Disney Labor Shortage

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
This is proven false over and over when you talk to people doing actual hiring. You think $19/hr for jobs anyone can just walk into are not paying well?

People are getting $1500 hiring bonuses... for jobs that pay roughly $500 a week... and they can't even get people to apply. In a market 10months ago those very same workers would break down a door to get a $14/hr job... vs the typical $10/hr.

There is very much a labor shortage... Now is there a body shortage? No, but apparently people have better things to do or think themselves above such work.

Resort towns are crippled with the shortage of workers. You can make several hundred dollars A DAY - still can't get help. Why?

Truth is many markets have been relying on importing seasonal labor from international students for years - why? Because our domestic young adult workforce won't do the work anymore. And it's not these workers displacing domestic workers - because now, those domestic workers aren't showing up either!

For instance my community can't even keep it's pool open during the week right now due to lack of staff. Jobs that normally would be filled by students. But they don't come out to work anymore and the international students are still unable to come in force this year.

BTW... they are paying $18/hr to be a community pool lifeguard... no prior experience needed.
Growing up going to Ocean City NJ during our non-Disney years, you couldn't help notice the Irish accents from the young people working various service jobs along the boardwalk. Visiting as an adult, I started noticing more of what sounded like eastern European accents, and if you asked, them mostly came from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine. I don't think these workers were "exploited" as such, because most were only there to make money for the summer then return home with a nice wad of cash. The reason why they recruited so many of these foreign teenagers and young adults was because they needed them fill the jobs for the entire summer season, which cuts significantly into the typical US university schedule.
 

dmw

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I wonder how many "unskilled" workers have moved from entry level positions in fast food, retail, restaurants, etc. to delivery services (DoorDash, etc.) or ridesharing (Uber, etc.)? The pandemic certainly accelerated this new (and now large) set of job opportunities that was just coming into play pre-Covid.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Resort towns are crippled because of the lack of J-1 visas, so they don't have as many foreign workers to exploit.
Read what I wrote again... I addressed this. The reason for the J-1 influx (and viability) is the lack of local workers.

You think employers like having to offer housing, pay agencies, etc vs paying local teens to do the same work? And wait staff don't earn different tips based on their country of origin...
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Also there's a cultural shift of the younger generations toward entrepreneurialism

I'll shorten it for you... There is a cultural shift that they think they should get more for doing less.. and that people owe them a great living. Add into that 'careers' like being an influencer, doing youtube videos, scalping retail, etc... when you see people doing that, why would you want to do a job where someone tells you what to do, and you have to be somewhere on someone else's schedule, etc?

Work ethic is in the toilet
People skills are way down
Entitlement is way up
Buoyed by movements that condition people to blame others rather than look at self-responsibility
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Growing up going to Ocean City NJ during our non-Disney years, you couldn't help notice the Irish accents from the young people working various service jobs along the boardwalk. Visiting as an adult, I started noticing more of what sounded like eastern European accents, and if you asked, them mostly came from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine. I don't think these workers were "exploited" as such, because most were only there to make money for the summer then return home with a nice wad of cash. The reason why they recruited so many of these foreign teenagers and young adults was because they needed them fill the jobs for the entire summer season, which cuts significantly into the typical US university schedule.

Read what I wrote again... I addressed this. The reason for the J-1 influx (and viability) is the lack of local workers.

You think employers like having to offer housing, pay agencies, etc vs paying local teens to do the same work? And wait staff don't earn different tips based on their country of origin...
Wildwood and cape may have leaned exclusively on the J-1s for quite a long time. So it’s a burden to not have that kinda access.

I can think of another spot where they rock prolly 8,000-12,000 similar type works all year long...and that’s hard to have replaced when it’s become firm policy
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Growing up going to Ocean City NJ during our non-Disney years, you couldn't help notice the Irish accents from the young people working various service jobs along the boardwalk. Visiting as an adult, I started noticing more of what sounded like eastern European accents, and if you asked, them mostly came from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine. I don't think these workers were "exploited" as such, because most were only there to make money for the summer then return home with a nice wad of cash. The reason why they recruited so many of these foreign teenagers and young adults was because they needed them fill the jobs for the entire summer season, which cuts significantly into the typical US university schedule.

Yes, even back in the 80s and 90s, it was very common for European Students to use their student status to get visas to come work in the US for 6months or so, then take the rest of the time to travel and enjoy. They were a perennial thing at the Atlantic Beaches - but they were still largely a small, self-organized portion of the labor pool.

As labor got more and more difficult to fill, the opportunity formed for companies to work as brokers and work to connect employers with prospective labor pools recruited from Europe. Add in the fall of the USSR, and you saw the increase in eastern euorpean students too. The agencies actually go overseas, recruit, and interview people in Europe. The agencies help organize housing, visas, hiring, etc. The model becomes so effective that it has grown to include other seasonal help like lifeguarding - another market that used to be filled almost exclusively with local HS/College aged kids.

These people were not displacing workers - they were backfilling. Where the 'exploitation' comes in is how the companies optimize to cut their expenses. Poor housing, crowded housing, over promising, etc. But the employers are not getting 'cheaper labor' - they are having to pay more to get this to work.

It's pretty common now for the big employers in OC MD to have to offer housing opportunities to get labor in town because housing has gotten so competitive with organized labor brokers taking up huge swaths of properties (plus, the removal of many properties as old structures get torn down for new, higher priced RE development).

The students doing it generally love it as long as they get a great job. But a common complaint you hear is like.. being promised you'll work in NYC! Only to get here and be assigned to some podunk town with nothing to do, etc.

The plight is very much like alot of the agricultural worker need - importing labor became critical as people weren't willing to do this kind of temporary work.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
This is proven false over and over when you talk to people doing actual hiring. You think $19/hr for jobs anyone can just walk into are not paying well?

People are getting $1500 hiring bonuses... for jobs that pay roughly $500 a week... and they can't even get people to apply. In a market 10months ago those very same workers would break down a door to get a $14/hr job... vs the typical $10/hr.

There is very much a labor shortage... Now is there a body shortage? No, but apparently people have better things to do or think themselves above such work.

Resort towns are crippled with the shortage of workers. You can make several hundred dollars A DAY - still can't get help. Why?

Truth is many markets have been relying on importing seasonal labor from international students for years - why? Because our domestic young adult workforce won't do the work anymore. And it's not these workers displacing domestic workers - because now, those domestic workers aren't showing up either!

For instance my community can't even keep it's pool open during the week right now due to lack of staff. Jobs that normally would be filled by students. But they don't come out to work anymore and the international students are still unable to come in force this year.

BTW... they are paying $18/hr to be a community pool lifeguard... no prior experience needed.
Maybe it depends on what professions you are hiring.

I don't have any experience in hiring migrant workers, or horticultural labor, so possibly false there, I don't know.

$500 a week is only $24,000 year, so still really low wages. At $500 a week, the bonus should be $5000, and that just gets you to the "living wage" in Texas of $29,000. I don't see any labor shortages where the compensation is several hundred dollars a day for semiskilled labor. Several hundred a day means, what?,$300 a day. That's $72,000yr. You would have semi-skilled labor arriving in droves if you offered that much compensation. We don't hire anybody for under $29,000.

I am involved in hiring, and I don't experience any of the "false". And, interestingly, lifeguards are some of the many folks we hire. It is a bidding war for lifeguards, and guess what? The entities that pay the best have no issue hiring guards. Zero shortage. The entities that pay the least, struggle to get staffed. Now I will say, lifeguards are seasonal, so in smaller more distant communities, that could pose a challenge.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Disney I understand follows the law and in keeping their cast employed with proper legal working status. There could be situations that if a cast member could not renew their green card status to legally work in the USA Disney wants no part of them and will part ways with them and that affects the Disney labor shortage. Are businesses out there hiring undocumented workers? That's affirmative and reality .
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Maybe it depends on what professions you are hiring.

I don't have any experience in hiring migrant workers, or horticultural labor, so possibly false there, I don't know.

I gave real examples with real numbers. These are migrant workers, horticulture, etc. This is typical part time work in suburbia.
$500 a week is only $24,000 year, so still really low wages. At $500 a week, the bonus should be $5000, and that just gets you to the "living wage" in Texas of $29,000.

These are not 'living wage' jobs. They are part time, hourly, no-skill labor positions. The reason I gave $500, etc is because they are REAL examples, not made up ones. If you are making $19/hr and working 25hrs a week.. you know.. part time.. that is $475. So round up to 500 assuming you get a few extra hours depending on your schedule.

Someone isn't expected to live comfortably solely on a 25hr per week job.

I don't see any labor shortages where the compensation is several hundred dollars a day for semiskilled labor. Several hundred a day means, what?,$300 a day. That's $72,000yr. You would have semi-skilled labor arriving in droves if you offered that much compensation. We don't hire anybody for under $29,000.

I'm sure if you offered people $72k/yr for brand new employees for just showing up you'd have no problem. You'd also be paying people multiples over what most people make... which means it's not anywhere near reality.

I am involved in hiring, and I don't experience any of the "false". And, interestingly, lifeguards are some of the many folks we hire. It is a bidding war for lifeguards, and guess what? The entities that pay the best have no issue hiring guards. Zero shortage. The entities that pay the least, struggle to get staffed. Now I will say, lifeguards are seasonal, so in smaller more distant communities, that could pose a challenge.

So I said what lifeguards are being paid here. What is your payscale for off the street for lifeguards where they have 'no issue'?

If there is no labor shortage.. why is it a bidding war?
 

aliceismad

Well-Known Member
Work ethic is in the toilet
People skills are way down
Entitlement is way up
Buoyed by movements that condition people to blame others rather than look at self-responsibility
I think American culture breeds both individualism and entitlement. They are different sides of the same coin.

I think there are myriad reasons for labor issues that cannot be boiled down to poor work ethic or lack of people skills or lack of responsibility.

I wonder how many "unskilled" workers have moved from entry level positions in fast food, retail, restaurants, etc. to delivery services (DoorDash, etc.) or ridesharing (Uber, etc.)? The pandemic certainly accelerated this new (and now large) set of job opportunities that was just coming into play pre-Covid.
On the backside of that, some entry-level "unskilled" or low-skilled jobs are being replaced. McDonalds has automated tellers in some drive-throughs now, Taco Bell has ordering screens in the lobby so you don't need a cashier. My local grocery store has a pricing gun that you carry and scan your own merchandise as you put things in your cart, essentially removing the cashier position. Target has self-scan registers. Banks have remote check deposit through your phone. There is a new medical office near me that doesn't have receptionists. You go in, check in on a screen, and get weighed and biometric info using a computerized system. Receptionists and call centers are outsourced or replaced with electronic systems or website functionality.

Not to mention the fact that some employers will reduce hours to keep workers under the hours cap where they would earn benefits like health insurance, 401K, etc.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Yes, even back in the 80s and 90s, it was very common for European Students to use their student status to get visas to come work in the US for 6months or so, then take the rest of the time to travel and enjoy. They were a perennial thing at the Atlantic Beaches - but they were still largely a small, self-organized portion of the labor pool.

As labor got more and more difficult to fill, the opportunity formed for companies to work as brokers and work to connect employers with prospective labor pools recruited from Europe. Add in the fall of the USSR, and you saw the increase in eastern euorpean students too. The agencies actually go overseas, recruit, and interview people in Europe. The agencies help organize housing, visas, hiring, etc. The model becomes so effective that it has grown to include other seasonal help like lifeguarding - another market that used to be filled almost exclusively with local HS/College aged kids.

These people were not displacing workers - they were backfilling. Where the 'exploitation' comes in is how the companies optimize to cut their expenses. Poor housing, crowded housing, over promising, etc. But the employers are not getting 'cheaper labor' - they are having to pay more to get this to work.

It's pretty common now for the big employers in OC MD to have to offer housing opportunities to get labor in town because housing has gotten so competitive with organized labor brokers taking up huge swaths of properties (plus, the removal of many properties as old structures get torn down for new, higher priced RE development).

The students doing it generally love it as long as they get a great job. But a common complaint you hear is like.. being promised you'll work in NYC! Only to get here and be assigned to some podunk town with nothing to do, etc.

The plight is very much like alot of the agricultural worker need - importing labor became critical as people weren't willing to do this kind of temporary work.
Most of the European kids ("kids" meaning anything from older teenagers to about 22-25 years old) I met at Ocean City (NJ) seemed pretty satisfied with the arrangement. They got to spend the summer in a pretty nice beach town, which is filled with people their age for several months, and they earned far more than they could expect at home. These were mostly just kids trying to earn some spending money, or save up for a big purchase back home, they weren't sending remittances to support an extended family.

The most common complaint I heard was of the lack of bars in town.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I think there are myriad reasons for labor issues that cannot be boiled down to poor work ethic or lack of people skills or lack of responsibility.

there is more than one reason - but dont discount those comments if you aren’t close to or involved in hiring lower wage jobs these days.

you heard prior complaints about millennials in the workforce? They got nothing one kids now…

just not ahow up and then maybe roll in next time like nothing happened. “Call out”? Not in their vocabulary… they just dont show and when you call them they are like “oh i cant be there today…” da fq?

quitting is so 2000s… you just ghost people now.

90% turnover in a day period…

and it goes on and on…
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
there is more than one reason - but dont discount those comments if you aren’t close to or involved in hiring lower wage jobs these days.

you heard prior complaints about millennials in the workforce? They got nothing one kids now…

just not ahow up and then maybe roll in next time like nothing happened. “Call out”? Not in their vocabulary… they just dont show and when you call them they are like “oh i cant be there today…” da fq?

quitting is so 2000s… you just ghost people now.

90% turnover in a day period…

and it goes on and on…
The tradesmen who are my patients report exactly that. They have trouble just getting their younger employees to just show up.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
The tradesmen who are my patients report exactly that. They have trouble just getting their younger employees to just show up.
If these younger guys invest in the market instead of buying some needless junk, one may not need to work so hard. The bull markets are running full steam ahead ( their money is working harder than they have to ). What is amazing is that the economies are not even fully opened yet.
 
Last edited:

Ayla

Well-Known Member
Read what I wrote again... I addressed this. The reason for the J-1 influx (and viability) is the lack of local workers.

You think employers like having to offer housing, pay agencies, etc vs paying local teens to do the same work? And wait staff don't earn different tips based on their country of origin...
Resort areas in WI have shipped in foreign workers for decades. It is nothing new. There literally are not enough locals to fill the jobs. It isn't because they're lazy or getting extra unemployment as a 17 year old. LOL

Covid put a big dent in it this year and there aren't enough local kids to work a part time, very short-term job.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Resort areas in WI have shipped in foreign workers for decades. It is nothing new. There literally are not enough locals to fill the jobs. It isn't because they're lazy or getting extra unemployment as a 17 year old. LOL

Covid put a big dent in it this year and there aren't enough local kids to work a part time, very short-term job.

That's just it.. there WERE enough locals - but now there isn't. Is that because we have less babies now? Is the population less? Was there a mass migration away? Or is it... people don't go there to work anymore. I can tell you what it is at the Atlantic Beaches... People from MD, PA, VA, NJ used to all migrate to these towns to work every summer. Now... they don't.
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
Resort areas in WI have shipped in foreign workers for decades. It is nothing new. There literally are not enough locals to fill the jobs. It isn't because they're lazy or getting extra unemployment as a 17 year old. LOL

Covid put a big dent in it this year and there aren't enough local kids to work a part time, very short-term job.
I grew up staying at Wisconsin Dells most of every summer. May Grandparents owned a place up there. Back then (70s) It was always the local kids from all around Wisconsin running all the attractions. When I brought my kids back in the 90s I was amazed that 50% of the "seasonal" help was European. The last time we were up there in 2017 it was up to about 75% European help with a summer and winter group since the dells was now a year round destination. Like an earlier poster stated, none were un happy to be there. It was win/win for everyone.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I grew up staying at Wisconsin Dells most of every summer. May Grandparents owned a place up there. Back then (70s) It was always the local kids from all around Wisconsin running all the attractions. When I brought my kids back in the 90s I was amazed that 50% of the "seasonal" help was European. The last time we were up there in 2017 it was up to about 75% European help with a summer and winter group since the dells was now a year round destination. Like an earlier poster stated, none were un happy to be there. It was win/win for everyone.
The young American hard work ethic is dwindling. Enter immigrants and or Eastern European etc who are happy to get the work and perform.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
That's just it.. there WERE enough locals - but now there isn't. Is that because we have less babies now? Is the population less? Was there a mass migration away? Or is it... people don't go there to work anymore. I can tell you what it is at the Atlantic Beaches... People from MD, PA, VA, NJ used to all migrate to these towns to work every summer. Now... they don't.
For the Atlantic coast, the issue for young people is housing. As a teenager, I looked into working on the Jersey shore, particularly Ocean City. Problem- unless you worked through the overseas hiring service, you needed to provide your own housing. Great if your parents owned a house there, not so great if they didn't. I would have needed to share a summer rent with about 5-10 other teenagers in one of the more squalid properties they typically rent to young people (and in another town besides Ocean City, because historically they do not rent to teens). It could have been done, but it was much easier and profitable just to stay home and find a summer job near where I lived, if maybe less fun.

I can't imagine that housing down the shore has become easier or more affordable for transient teenage laborers in the decades since I was that age. Judging by the advertised sale prices of shore houses I've seen lately, the situation is now probably impossible.

And to be clear, this isn't only an American problem. Pre-pandemic, I couldn't help notice that many of the attendants working in the trinket shops in smaller, more remote European tourist meccas like Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Hallstatt, or Lauterbrunnen were clearly shipped in from Asia, often with minimal skills in the local language or English.
 
Last edited:

Elfinko

Well-Known Member
You ever think of quitting that dead-end job to do something meaningful with your life, but you just cant manage to take the leap? Well, Covid pushed a lot of those people off that proverbial cliff via job losses, family deaths, pure fear or simple YOLO. Those people are not coming back. Many people have discovered (Largely because they were given no choice. Gotta eat, ya know.) that they can do better than low wage retail jobs, and they had a lot of time to figure out how to do it.

650,000 retail workers gave notice in April alone.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom