News Disney Lakeshore Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[MisterPenguin]

Honest question: Wasn't Riviera sales poor at first?

 

[CastAStone]

Honest question: Wasn't Riviera sales poor at first?

No. It sold 777K points in its first 11 months vs 764K for CCV and 858K for PVB. Then a pandemic happened.

CFW sold 12K points last month which puts it on pace to sell out in the late 2030s.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Honest question: Wasn't Riviera sales poor at first?

For me, the appeal of being a DVC owner is the ease with which I can stay at many different deluxe resorts.

The amenities I like are at all of the other DVCs but not the cabins. People who like the cabins already do not want or need the amenities of the other DVCs. So why would an existing DVC owner add on here and why would a cabins fan want that DVC flexibility to go to resorts they don’t prefer?

If they set a reasonable rate for cash rooms here, I’m sure those will book.

I think Reflections would do better as a DVC if it had its own dedicated transportation and the amenities other DVC resorts have.

 

[CastAStone]

Does anyone happen to know what class of resort sells best at WDW? What do they even need more of?

Those are two different questions. Proximity to MK has led to faster sales recently. I think what they most quickly could sell more of today is Crescent Lake, but they’ll get a whole bunch of that back in 17 years.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Those are two different questions. Proximity to MK has led to faster sales recently. I think what they most quickly could sell more of today is Crescent Lake, but they’ll get a whole bunch of that back in 17 years.

Is there room for a Villas at Disney’s Yacht Club Resort? I presume not or we’d have one surely. I want to say I read that they could add more to the BCV one day.

 

[TeriofTerror]

Honest question: Wasn't Riviera sales poor at first?

I'd say controversial due to the idiotic resale restrictions.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I'd say controversial due to the idiotic resale restrictions.

I would never buy there because of them. What an awful investment.

We started with a Boulder Ridge contract and certainly intend to keep it through 2042. When we added Bay Lake, while we have no intention of selling, the ability to do so and easily find a buyer was a selling point. 36 years is a long time.

 

[eddie104]

The Cabins debacle (and by extension the "Reflectionization" of the campground) shows how tone deaf current WDW management is and underscores the complete lack of understanding they have in their own products and customer base.

If sales are indeed poor, a sizable portion of your traditional DVC customers, who prefer amenities and convenience, aren't buying in because of the perceived lack of amenities and convenience.

And a large portion of Ft. Wilderness "cabin" fans (like our family who loved the property and made multiple week-long visits each year for more than a decade), are completely turned off because the entire theme and much of what we loved about the place has been stripped away.

I'm not sure the first subset of guests could be won over by this project no matter what direction it took.

But WDW had a golden opportunity to convert a ton of cabin fans to happy DVC customers if they had just kept the theme of the cabins and campground intact.

Heck, I've always been super wary of DVC but would have signed up in a heartbeat if they'd just updated the existing cabins (or replaced them with newer versions of the same).

Ft. Wilderness isn't for everyone, but those who do like it are pretty passionate about it.

Maybe Disney has data to back up its decision, but building something that manages to alienate both sets of potential customers is certainly a head-scratcher.

While I’m very much mixed on the new cabins I think your post is a little overkill.

This DVC mandate is definitely something I don’t agree with from TDO and I hope it ends soon.

They are going to hit a brick wall and realize they shouldn’t put all their eggs in one basket.

 

[mysto]

When I first heard about the Riviera resale restrictions, I thought to myself they couldn't be resold at all. Basically if I buy this I'm trapped I have to keep it. And yet so many agreed to be trapped and paid for the priviledge. No wonder every resort includes DVC, the buyers are apparently in a panic.

 

[Indy_UK]

How far away are the new DVC cabins and the reflections site? I wonder if they will add amenities then to drum up some sales for the Cabins as these are failing bad

 

[monothingie]

Does anyone happen to know what class of resort sells best at WDW? What do they even need more of?

A large portion of Port Orleans, Coronado, All Stars, are closed off. Grand Floridian, AKL, and Boardwalk Inn are perpetually vacant. Saratoga, OKW and Kidani are never tough to get a DVC reservation.

The most successful are the ones that they don’t discount.

 

[Virtual Toad]

How far away are the new DVC cabins and the reflections site? I wonder if they will add amenities then to drum up some sales for the Cabins as these are failing bad

They're essentially at opposite ends of the campground (the Reflections site is close to Pioneer Hall where River Country used to be) so not a quick stroll over from one to the other for those who don't enjoy a casual walk, bus or golf cart. It looks like new construction at the Meadows Pool area in the center of the campground may supply new amenities but no one knows for sure.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

No. It sold 777K points in its first 11 months vs 764K for CCV and 858K for PVB. Then a pandemic happened.

CFW sold 12K points last month which puts it on pace to sell out in the late 2030s.

CFW is also starting with insanely high maintenance fees that will only get higher. At $12.40 a point (or whatever it is, I know it’s close to that), the delta between cash booking price and maintenance dues cost is just not big enough, and that delta will only get smaller, to justify the insane upfront buy in cost. Unlike other timeshares, DVC doesn’t hard-sell its product enough to get suckers to buy given that math. Maybe DVC will start emulating the other players out there and increase its sleaze levels enough to sell this turd, but until then, it’s a turd.

 

[Phicinfan]

For me, the appeal of being a DVC owner is the ease with which I can stay at many different deluxe resorts.

The amenities I like are at all of the other DVCs but not the cabins. People who like the cabins already do not want or need the amenities of the other DVCs. So why would an existing DVC owner add on here and why would a cabins fan want that DVC flexibility to go to resorts they don’t prefer?

If they set a reasonable rate for cash rooms here, I’m sure those will book.

I think Reflections would do better as a DVC if it had its own dedicated transportation and the amenities other DVC resorts have.

This will be key, they will need a seperate boat run to MK, as well as some other separate bus or ground transportation.

I am a HUGE fan of Wilderness lodge, especially to be able to hop on a boat and go directly to MK. That and the greater privacy to me would make Reflections pretty popular, as long as it has all the key amenities.

 

[MagicRat]

As someone who’s family enjoys taking a boat to the campground to ride the horses and the canoes and has DVC points but plan to purchase no more, this is great for us. The cabins are relatively cheap and add even more options for our three non direct, pre blocked-out blue card DVC purchases.

 

[deeevo]

How far away are the new DVC cabins and the reflections site? I wonder if they will add amenities then to drum up some sales for the Cabins as these are failing bad

A golf cart ride away.

 

[MR.Dis]

The Cabins debacle (and by extension the "Reflectionization" of the campground) shows how tone deaf current WDW management is and underscores the complete lack of understanding they have in their own products and customer base.

If sales are indeed poor, a sizable portion of your traditional DVC customers, who prefer amenities and convenience, aren't buying in because of the perceived lack of amenities and convenience.

And a large portion of Ft. Wilderness "cabin" fans (like our family who loved the property and made multiple week-long visits each year for more than a decade), are completely turned off because the entire theme and much of what we loved about the place has been stripped away.

I'm not sure the first subset of guests could be won over by this project no matter what direction it took.

But WDW had a golden opportunity to convert a ton of cabin fans to happy DVC customers if they had just kept the theme of the cabins and campground intact.

Heck, I've always been super wary of DVC but would have signed up in a heartbeat if they'd just updated the existing cabins (or replaced them with newer versions of the same).

Ft. Wilderness isn't for everyone, but those who do like it are pretty passionate about it.

Maybe Disney has data to back up its decision, but building something that manages to alienate both sets of potential customers is certainly a head-scratcher.

I agree to some of this. In my opinion the whole purpose of the Cabins was to attract pet owners to buy in. We will see but right now it appears they over estimated the draw for a pet friendly DVC.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Probably a good idea to sell what they got first…trailers don’t sell themselves

 

[HauntedPirate]

"I liked it better as an abandoned water park" - John Hench. Maybe.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I have no idea how TWDC moves around/crunches it financials, but the original “cabins” manufactured homes very well themed to look like cabins I presume needed to be refurbished based on some Disney calculations.

Maybe the accountants said, “Since we need to refurbish these anyway, let’s replace them with DVCs the money spent is against Disney’s DCV company which makes truckloads of money and could possibly bring down that income for tax purposes, and these are now DVCs which Disney loves; huge buy in, and maintenance fees for 50 years or so, and if a non DVCer wants to stay there, the nightly rates are huge, Disney wins again.