Disney is going to price us out of the Kingdom..

[ddbowdoin]

Never heard of it, but a steak is pretty much the easiest “high end” meal you can make. Good beef, well cooked and it will be good. There is not much cooking skill to it like there is in French cuisine that needs more technique.

I’ve had better steaks than at Le Cellier, but they do a solid job and the mushroom risotto is good.

There is also something to eating at EPCOT versus a restaurant off the highway. You’re paying for it all.

It’s in Brooklyn... it’s amazing, expensive.

I’ll also toss in the 32oz bone in Wagyu Tomahawk at Del friscos for a cool 100 bucks a steak.

 

[ddbowdoin]

Tokyo Disney park tickets area actually far cheaper. I think I paid $60? Problem is, you have to get there and Tokyo is very expensive otherwise.

A flight from Boston is like 1900 direct...

 

[flynnibus]

I would submit that the way public companies have approached consumers has changed significantly over that time, as a rule.

Not as a rule... but as what society values or tolerates. The bear mentality of the 80s and materialism has not left us.

The masses just believe this “shareholders at all expense..” is some cosmic law of public corporations. It’s not. It’s justification that has been repeated so much many just take it as gospel.

 

[ddbowdoin]

I’d easily spend more money if they capped attendance. If the crowds became more manageable I’d spend two hundred a day per person. That’s how much I hate the crowds.

 

[flynnibus]

But how vocal are these kinds of complaints? What tangible effect are they having on park attendance? MK and Disneyland remain the two most highly attended parks in the world, so if customer experience is the litmus that determines Disney’s success...we’re a speck in an ocean, and that ocean is satisfied. Satisfied enough to continue to go, and continue to pay. So what are they sacrificing? I just don’t understand. To me, that’s the reality of this situation.

You’re making the false association between attendance and customer satisfaction.

Disney has incredible inertia it has built through generations. It is something many believe they should do even before they even know what it truly is. Disney has also built up a huge recurring customer base through its sale of dvc. Now Disney keeps expanding its base through events, and things like hosting through world of sports.

Do not assume climbing attendance necessarily means a match in satisfaction or sentiment. For many, the product is still in the “we will tolerate the prices...” but that doesn’t mean the customer is satisfied with the arrangement.

People should take note how often the parks hit capacity... it’s not growing. The growth is coming from disney’s Successful filling out of the calendar and expanding the customer base to new visitor types.

 

[flynnibus]

As much as my heart remains there, the "then" WDW likely would not survive the current business paradigm.

The parks don’t need wall st. They already has the cash, capital and assets to raise their own money when needed. If their stock went to crap... or they were sold off... they would still function. What would not survive is the current paradigm of type of investors and leadership.

 

[OneofThree]

Not as a rule... but as what society values or tolerates. The bear mentality of the 80s and materialism has not left us.

The masses just believe this “shareholders at all expense..” is some cosmic law of public corporations. It’s not. It’s justification that has been repeated so much many just take it as gospel.

I'm not sure how much it matters "why" for the sake of this particular conversation, just that it is. As is the case with the vast majority of other traded corporations, Disney's executive management is driven by meeting forecast performance figures, with an emphasis on short-term metrics. With that in mind, I'm going to go out on a limb (not such a long one, however), and suggest that Disney Co.'s own bean counters know exactly what their sales mix needs to be, and the attendance numbers required to best achieve it. In terms of ticket or resort pricing addressing demand, I believe these would need to be increased disproportionately to realize similar profits due to the reduction of sales of food and merch. Not going to happen.

 

[flynnibus]

How should Disney improve their experience?

We've seen the suggestion that if Disney capped attendance, people would go more often and spend more. There's no logic to this. We can't have smaller crowds AND go more often. We'd be able to go less often. We'd be less happy.

capping attendance is one way to address the capacity and guest experience issues. There are many ways, but they take efforts that are not in isolation. Wdw is a package experience and should be tackled as such. Not just as individual PnL buckets.

Measure success based on customer sat and engagement.... not simply by how much you successfully extracted by force.

You say dcl is out of ppls price point. My beef with Disney is they want their cake and eat it too. They are demanding and selling a premium price point and are not delivering on that. So if they want to be that premium product... deliver on it... and people will pay and smile doing so.

Unless you live a weekend getaway Disney away... you don’t need to be going to disneyworld multiple times a year.

 

[Mouse Trap]

Assuming I don't make more money YOY, it becomes a game of what I'm willing to sacrifice:

Cook at home a few more times a month, take a couple less weekend trips, stay in for a night, go to DL/WDW less often....

Oh, wait... these are all major first world problems only applicable to people with disposable income. No complaints here. Most people on Earth will NEVER be able to visit WDW/DL let alone be given the opportunity to bicker about how "annual passes" "deluxe resorts" and "dessert parties" are exorbitantly priced.

I'm extremely lucky to experience DL/WDW as often as I do. When prices go up I figure out ways to save more or make more and then count my blessings.

There's no entitlement when it comes to vacations. Vacationing is a luxury and Disney is a major luxury.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

My beef with Disney is they want their cake and eat it too. They are demanding and selling a premium price point and are not delivering on that. So if they want to be that premium product... deliver on it... and people will pay and smile doing so.

Yet reaction on these boards to premium options seems to be negative, or at the very least mixed.

Some people want to pay more for a better experience, some people want Disney to be accessible to all. There's no pleasing everyone.

After Hours or dessert parties with reserved fireworks viewing are premium experiences with premium pricing. They're denounced as cash grabs and corporate greed.

Obviously, somebody is happily paying for those offerings, so it's hard to say if the opinions here represent a broader perspective.

Personally, I still think Disney does a decent job of catering to different levels of income and expectations.

 

[NickMaio]

How should Disney improve their experience?

We've seen the suggestion that if Disney capped attendance, people would go more often and spend more. There's no logic to this. We can't have smaller crowds AND go more often. We'd be able to go less often. We'd be less happy.

After Hours events actually provide this experience. Smaller crowds and guests spend more. Yet, these events are seen negatively by a great many people.

You noted that DCL gives a classic Disney experience. True, but it's outside many people's price point.

How do we possibly get to this mythical place where we all get a premium experience at an affordable price? If it's too expensive, people are turned away. If it's more affordable, people are turned away.

We stopped going every year because of the crowds, and astronomical yearly price increases- - - - I am sure that other families are doing this also. With SWGE opening this year - - WDW had another big spike.
That is less revenue from families doing this practice.

WDW and DL has been increasing prices almost 10 times the inflation rate - - - middle income families simply can't keep up.

Really that is what this thread was started for - - - - - - - - WDW pricing families out of their services.
possible solutions came up - - -yes WDW will not do any of these because $$$$$$$ is what they want.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

Yet reaction on these boards to premium options seems to be negative, or at the very least mixed.

Some people want to pay more for a better experience, some people want Disney to be accessible to all. There's no pleasing everyone.

After Hours or dessert parties with reserved fireworks viewing are premium experiences with premium pricing. They're denounced as cash grabs and corporate greed.

Obviously, somebody is happily paying for those offerings, so it's hard to say if the opinions here represent a broader perspective.

Personally, I still think Disney does a decent job of catering to different levels of income and expectations.

Premium experiences are fine so long as they are in addition to the resort's offerings under the base package instead of in replacement of. Otherwise, it's just monetizing and building a gate around stuff that used to be available to everyone. I certainly can understand how price increases for a lesser product could get people bent out of shape.

 

[NickMaio]

That is the mindset that leaves you only with shareholders and no customers.

Disney did not get where it is by being the same as everyone else. Yet people continue to insist the only way it can be going forward is to be like everyone else. Think about that...

Disney is a brand all about loyalty. It used to be about expectations and service too. But “great returns to shareholders” is not what will carry Disney forward as the lifestyle it became for generations.

Holding companies put shareholders first. Great companies know that doing great things will generate the returns to satisfy the fiscal side of life.

Yes - - - - We have been a WDW family for 2 generations now - - - going on three.
The decisions that WDW corp have made in their theme park division is causing us to financially evaluate our spending. Pay more for less - - harder to swallow every year. We only go every 3, not because we can't afford to go every year but we feel taken for and the overall value decreasing. You should not have to pay an extra $80 to get a good seat to see a show, pay to park your car !, pay...pay .... pay.

I hate the "others are doing this, so why can't WDW?" - - Because WDW always separated themselves from the others. That was one of the reasons why they were special and we kept going back.
Uni - does not make their guests pay to park their cars? - - - Just unreal!

Honestly we might start to go every 5 years and perhaps not at all, feels strange to type that

This shareholder / company profit mentality comes at a cost for us and I am sure others - - - if this continues WDW will lose a part of their customer base, just a matter of time.

 

[flynnibus]

Yet reaction on these boards to premium options seems to be negative, or at the very least mixed.

Don't blur the lines. It's not solely because they are premium options. People get rubbed over Disney converting 'standard' offers into 'premium' offers.. effectively monetizing what was standard previously. Or negatively impacting the 'standard' experience to create the premium experience. It's not the existence of premium that is the rub... It's the conversion and consequences of the premium offers that creates the friction.

I mean... look at the Deluxe Hotels. No one is gruff over the fact Disney has value, moderate, and deluxe hotels and tiered pricing offers. The issue is what Disney is offering FOR those price points and the expectations.

Some people want to pay more for a better experience, some people want Disney to be accessible to all. There's no pleasing everyone.

Again... mashing things up that are not one mix. People do not want Disney to not be ONLY for 'the rich'... The middle ground is the more expensive something is, often that means it impacts FREQUENCY of use. Which BTW.. would dove tail in with the idea of reduced availability due to reduced capacity.

After Hours or dessert parties with reserved fireworks viewing are premium experiences with premium pricing. They're denounced as cash grabs and corporate greed.

Because more often than not... they are being introduced AT THE EXPENSE of those not buying into the upsell. Be it reduced hours, schedule impacts, conversion of previous offers to paid offers, etc.

People complaining about 'nickle and diming' are not upset that people charge for things. They are upset that what used to be a more singular experience has been converted into smorgasbord of upsell options that many come at the expense of what used to be the baseline.

The analogy is.. It's not being upset that someone sells a hotdog for $5... it's being upset that buying a hotdog is now $5 for the dog, $2 if you want a bun, $1 per optional topping, and $3 dollars if you actually want a place to sit while you enjoy your hot dog.

 

[Chef Mickey]

In 2016, we paid $3128 for for 7 days at Pop Century. This included 7 day tickets with Park Hopper and Waterpark tickets for every day. This rate also included air fair for the 3 of us from Pennsylvania to Florida.

I just priced out our 2020 vacation at Pop Century again. We are driving. No flights. No Park Hopper. No Waterpark. Staying 6 nights. 5 Day park ticket. $3086. This obviously doesn't take into account the lost 40 hours to drive back and forth the Florida. The 2 nights we'll need to stay at hotels when traveling or gas.

So, yeah, it's frustrating. Getting much much less for our dollar. Cost has risen dramatically. I can guarantee my 'raises' at work haven't even begun to match the percentage by which the WDW prices are increasing. We only started going in 2014 and we try to go every two years.

Price your insurance from 2014. I mean, everything goes up and Disney isn’t some commodity like gasoline or electricity. It’s a vacation...for fun.

It’s not like I’m happy, but Disney isn’t alone here. They aren’t worried about how much your paycheck increased. They are charging what they can get, like everyone else.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Or The Olden days when IT was $119 a night

Remember the old days when Disney didn’t exist and you ran around in the rain for fun?

 

[Chef Mickey]

I’d easily spend more money if they capped attendance. If the crowds became more manageable I’d spend two hundred a day per person. That’s how much I hate the crowds.

I have been roasted repeatedly for saying the same thing. I’d be happy if they increased prices to $200/day if it reduced crowds 30% or something.

 

[Chef Mickey]

A flight from Boston is like 1900 direct...

Yeah, it’s around $2,000/ticket nonstop from my city.

 

[Jonathan Dalecki]

Curious, what's your basis for saying the cruise line offers better value?

I paid about $1800 this year for 6 nights at a moderate resort for two people, with park tickets.

A 7-night cruise looks to be in the $3500 range right now.

Disney cruise prices seem to have gone up a lot since the last time I sailed. They offer an amazing experience, but so much pricier than the competition.

They're great, but they've gotten to that "is this really worth it?" price for myself.

I was considering the cost of a Deluxe stateroom with an verandah compared to a deluxe like Wilderness Lodge or DAK Lodge.

 

[Me 'Earties]

Never heard of it, but a steak is pretty much the easiest “high end” meal you can make. Good beef, well cooked and it will be good. There is not much cooking skill to it like there is in French cuisine that needs more technique.

I’ve had better steaks than at Le Cellier, but they do a solid job and the mushroom risotto is good.

There is also something to eating at EPCOT versus a restaurant off the highway. You’re paying for it all.

Peter Luger is a well known steakhouse in Brooklyn. You may have seen their sauce sold at the grocery store (I see it in almost every local grocery but it may have to do with living just outside NYC):

I would agree with @mdcpr that their steaks are far superior to Le Cellier’s