News Disney mask policy at Walt Disney World theme parks

[Andrew C]

Here is what I am saying.

If me and 5 of my vaccinated Friends get together for poker tonight how concerned should I be?

You shouldn't be. I wouldn't be. lol

 

[GimpYancIent]

Dr. Walensky: (11:44)
What we’ve learned in that context is that when we examine the rarer breakthrough infections and we look at the amount of virus in those people, it is pretty similar to the amount of virus in unvaccinated people. We are now continuing to follow those clusters to understand the impact of forward transmission of those vaccinated people. But again, I want to reiterate, we believe the vast majority of transmission is occurring in unvaccinated people and through unvaccinated people. But unlike the Alpha variant that we had back in May, where we didn’t believe that if you were vaccinated, you could transmit further, this is different now with the Delta variant and we’re seeing now that it’s actually possible if you’re rare breakthrough infection that you can transmit further, which is the reason for the change.

No exact numbers but seeing as they have evidence it’s not zero they took steps to limit in areas with really high transmission and areas with a large amount of unwillingly not vaccinated people (school.) If this proves to be true and confirmed expect a roll back nationwide, if other studies dispute this expect this rule to be dropped again.

Don't understand what the big change is? This supposed new guidance change is really not a change but a continuation of something that had been in place just a couple of months ago. It's more of a, supposed, suspension of the elimination of all restrictions recommendations. Masks are not totally gone but are not totally back either.

 

[Andrew C]

Don't understand what the big change is? This supposed new guidance change is really not a change but a continuation of something that had been in place just a couple of months ago. It's more of a, supposed, suspension of the elimination of all restrictions recommendations. Masks are not totally gone but are not totally back either.

They don't know.

 

[Touchdown]

Here is what I am saying.

If me and 5 of my vaccinated Friends get together for poker tonight how concerned should I be?

The guidance for masks is in an indoor public place. Assuming this gathering is at a house, I don’t believe this would apply, especially since all are vaccinated.

 

[Chi84]

In explaining this new guidance which makes a complete about face from guidance they released two months prior, I think it is reasonable to expect a quantification of how they define "rare." If rare means they think 1 in 100k fully vaccinated people can potentially end up to be a spreader there is absolutely no justification for this guidance change. If rare means they think 1 in 100 fully vaccinated people can potentially end up being a spreader then I'll at least be open to discussion.

My suspicion is that the guidance was changed because a highly transmissible variant is causing a huge surge in cases and there is no way to distinguish between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Making everyone wear masks in areas of high transmission will result in less transmission by the unvaccinated.

I believe the initial dropping of masks was done both to reflect the science on lack of transmission by vaccinated people and to encourage confidence in the vaccines by emphasizing that the vaccinated are so fully protected that they no longer need masks. Not enough people got the vaccine and no government or business entities were interested in checking anyone's vaccination status, so everyone just stopped wearing masks.

It probably would have been okay absent the recent data showing that vaccinated people with delta breakthrough cases have enough virus in their upper airway to possibly transmit the virus. Form what I understand, this is different from the initial strains of virus. The CDC director stated very clearly that transmission by vaccinated people is a rare event and that the vast majority of transmission is driven by the unvaccinated. But the data exists, and the CDC has been cautious in its recommendations, so they are changing guidance. I don't believe they would have done so absent the current surge.

Public health agencies recommend what they believe will best protect the public health, so in that sense their recommendations are both scientific and political (in the most general sense). Walensky went into some amount of detail in terms of what type of data they are collecting on breakthrough cases - it's in the Q and A section of the media briefing and is definitely worth a listen. I don't believe I have enough understanding of the science to adequately summarize it.

 

[Trauma]

The guidance for masks is in an indoor public place. Assuming this gathering is at a house, I don’t believe this would apply, especially since all are vaccinated.

That’s has nothing to do with my level of personal risk being around other vaccinated people.

If rare is 1 in 100 - I may want to rethink poker

 

[Touchdown]

That’s has nothing to do with my level of personal risk being around other vaccinated people.

If rare is 1 in 100 - I may want to rethink poker

They did this because there is a chance you could become a silent carrier. There continues to be low risk to you of getting the disease and an infinitesimal risk of getting severe disease. The danger comes to your close contacts. If you interact with immunosuppressed people on a regular basis you might want to change it, children potentially (but they usually don’t get severe disease either,) and it’s totally up to you if you want to change your behavior to protect willing unvaccinated people.

 

[Ayla]

Interestingly, I was doing some stuff with my Disney Visa Rewards a few minutes ago, and at the bottom, there was a blurb about for most recent updates about Disney's covid and face-covering policies to visit the Disney website (with a link attached).

That was not there a week ago.

 

[pdude81]

Interestingly, I was doing some stuff with my Disney Visa Rewards a few minutes ago, and at the bottom, there was a blurb about for most recent updates about Disney's covid and face-covering policies to visit the Disney website (with a link attached).

That was not there a week ago.

I think we all know changes are coming soon from Disney. It's just about exactly what and when.

 

[Ayla]

I think we all know changes are coming soon from Disney. It's just about exactly what and when.

Agreed.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

Here is what I am saying.

If me and 5 of my vaccinated Friends get together for poker tonight how concerned should I be?

Depends if your friends are better at poker than you .

 

[Ayla]

I stand by my earlier assessment we'll know something before this week is over.

 

[Trauma]

Disney has to change policy you can’t ago against the CDC

I would guess it will be Friday afternoon they will try limit the damage to the share price.

 

[Witchy Chick]

We certainly know that cases didn’t skyrocket in Texas when it dropped its mask requirement this spring, despite warnings.

Texas is now back up to 6,600 cases/day. Prior to "Spring surge," they were at 7,000+ cases/day back in February. (Sorry, my snipped pic doesn't include the February spike and 7k cases/day info.)

Source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states/texas

It is interesting I have seen no announcements of businesses restaurants or theme parks requiring masks again indoors (yet). Even schools in our area announced this morning that masks would be optional for kids. I think in most cases and places, people (who are vaccinated for sure) are done with masking

Some school districts in my area (Maryland/Northern Virginia/DC area) have already mandated masks for all students/staff in the Fall (schools start the week before Labor Day here in our neck of the woods, so we're roughly one month out from the start of the school year).

 

[Chip Chipperson]

There were other variables also. No study has been able to be done where it compared masks vs. no masks as the only variable. Nobody can say with any degree of certainty to what degree masks reduce spread.

Well the only real way to do that in order to satisfy hardcore mask deniers would be to expose control groups to the virus and then have volunteers in a controlled environment exposed to either the masked patients or unmasked patients. I don't think too many volunteers would sign up for that. Also, a randomized control trial for such a study could be considered unethical during a pandemic like this. https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87870

In reality, the CDC article I cited is a real-world study that looked at similar locations within a single state so it's as apples-to-apples as you're going to get. It's not like they looked at masked counties in Kansas and unmasked counties in Florida. You can absolutely say with some degree of certainty that masks helped reduce spread when you're comparing similar places within a geographical area with different mask policies. It's just an inconvenient study for those who have a hardcore opposition to mask mandates, so the common response is "but other variables" without ever saying what other variables they think may have impacted the results (vaccines weren't available at that time, so it's not that) and ever giving specifics on what exactly a study they would accept looks like.

Your argument also ignores that there have been numerous lab studies showing that masks can filter small particles the size of this virus.

EPA Researchers Test Effectiveness of Face Masks, Disinfection Methods Against COVID-19 | US EPA

EPA scientists are applying their expertise in aerosol and decontamination research to better understand mask effectiveness, as well as methods for disinfecting personal protective equipment for the public, healthcare workers, and other essential workers.

www.epa.gov

Efficacy of face mask in preventing respiratory virus transmission: A systematic review and meta-analysis - PMC

Conflicting recommendations exist related to whether masks have a protective effect on the spread of respiratory viruses. The Preferred Reporting Items for Systematic Reviews and Meta-Analysis (PRISMA) statement was consulted to report this ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[DisneyCane]

Well the only real way to do that in order to satisfy hardcore mask deniers would be to expose control groups to the virus and then have volunteers in a controlled environment exposed to either the masked patients or unmasked patients. I don't think too many volunteers would sign up for that. Also, a randomized control trial for such a study could be considered unethical during a pandemic like this. https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87870

In reality, the CDC article I cited is a real-world study that looked at similar locations within a single state so it's as apples-to-apples as you're going to get. It's not like they looked at masked counties in Kansas and unmasked counties in Florida. You can absolutely say with some degree of certainty that masks helped reduce spread when you're comparing similar places within a geographical area with different mask policies. It's just an inconvenient study for those who have a hardcore opposition to mask mandates, so the common response is "but other variables" without ever saying what other variables they think may have impacted the results (vaccines weren't available at that time, so it's not that) and ever giving specifics on what exactly a study they would accept looks like.

Your argument also ignores that there have been numerous lab studies showing that masks can filter small particles the size of this virus.

EPA Researchers Test Effectiveness of Face Masks, Disinfection Methods Against COVID-19 | US EPA

EPA scientists are applying their expertise in aerosol and decontamination research to better understand mask effectiveness, as well as methods for disinfecting personal protective equipment for the public, healthcare workers, and other essential workers.

www.epa.gov

Efficacy of face mask in preventing respiratory virus transmission: A systematic review and meta-analysis - PMC

Conflicting recommendations exist related to whether masks have a protective effect on the spread of respiratory viruses. The Preferred Reporting Items for Systematic Reviews and Meta-Analysis (PRISMA) statement was consulted to report this ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The comparison isn't similar if the counties being compared don't have everything else similar. I haven't studied the Kansas response to the pandemic so I don't know the answer but did the mask mandate counties have other restrictions that the non mask mandate counties didn't.

If variables exist, it is too hard to statistically account for the variables because nobody really knows how effective things like 25% capacity indoor dining vs. 50% capacity indoor dining are. Same for other capacity limitations, closures etc. That's why I'm following the curve from Los Angeles County. I believe all of CA is on the same level of restrictions (or lack thereof) at this point. If we compare LA County vs. other similar population density and vaccination level counties, then we should be able to draw a conclusion.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

The comparison isn't similar if the counties being compared don't have everything else similar. I haven't studied the Kansas response to the pandemic so I don't know the answer but did the mask mandate counties have other restrictions that the non mask mandate counties didn't.

If variables exist, it is too hard to statistically account for the variables because nobody really knows how effective things like 25% capacity indoor dining vs. 50% capacity indoor dining are. Same for other capacity limitations, closures etc. That's why I'm following the curve from Los Angeles County. I believe all of CA is on the same level of restrictions (or lack thereof) at this point. If we compare LA County vs. other similar population density and vaccination level counties, then we should be able to draw a conclusion.

So the lab studies don't convince you, either?

 

[Rob562]

That’s has nothing to do with my level of personal risk being around other vaccinated people.

If rare is 1 in 100 - I may want to rethink poker

Here in Massachusetts, one of the most-vaccinated states in the U.S., we're having a bit of an outbreak out on Cape Cod. Last I saw we're above 800 cases traced back to the first couple weeks of July in Provincetown. About 2/3 of those cases are Massachusetts residents. I personally know 4 people who are among those cases, all vaccinated, though they're showing only minor symptoms.

Only a couple venues in town we're requiring proof of vaccination. Mask mandates across the state have followed CDC guidelines of "wear a mask if unvaccinated", optional for those vaccinated. Masks really weren't seen at any bar, restaurant or club.

(The P-town town council has since instituted a mandatory indoor mask order)

"Miss Delta", as some of my friends have started referring to it, is not messing around. If we can get a sudden outbreak in a state where 74.3% of adults 18+ are fully vaccinated, I shudder to think what will happen in the states with vaccination rates in the low-40's.

Edit to add: As of last Friday, when the confirmed cases were at 430, 69% of them were in fully-vaccinated people.

-Rob

 

[Trauma]

Here in Massachusetts, one of the most-vaccinated states in the U.S., we're having a bit of an outbreak out on Cape Cod. Last I saw we're above 800 cases traced back to the first couple weeks of July in Provincetown. About 2/3 of those cases are Massachusetts residents. I personally know 4 people who are among those cases, all vaccinated, though they're showing only minor symptoms.

Only a couple venues in town we're requiring proof of vaccination. Mask mandates across the state have followed CDC guidelines of "wear a mask if unvaccinated", optional for those vaccinated. Masks really weren't seen at any bar, restaurant or club.

(The P-town town council has since instituted a mandatory indoor mask order)

"Miss Delta", as some of my friends have started referring to it, is not messing around. If we can get a sudden outbreak in a state where 74.3% of adults 18+ are fully vaccinated, I shudder to think what will happen in the states with vaccination rates in the low-40's.

-Rob

I get that your vaccinated friends where vaccinated and still tested positive.

What I’m wondering is if they caught it from other vaccinated people.

 

[Rob562]

I get that your vaccinated friends where vaccinated and still tested positive.

What I’m wondering is if they caught it from other vaccinated people.

In a situation like that it's likely impossible to trace back to find a "patient zero", but I just edited my post to add the stat that a few days ago 69% of the positive cases were in fully-vaccinated people.

So yes, it's not inconceivable that the vaccinated caught it from the unvaccinated.

-Rob