News Disney Lakeshore Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[monothingie]

It’s possible?…len would have a better opinion.

My thought is what the complete mishandling of APs (more on that later) has done is reduce the frequency of repeat visits by their core clientele in more damaging fashion

I know DVCs that now burn points on room sizes they don’t need for less trips.

Or go for 5-7 days and get 2 or 3 days of tickets.

Fools like Stupor will say “good for Disney…higher revenue each day”

False. No, no, no, no, no and no.

The point of DVC was not to make bank at the gate. It’s to get you into crystal palace or your 4th $11 beer at hurling suitcase or at world of Disney.

I worked with a dvc GM. Period.

So a decline in any attendance has shockwaves. Include dvc sales and frequency of visits.

But the real issue with APs…one of my biggest pet peeves in a volume of them…is that they need them RIGHT NOW and the sales are bad.
And why? Because they planned it this way long ago. They said internally and to TAs, etc as far back as 10 years ago that the discounting was going away.
And why? The brand loyalty made them irrelevant.

Ahhh…smart business, right?
The problem is the MINUTE demand went down at all that theory was done. Over. FAIL.

And as we see…if you go too far…you don’t always get a walk back.

My estimate is to reverse the attendance trend they will need 40% discounts on most things and maybe as much as 60%.

They are not doing well here. But let’s gloss it - shall we?

You feeling alright?
Do you need to lay down?
Maybe an $18 Rose Gold Earadecent Margarita?

They aren't capable of any of those things you coughed up.

Bad word of mouth hurt them and continues to hurt them with the normies and the fed-up. No amount of blue sky nonsense, fake PR, and a D23 dog and pony show will bring back the ones that walked away.

 

[Disstevefan1]

You feeling alright?
Do you need to lay down?
Maybe an $18 Rose Gold Earadecent Margarita?

They aren't capable of any of those things you coughed up.

Bad word of mouth hurt them and continues to hurt them with the normies and the fed-up. No amount of blue sky nonsense, fake PR, and a D23 dog and pony show will bring back the ones that walked away.

Many have walked away, Disney got their money. There are more right behind them who don't know any better.

 

[Dranth]

My estimate is to reverse the attendance trend they will need 40% discounts on most things and maybe as much as 60%.

They are not doing well here. But let’s gloss it - shall we?

We all know there wasn't enough capacity to support the 2018/19 crowd levels. It was a terrible experience with very little slow times to pick from throughout the year.

Before you say it, yes, it is absolutely their fault for not building capacity to meet that demand. No disagreement here, but the current reality is they CAN'T increase attendance much without making the whole place miserable again. At least not until they finish doing some updating to increase usage of what they have AND building of additional capacity.

Thankfully they seem to be heading that way though we need to see movement before anyone gets too excited.

Don't get me wrong, they can't let it collapse by jacking prices another 20% either but a 40%-60% discount would likely open the flood gates.

 

[Fort Camper]

PLEASE DO NOT BUILD REFLECTIONS OR ANY RESORT IN THE FORT!! IT HAS BEEN A SPECIAL PLACE FOR US SINCE IT OPENED. LISTEN TO THE CAMPERS THE LODGE IS CLOSE ENOUGH! WHY NOT PUT WATERFRONT CAMPSITES THERE?

 

[CastAStone]

PLEASE DO NOT BUILD REFLECTIONS OR ANY RESORT IN THE FORT!! IT HAS BEEN A SPECIAL PLACE FOR US SINCE IT OPENED. LISTEN TO THE CAMPERS THE LODGE IS CLOSE ENOUGH! WHY NOT PUT WATERFRONT CAMPSITES THERE?

You may be looking for https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/help/email/

I would suggest using sentence case in your email.

 

[Disstevefan1]

PLEASE DO NOT BUILD REFLECTIONS OR ANY RESORT IN THE FORT!! IT HAS BEEN A SPECIAL PLACE FOR US SINCE IT OPENED. LISTEN TO THE CAMPERS THE LODGE IS CLOSE ENOUGH! WHY NOT PUT WATERFRONT CAMPSITES THERE?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We all know there wasn't enough capacity to support the 2018/19 crowd levels. It was a terrible experience with very little slow times to pick from throughout the year.

Before you say it, yes, it is absolutely their fault for not building capacity to meet that demand. No disagreement here, but the current reality is they CAN'T increase attendance much without making the whole place miserable again. At least not until they finish doing some updating to increase usage of what they have AND building of additional capacity.

Thankfully they seem to be heading that way though we need to see movement before anyone gets too excited.

Don't get me wrong, they can't let it collapse by jacking prices another 20% either but a 40%-60% discount would likely open the flood gates.

We’re way of course on this thread

But read LakeTravis’s up to date comments in the attendance thread…

Crowds are non -existent and it STILL sucks right now

They only have 1 way to fix this and alleviate the pressure on the parks that is not going away.

Having “only” 55,000,0000 in parks with capacity for 45-50,000,000 comfortably will not provide much relief over 60,000,000

And Will turn people away…and will cause price increases that turn more people away…
…and make less profits

It’s “hells circle”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

PLEASE DO NOT BUILD REFLECTIONS OR ANY RESORT IN THE FORT!! IT HAS BEEN A SPECIAL PLACE FOR US SINCE IT OPENED. LISTEN TO THE CAMPERS THE LODGE IS CLOSE ENOUGH! WHY NOT PUT WATERFRONT CAMPSITES THERE?

I don’t think they’ll ever build “reflections”…that’s a terrible idea

But more makeshift dvc? I’m sorry to say that’s all but certain

 

[Disstevefan1]

"Its MOBBED in the parks, the parks need more capacity"
"Attendance is down, we cant spend more money on attractions"
"But its MOBBED in the parks, the parks need more capacity"
But attendance is down, we cant spend more money on attractions"
. . .

 

[Disstevefan1]

"Its MOBBED in the parks, the parks need more capacity"
"Attendance is down, we cant spend more money on attractions"
"But its MOBBED in the parks, the parks need more capacity"
But attendance is down, we cant spend more money on attractions"
. . .

Replying to my own post with a solution!!!!!

Spoiler: SOLUTION

GO TO UNIVERSAL

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

"Its MOBBED in the parks, the parks need more capacity"
"Attendance is down, we cant spend more money on attractions"
"But its MOBBED in the parks, the parks need more capacity"
But attendance is down, we cant spend more money on attractions"
. . .

Same culprit for both those “by design”problems

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Realistically, is there a solution at this point?

Major overhauls to the parks without 5 year builds and ballyhooing.

People won’t book “special trips” to go on the stuff…but word will spread that there’s more than enough to do and the loyalty will return.

That’s how they got there in the first place. You went for the “package”…not big thunder mountain.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Major overhauls to the parks without 5 year builds and ballyhooing.

This is probably the big stumbling block. It feels like they talk about stuff for 5 years before putting a shovel in the ground.

To be honest, with EPIC opening its probably best they wait to see what happens and take the L for 2025 and probably 2026.

 

[networkpro]

So at what point will the park capacity equal the maximum room resort and dvc occupancy?

 

[Disstevefan1]

So at what point will the park capacity equal the maximum room resort and dvc occupancy?

Spoiler

Never!

 

[monothingie]

Many have walked away, Disney got their money. There are more right behind them who don't know any better.

And that number gets smaller and smaller with each price increase.

Disney has a serious brand problem and it's not getting better.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is probably the big stumbling block. It feels like they talk about stuff for 5 years before putting a shovel in the ground.

To be honest, with EPIC opening its probably best they wait to see what happens and take the L for 2025 and probably 2026.

A good dose of market share loss will turn that ship around fast.

Why do you think think they did this $60 bil stuff? Other than to save Bob’s can?

It’s a cover for them to say “we’re fixing it…” for losses I think they know are coming. They know how over leveraged their customers are…

It’s smart…but it’s also reactive and that’s been a major flaw in Orlando

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So at what point will the park capacity equal the maximum room resort and dvc occupancy?

Kind of an irrelevant question because there are 500 hotels and hoards of rentals beyond 32830

 

[Disstevefan1]

And that number gets smaller and smaller with each price increase.

Disney has a serious brand problem and it's not getting better.

I agree with a brand problem.
May I use my Disney rationalization.

I equate a Disney fan to a sports fan -
We love our team.
We SPEND MONEY on our team on merch, going to games, some they lose.
We are loyal to our team yet we scream at the TV when they are doing bad.
We are critical of the ownership, management, players when they are in a slump.
We never give up on our team, yet we are always critical of our team.
Then they win a game and we are happy again.

As a Disney fan, after we get a win or two, we will be happy again.

 

[monothingie]

I agree with a brand problem.
May I use my Disney rationalization.

I equate a Disney fan to a sports fan -
We love our team.
We SPEND MONEY on our team on merch, going to games, some they lose.
We are loyal to our team yet we scream at the TV when they are doing bad.
We are critical of the ownership, management, players when they are in a slump.
We never give up on our team, yet we are always critical of our team.
Then they win a game and we are happy again.

As a Disney fan, after we get a win or two, we will be happy again.

We need new coach, GM, and owner.