News Disney Lakeshore Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[DVCakaCarlF]

My insiders tell me 100% “The Villas at _____”

...you meant DVC, right? They’ve been busy these last 32 years otherwise

Yes, I assume DVC.

 

[nickys]

I like the option of being able to rent it out(never have done it, and honestly more likely to just use RCI) but at the same time I am no fool to know that it also creates less availability for actual owners with everyone renting out points. Maybe the solution is to limit the amount of rentable points, or number of non-owner reservations?

Before renting became a big thing, people with left over points would simply lose them. When we first bought, we wasted our first year’s worth of points because we couldn’t use them. We lost another year’s worth later on when we had to cancel our planned visit due to MIL’s illness.

If people now have an option to at least get something for those points, that’s not a bad thing. I rented out last year’s points which we couldn’t use, and thanks to the recent closure and current travel restrictions I’ll have to do with my banked points next year.

So the apparent “lack of availability” due to renting is because people now have a way to make use of the points.

The really big players in the “owning enough points to rent out” group bought those points in the last recession and have been doing very well since. It isn’t a new thing. The recent lack of availability is due more to the over-inflated selling of the cabins and bungalows coupled with lots of very small contracts

Any attempt to limit renting would also prevent you from allowing a friend or family member to stay there without you. They can’t do anything about the big players anyway, they’re grandfathered in to the TOS that allows you to rent out points. You are limited as to how many reservations you can rent out, and they do police that - any more than 10 bookings in a year will result in an audit to prove they are for your personal use (including friends & family).

 

[nickys]

From the DVC site:

Q.
As a Disney Vacation Club Member, can I rent my Vacation Points?
A.
Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

Of course, the problem is simple. Is DVC actually enforcing this rule? I think I read somewhere that DVC considers someone that rents their points out 20 times in a year to be conducting it as a business. I would have set the bar far lower - like no more than 3.

If you book more than 10 (?) reservations a year not in your name you will be asked to prove your “relationship“ to your guests. Of course, there would be ways around that.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

If you book more than 10 (?) reservations a year not in your name you will be asked to prove your “relationship“ to your guests. Of course, there would be ways around that.

I'm not sure of the exact number, but thought I had seen 20 bandied about as the number that would kick in an audit. 10 would be better, and I would even make it less. I have no problem with people renting points that they cannot use. That seems totally fair to me.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

From the DVC site:

Q.
As a Disney Vacation Club Member, can I rent my Vacation Points?
A.
Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

Of course, the problem is simple. Is DVC actually enforcing this rule? I think I read somewhere that DVC considers someone that rents their points out 20 times in a year to be conducting it as a business. I would have set the bar far lower - like no more than 3.

Right...but if you rent out a studio - especially at one of the higher point locations - 19 times a year for a week...it could be like 3,000 points.

They know it’s going on they’re tolerating it. The problem is why?

Could it be because it’s driving the price up AND they know renters will buy more of the stuff that longtime DVCers have little interest in?

Like 6 character buffets a week?

 

[trainplane3]

You know what grinds my gears? Spending 40k on Poly and SS contracts only to have to pay extra for daily towels. Lol.

Seriously though, it kinda blows.

AFWIW, I took a solo day trip to the parks in March and took the skyliner to Riviera for a quick walkabout. Result? Meh. Felt like a mix of a Hilton and Vegas casino resort.

I was in the Imagination lounge back in February and one of the DVC reps asked if I was going to add Riviera to the account. I said no because it felt like a low effort hotel with some Mickey stuff shoved in it. They surprisingly agreed and called it an "Ikea and someotherhotelhere combination" and they didn't blame me. I can't remember which hotel chain they compared it to but it was quite funny.

 

[note2001]

Before renting became a big thing, people with left over points would simply lose them. When we first bought, we wasted our first year’s worth of points because we couldn’t use them. We lost another year’s worth later on when we had to cancel our planned visit due to MIL’s illness.

If people now have an option to at least get something for those points, that’s not a bad thing. I rented out last year’s points which we couldn’t use, and thanks to the recent closure and current travel restrictions I’ll have to do with my banked points next year.

So the apparent “lack of availability” due to renting is because people now have a way to make use of the points.

The really big players in the “owning enough points to rent out” group bought those points in the last recession and have been doing very well since. It isn’t a new thing. The recent lack of availability is due more to the over-inflated selling of the cabins and bungalows coupled with lots of very small contracts

Any attempt to limit renting would also prevent you from allowing a friend or family member to stay there without you. They can’t do anything about the big players anyway, they’re grandfathered in to the TOS that allows you to rent out points. You are limited as to how many reservations you can rent out, and they do police that - any more than 10 bookings in a year will result in an audit to prove they are for your personal use (including friends & family).

We can thank the internet for the upsurge in rentals and people learning how to use up every last point. Big contract owners aren't making as large of a difference as you may think. Places like dvcrequest or dvcrental etc have made it very easy for all owners of all knowledge to rent. While they started off with several thousand points most of what they do is on other people's contracts. I happen to know David personally, so don't hate on him, but I do hate that people have learned of him. I also won't rent though him.

 

[marni1971]

If I recall correctly, the soil under this piece of land was found to be unsuitable for supporting the weight of a large hotel. Pending some kind of technological breakthrough in building material, we'll likely never see anything substantial constructed here..

Yes. They tried one Venitian and two Mediterraneans.

But the site has been looked at again recently. Though not in the last 3 months.

 

[rle4lunch]

I was in the Imagination lounge back in February and one of the DVC reps asked if I was going to add Riviera to the account. I said no because it felt like a low effort hotel with some Mickey stuff shoved in it. They surprisingly agreed and called it an "Ikea and someotherhotelhere combination" and they didn't blame me. I can't remember which hotel chain they compared it to but it was quite funny.

Very low effort on the Pixie dust scale. The Disney theme is as basic as Paradise Pier (which is the cheapest damned overlay in all the parks IMO). It's funny that they described it that way, and sad. At least it had that new Holiday Inn Express smell inside. Definitely didn't have any wow factor on me.

 

[note2001]

Today's Disney only wants to create rooms to rent/sell that require minimal cost to build. I'm not into materials or construction analysis, but if someone here knows, please tell us the cost difference to build out something like AKL-Jambo verses Riviera. I'm betting it's huge.

I'll go back and second the person who said they should just turn this field into more campsites. It doesn't get cheaper to build than that. Right up Disney's alley. They could even charge a premium for the water view and proximity to smelling viewing the stables.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Yes. They tried one Venitian and two Mediterraneans.

But the site has been looked at again recently. Though not in the last 3 months.

I thought you mentioned that they had found some sort of chemical that can be injected into the ground to make it more suitable for building? Though of course with all the cutbacks, they certainly won't be doing anything there anytime soon anyway.

 

[marni1971]

I thought you mentioned that they had found some sort of chemical that can be injected into the ground to make it more suitable for building? Though of course with all the cutbacks, they certainly won't be doing anything there anytime soon anyway.

Not me. But I agree.

 

[monothingie]

I thought you mentioned that they had found some sort of chemical that can be injected into the ground to make it more suitable for building? Though of course with all the cutbacks, they certainly won't be doing anything there anytime soon anyway.

It's like history repeating itself.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

Don't think that will ever happen. There was a resort themed to Venice planned for the area between the Poly and Contemporary in the original designs for WDW. When Eisner was CEO, a resort themed to the Greek isles was planned for the same area but was never built.

The idea of a Greek isle-themed resort is the first concept in a while that I could see being a beautiful addition to the resort.

 

[Bocabear]

Not me. But I agree.

Seems like in this day and age they can stabilize anything if they want to... All of Hong Kong Disneyland is on in-fill in what used to be water... so it can happen....they just have to want to do it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Today's Disney only wants to create rooms to rent/sell that require minimal cost to build. I'm not into materials or construction analysis, but if someone here knows, please tell us the cost difference to build out something like AKL-Jambo verses Riviera. I'm betting it's huge.

Even accounting for the premium that comes with height, I’d put my money on Riviera costing more. Disney isn’t really cheap, they’re inefficient and wasteful. They’re costs to get something designed and built are completely out of control.

I thought you mentioned that they had found some sort of chemical that can be injected into the ground to make it more suitable for building? Though of course with all the cutbacks, they certainly won't be doing anything there anytime soon anyway.

There are a number of different strategies to stabilize the site that could be employed depending on the specific conditions of the site. Tangentially related, to show what can be done, Universal’s new Bourne show utilizes a basement that was dug in an existing theater.

 

[carolina_yankee]

From the DVC site:

Q.
As a Disney Vacation Club Member, can I rent my Vacation Points?
A.
Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

Of course, the problem is simple. Is DVC actually enforcing this rule? I think I read somewhere that DVC considers someone that rents their points out 20 times in a year to be conducting it as a business. I would have set the bar far lower - like no more than 3.

If you book more than 10 (?) reservations a year not in your name you will be asked to prove your “relationship“ to your guests. Of course, there would be ways around that.

Right...but if you rent out a studio - especially at one of the higher point locations - 19 times a year for a week...it could be like 3,000 points.

They know it’s going on they’re tolerating it. The problem is why?

Could it be because it’s driving the price up AND they know renters will buy more of the stuff that longtime DVCers have little interest in?

Like 6 character buffets a week?

The POS (Public Offering Statement) specifically permits renting. There are questions as to whether or not Disney can legitimatley curtail it in any way as what constitutes “commercial” is simply an arbitrary number. There are owenrs who would be willing to sue if Disney canceled a resevation, claiming it was a commercial rental.

Disney doens’t even know what reservations are rented and what aren’t, as they are not a part of the transaction. Likewise, it’s against the POS transfer points for money, but people do it all the time. Disney has no way of knowing if the requeste transfer was for compensation or not.

The most I’ve heard of is some owners getting a letter around their 20th booking in somebody else’s name pointing out the policy. As for having to proove a relaitonship after a 10th booking in somebody else’s name, that would also be suspect. I would be surprised if Disney did more than accept the owner’s word that the rservation was name was a co-worker, cousin, best friend from High School, etc. Owners are free to let anybody they wish use their points.

 

[britain]

Seems like in this day and age they can stabilize anything if they want to... All of Hong Kong Disneyland is on in-fill in what used to be water... so it can happen....they just have to want to do it.

Everything's negotiable, Pee Wee.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

The POS (Public Offering Statement) specifically permits renting. There are questions as to whether or not Disney can legitimatley curtail it in any way as what constitutes “commercial” is simply an arbitrary number. There are owenrs who would be willing to sue if Disney canceled a resevation, claiming it was a commercial rental.

Disney doens’t even know what reservations are rented and what aren’t, as they are not a part of the transaction. Likewise, it’s against the POS transfer points for money, but people do it all the time. Disney has no way of knowing if the requeste transfer was for compensation or not.

The most I’ve heard of is some owners getting a letter around their 20th booking in somebody else’s name pointing out the policy. As for having to proove a relaitonship after a 10th booking in somebody else’s name, that would also be suspect. I would be surprised if Disney did more than accept the owner’s word that the rservation was name was a co-worker, cousin, best friend from High School, etc. Owners are free to let anybody they wish use their points.

Good point. They may not have much of a legal leg to stand on.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Can't do that. We own the contract to those points and are allowed to use them as we see fit so long as they're within the rules set by the contract and aren't causing other problems (bad renters could push an owner in this direction).

Now, they could add some verbiage to the contract for newer sales, but I've not heard of them doing so.

They are your points, if you want to rent them out, that’s your business.