bouncer (weekend job while I was teaching college, odd story, but I knew the owners well and needed some extra cash).

I was paid in cash.

That's all I'll say.

Small restaurants and bars flirt the laws all the time. And, if ever caught (which is rare) they claim ignorance and being "overwhelmed", then pull one of two cards...if it's the employee, they say "I didn't know, I thought..."...if its the employer, they have an extra card to play "It's just so hard to run a small business."

And the excuse train chugs along. <grin>

 

[englanddg]

I'll give another example, and this was from when I was a teenager. I worked for min wage (4.25 at the time, I think) not tipped wage. But, I'd bring home about 200 bucks a week in tips (which, yes, I did report to the taxing authorities, but didn't have to report to my employer, as I was not a tipped wage employee).

I put on birthday parties for kids. My trick? Well...a few things. And, as disclosure, I'd prep my "Moms" (because lets face it, that's what, 99% of the time, gets Dad to pay for this stuff, not being sexist, just saying, that's how most households worked, especially in the mid-90s).

1) Every day was my Birthday. Not kidding. I made it a point that when a new party was coming in, I'd be out at the Kidcheck stand waiting for them, and even if I was having a bad day, I'd pump up the charm.

When I met the birthday kid I'd say, "Wait...today is your birthday? GUESS WHAT! It's MY BIRTHDAY TOO! How OLD are you? 7? WOW!" (and then I'd ask the kid to hold out their hand as I handed out tokens, one per year, that, at first, I purchased myself, but when I became I manager, I instituted this)

But, there were other little tricks. I'd give all the tokens to Mom (one thing I argued for a long time when I got promoted to corporate training should be standard...but was never adopted wide scale...dummies...). It was to get her out of my hair. The reasoning was simple. The common complaint Mom's had at these paid B-days was that they had to "do all the work"...but often it was Mom jumping in to do the work instead of giving me time to do it myself. So, what a distraction! Now she's the center of attention for all the kids because SHE has the "pot of gold". Kept her out of my hair and off in the gameroom instead of puttering over me because I wasn't doling out the soda and pizza fast enough.

2) I didn't offer many choices. Rather, I'd say... "We have pepperoni and cheese, those are the most popular." And "We have Fruit Punch and Coke"...etc.. This is true "suggestive selling", not the "would you like fries with that" sort that is more common...

Then I'd just deal with the picky kids, or picky parents, individually.

3) I always precut the cake. I had a few managers (one whom eventually got fired that I replaced) who said that was stupid, but no, it's not. Again, back to speed of service. Mom doesn't care about cake cutting (that's for weddings), they care about the candles being blown out.

4) I offered free coffee to the adults, especially the elder guests, after the cake was served. This was included with the package, but most managers downplayed it for stupid cost savings (our coffee was cheap and terrible...so why bother?).

5) I wouldn't try to be the KID'S best friend, rather, I'd try and make the MOM the star. Meaning, for example, take present time (right after the cake). I'd organize all the kids into a circle around the birthday child, and I'd have already set up a semi-organized pile of gifts to pull from. I'd ask Mom and Dad privately if they had a "special gift" they wanted/needed to give in a special way (some did, some didn't, but it's the gesture, cause sometimes when you've saved for months for that new whatever the kid wants, you really want that moment to be special, and I got that). I'd then spend the rest of the time collecting the paper into a trash bag I brought out with me, and the gifts into another, while writing down who gave what gift on a note to deliver to Mom at the end so they can do Thank You notes if they are into that (e.g. "Jenny gave a Barbie Malibu set", that sort of thing).

6) I'd prepare my family early (at 1 hour into the whole 2 hour experience), that we'd need to move them, and work with the manager / seater to preseat them to a new location (we had new parties coming in, and I needed them off my row, but they were still my Guests!). They never minded. I'd box their food early, and help get them moved, help them with the bags to the car, etc...all the while getting ready for the next group.

I made a TON of money doing that same cycle, 20 hours a week, my late Junior, and I really got good at it my Senior year in High School. My tax filing between my FIFA Ref job and that job was around 20k (which, I HATED PAYING FICA!)

Anyhow, my point with the story is that tipping is earned with exceptional service, and should not be viewed as charity.

I earned every tip I got. Lots of servers do not. They do the bare minimum, and fall back on "well, I did everything they asked!"

Nothing I did was difficult, or particularly "bright", it was just that I cared a lot about what I did. And, as I learned when I moved into management, it is something that can be trained and is infectious. And, what I've also learned, from working with tons of people who got "Restaurant Management" degrees and the like, it isn't something you learn in a stale classroom.

When I would train servers, I would tell them, it's not about doing what is asked, it's about doing what they DIDN'T expect! Look your customers in the eye, and more importantly, watch their body language. That says it all.

A classic thing I'd tell bussers/servers, when I'd train them, is a subconscious thing most people do when they are ready for the next course or a box (depending on the venue) they tend to push their dish away and sit back.

It's all minor stuff, but easy stuff IF you pay attention.

A staple of good service to me is if I have to ask for a refill for my drink, or if they notice and bring it to me. If the latter, they get a larger tip. If the former...well, I can be quite chincy (though I still tip).

 

[PhotoDave219]

I worked for a while at a bar as a bouncer (weekend job while I was teaching college, odd story, but I knew the owners well and needed some extra cash).

I was paid in cash.

That's all I'll say.

Small restaurants and bars flirt the laws all the time. And, if ever caught (which is rare) they claim ignorance and being "overwhelmed", then pull one of two cards...if it's the employee, they say "I didn't know, I thought..."...if its the employer, they have an extra card to play "It's just so hard to run a small business."

And the excuse train chugs along. <grin>

Well if the employee is caught, as long as they pay the taxes on it... its all good.

 

[Brewmaster]

Can someone link the opening of reservoir dogs?

 

[NCO91590]

Here's another WDW money saving tip with regards to food - set up a sustainable farm with a herd of animal that produces meat you enjoy. For example, if you enjoy turkey bacon, then you would want a herd of turkeys. Your sustainable farm can be planted and maintained on any of the out of way bits of land that are located around WDW. I have mine on the outskirts of Pop. It is a half acre of lemons, oranges, carrots, guavas, peanuts, limes, and wheat. I augment a CMs income to maintain the farm for me whilst I am out of town. I should note, that anything you want, but aren't growing can be obtained by going on the Behind the Seeds tour and yelling "look over there" at key points during the tour giving you a few precious seconds to "harvest".


You'd need to show your DVC membership card and another piece of ID so they know it is you. So, if you have the same name as your mom, maybe. If you are the same gender and have the same name, but look different than your mom I would discreetly place my finger over the bit of the ID that has the picture of the aforementioned mother on it. If you are a different gender, but your mom has a name that can be made into a masculine name by, say, lopping off the end (Fredette, for example), then you can hold a finger over the picture and another over the letters that feminize the name. If you don't look like your mom, are a different gender, and she doesn't have a name that can be turned into a more masculine form (say, @Laura ) then I would discreetly pickpocket a TiW card from someone who has the exact same name. For example, if your name is Ozbert Hornpipe, all you need to do is befriend another Ozbert Hornpipe and then at some point, steal their TiW card. Of course, if they don't have a TiW card, you may have to talk them into purchasing one.

Meh...this seems like too much work.

 

[George]

Meh...this seems like too much work.

Not as much work as you might think my friend. There is a reason my farm is located on the outskirts of Pop. As reported on this here website, the production of magic bands created a large work force. We can now tap into it since magic band production is no longer "ramping up" but "plateaued". I'm using fancy business terms since this board seems to be populated by Lee Iacocca types (I'm using a modern business success story to impress all the young hipsters).

They are made by a handful of kindergarten aged children of illegal immigrants that live in shanties located just out of eyeshot of Pop Century. They are paid by brief cessations from the continual whippings when the magic band quota is reached. For legal reasons they were incorporated, but for the life of me I can't recall the name either.

 

[Pete256]

this has got WAAAAAY off topic - You can argue till you are blue in the face, but you tip on the entire cost of the check, not just the portion you have to pay over and above the dining plan. If you want to do 15%, which was always a "rule of thumb" then go ahead instead of the suggested 18% & 20% - but not tipping on the whole portion covered by the dining plan is a punk move. I am a CPA and have been through audits of restaurant clients - this may be one of the most poorly understood tax laws on the books (other than use tax in a state) - you pay tax on all your income, tips, salary, etc - if tips reported are lower than 8% of sales, then the employer must close the gap to IRS and it also may flag an audit.

I spoke to Disney yesterday as we just got back a few days ago from a great 1 week trip to Yacht Club with Deluxe DP and we were looking to rebook for 2016 - they verified that appetizers are gone - now they just may have been reading the brochure and the person I talked to did not verify with a true management member, but this alters how we book our trip and are ditching the DDP plan because we don't eat much dessert and it is now a bona fide rip off. We will pay as we go from this point on.

 

[BrerJon]

I think this is a bit of a cluster****, nobody seems to know what's going on. Some people are being told by Disney that apps have indeed gone, while Cast Members are telling other people don't worry, it's a misprint, international brochures are including them... what happens when they get to the parks and find they don't have what they paid for after all?

If Disney doesn't sort this out fast and make an official statement they're going to be in for a world of hurt, this has the potential to cause so many nightmares for them and all it would take is one official clarification on the Parks Blog to clear up any confusion.

It just seems so incompetent, even for Disney, the *only* reasoning I can think is that it must be intentional - apps are still going to be there, which is why they're not changing international brochures, but this is a quiet test - under the guise of a typo - for a couple of months to compare how many people no longer book DLX, then they will give a 'nice surprise' to all those who booked anyway by revealing we still have apps.

Of course if data from the secret test shows no drop in bookings, you can be sure apps will be officially gone for 2017 even if they're not for 2016.

 

[unkadug]

Why are we talking about apps and why would Disney even consider banning them?

They would have to ban all smart devices in order to get rid of apps.

After spending all that money on the "PLUS" system I can't see them banning apps and smart phones.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think this is a bit of a cluster****, nobody seems to know what's going on. Some people are being told by Disney that apps have indeed gone, while Cast Members are telling other people don't worry, it's a misprint, international brochures are including them... what happens when they get to the parks and find they don't have what they paid for after all?

If Disney doesn't sort this out fast and make an official statement they're going to be in for a world of hurt, this has the potential to cause so many nightmares for them and all it would take is one official clarification on the Parks Blog to clear up any confusion.

It just seems so incompetent, even for Disney, the *only* reasoning I can think is that it must be intentional - apps are still going to be there, which is why they're not changing international brochures, but this is a quiet test - under the guise of a typo - for a couple of months to compare how many people no longer book DLX, then they will give a 'nice surprise' to all those who booked anyway by revealing we still have apps.

Of course if data from the secret test shows no drop in bookings, you can be sure apps will be officially gone for 2017 even if they're not for 2016.

Like the EMH firestorm, 'accidentally' forget to include it on TA schedule and watch Social Media/Bookings for results and decide accordingly...