Disney is going to price us out of the Kingdom..

[flynnibus]

Hawaii was beautiful, but it’s a different trip. Frankly, there isn’t a ton to do other than relax...which is great, but it’s not non stop entertainment. You have to largely make your own fun.

Boating?
Fishing?
Hiking?
Nature sightseeing?
Island hopping?
Beaches?
World class surf?
Diving?
Snorkeling?
Forrest tours...
The waterfalls..

I’m not sure what falls under “make your own fun” in your eyes... but you’re in an outdoor paradise... jump in

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

So you either haven't been priced out yet or were priced out long ago. Some of us just expect more of them and are disappointed. "It's a business" is a really poor excuse.

The point is, people who bring up the "Walt wanted Disney to be for everyone" argument because they personally have been priced out really mean that they want Disney to be affordable for them.

The reality is, Disney has never been accessible to everyone.

If Disney were to be priced where anyone could go, how would that even work? Would there be a wait list? Would we only be able to go every five years because now everyone wants their turn?

"Disney is a business" may be a cliche, but it's true. The parks keep getting busier. Hotels are booked solid. They're going to keep raising prices in this reality.

 

[flynnibus]

found hotels to be similarly priced, if not cheaper. For example, the Hyatt Regency in Lahaina which is BEAUTIFUL and on one of the most gorgeous beaches in the world is $350 (garden view) a night for August. The Yacht Club for a Garden view is $450!!!!

Yeah... and one is actually in a real paradise, not fake

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Funny... the movie theatre knows how to limit crowds... it’s called limit sales.

Movie theaters sell tickets until they are at capacity, as does Disney.

Asking Disney to cap attendance to make crowds more acceptable would be like asking movie theaters to not sell tickets in the first two rows (inferior seats).

Many people feel Disney is "over" their ideal capacity, but Disney isn't going to stop selling tickets just because we don't want to wait for than fifteen minutes to ride Splash Mountain. Just as movie theaters are going to sell every seat, so long as people are willing to pay for them.

 

[mdcpr]

Never heard of it, but a steak is pretty much the easiest “high end” meal you can make. Good beef, well cooked and it will be good. There is not much cooking skill to it like there is in French cuisine that needs more technique.

I’ve had better steaks than at Le Cellier, but they do a solid job and the mushroom risotto is good.

There is also something to eating at EPCOT versus a restaurant off the highway. You’re paying for it all.

It’s in Brooklyn and has been around for 130 years. Not sure what they do, but is the BEST steak I’ve ever had.

 

[mdcpr]

At the risk of bringing some of my Big Cruise Energy over from the cruise subforum, the Disney Cruise Line is where it is AT! 7 nights cruising the Caribbean for thousands less then you'd pay at WDW. PLUS virtually every single meal is included, with a few luxury restaurants for much less than you'd pay at Epcot. Unlimited free room service. Unlimited buffet breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Super nice restaurants with servers who follow you night to night. A movie theater showing regular and 3-D movies (I saw Tangled, Frozen, and Coco for the first time when onboard various cruises). Live nightly Broadway style shows with super talented performers. Stateroom hosts that will have your room immaculate twice a day. Places for all ages. Entertainment options that go on long after your WDW park would be closed. Character meet and greets. Cast members who eat, sleep, and breathe Disney magic and pixie dust. And, the beauty of it all, a capped number of guests! The ships will never hold more people than one maximum number! If you can get past the fact that you won't be able to ride the Haunted Mansion or what have you, the ships have it all over WDW.

You just sold me on this.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

The point is, people who bring up the "Walt wanted Disney to be for everyone" argument because they personally have been priced out really mean that they want Disney to be affordable for them.

The reality is, Disney has never been accessible to everyone.

If Disney were to be priced where anyone could go, how would that even work? Would there be a wait list? Would we only be able to go every five years because now everyone wants their turn?

"Disney is a business" may be a cliche, but it's true. The parks keep getting busier. Hotels are booked solid. They're going to keep raising prices in this reality.

What you are saying is true but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Disney to be affordable for a middle class family once every few years. It used to be. What has changed? A lot of the crowding problem has been self-inflicted.

What we are seeing with Disney is emblematic of what is happening nationally in the economy and in other businesses. The gap between the haves and have nots is growing wider and the middle is disappearing. I just don't see how alienating more customers is a good, long-term business plan.

 

[OneofThree]

In terms of ticket prices (when I looked it up last year), they were not any more expensive against median income than they were in the 1980's. As far as Disney lodging? They are far too many alternative options to be had at far less expensive rates to suggest that one has been "priced out". Disney is an MNC selling products and services (the case now more than ever). As long as they "get theirs", they could not possibly care less who they're getting it from.

 

[flynnibus]

Movie theaters sell tickets until they are at capacity, as does Disney.

Name a time anyone is blocked from buying general admission?

They only limit access to the parks in real time... and only at points that are effectively mandated due to safety.

the argument is this is the “only way” to control crowds is with pricing and it’s completely bogus. It’s disney’s way of maximizing returns within the pain threshold of its customers.

Disney has been raising prices faster than ever for the last decade and has it lowered crowding?? When will people snap out of it and stop buying that BS excuse. It’s a horrible way to “control crowds”.

Many people feel Disney is "over" their ideal capacity, but Disney isn't going to stop selling tickets just because we don't want to wait for than fifteen minutes to ride Splash Mountain. Just as movie theaters are going to sell every seat, so long as people are willing to pay for them.

Nice straw man... but no one is asking for 15min waits on SM. Limiting tickets is not a foreign idea... parks in Orlando do it for the promise of a superior experience and actually deliver on it!

Instead of. A movie theatre selling every seat... think of it more as “did the movie theatre put extra seats everywhere to keep boosting capacity beyond what would deliver a good experience”. Because that is what Disney keeps doing... stuffing the boxes and selling a pitch of excellence of which they fall well below.

Heck even on the cruise ships... Disney knows matching capacity to guest load is critical to customer satisfaction. Yet at the parks, it’s stuff it until the fire marshal says No Mas

 

[lindawdw]

My problem with Disney (and I actually wrote them an email and spoke with Guest Services in the last couple months) is that they keep building more and more resorts but are not expanding their parks fast enough to handle the capacity which has made for extremely long lines for attractions. We have been AP's holders for the last 20 years at least and are DVC members, so we have committed ourselves to doing Disney vacations, so my only hope is that these big ticket price increases actually do make some guests rethink their vacations which might make the park experience more enjoyable for those that continue to make WDW their vacation spot.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

At the risk of bringing some of my Big Cruise Energy over from the cruise subforum, the Disney Cruise Line is where it is AT! 7 nights cruising the Caribbean for thousands less then you'd pay at WDW. PLUS virtually every single meal is included, with a few luxury restaurants for much less than you'd pay at Epcot. Unlimited free room service. Unlimited buffet breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Super nice restaurants with servers who follow you night to night. A movie theater showing regular and 3-D movies (I saw Tangled, Frozen, and Coco for the first time when onboard various cruises). Live nightly Broadway style shows with super talented performers. Stateroom hosts that will have your room immaculate twice a day. Places for all ages. Entertainment options that go on long after your WDW park would be closed. Character meet and greets. Cast members who eat, sleep, and breathe Disney magic and pixie dust. And, the beauty of it all, a capped number of guests! The ships will never hold more people than one maximum number! If you can get past the fact that you won't be able to ride the Haunted Mansion or what have you, the ships have it all over WDW.

Curious, what's your basis for saying the cruise line offers better value?

I paid about $1800 this year for 6 nights at a moderate resort for two people, with park tickets.

A 7-night cruise looks to be in the $3500 range right now.

Disney cruise prices seem to have gone up a lot since the last time I sailed. They offer an amazing experience, but so much pricier than the competition.

They're great, but they've gotten to that "is this really worth it?" price for myself.

 

[NickMaio]

Movie theaters sell tickets until they are at capacity, as does Disney.

Asking Disney to cap attendance to make crowds more acceptable would be like asking movie theaters to not sell tickets in the first two rows (inferior seats).

Many people feel Disney is "over" their ideal capacity, but Disney isn't going to stop selling tickets just because we don't want to wait for than fifteen minutes to ride Splash Mountain. Just as movie theaters are going to sell every seat, so long as people are willing to pay for them.

Your analogy really does not hold any validity.

The comparison of a movie theater to WDW makes zero sense.
Each seat has a specific area for each customer. If 1 person purchases a ticket for a 3:00 movie or all the tickets are sold- once the movie starts the experience is the SAME.

Not true at WDW.........
They can and should limit customers - - - -- they are greedy at the expense of customer experience.
It is too bad but it is true!

Go back and look at ticket prices over the decades - - they are pricing out the middle income families - - - look at Disney Springs for crying out loud......Many of the stores are TOP tier stores.
WDW is sending a message out loud and clear they want a customer base with a MUCH higher expendable income.

 

[networkpro]

What you are saying is true but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Disney to be affordable for a middle class family once every few years. It used to be. What has changed? A lot of the crowding problem has been self-inflicted wound.

What we are seeing with Disney is emblematic of what is happening nationally in the economy and in other businesses. The gap between the haves and have nots is growing wider and the middle is disappearing. I just don't see how alienating more customers is a good, long-term business plan.

I won't get into the "haves" vs "the have not" argument, just be cognizant of the difference in just the US population between 1971 when WDW opened and today. That's 207.66 million then vs 328.81 million potential customers which may be in any socio-economic group.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

the argument is this is the “only way” to control crowds is with pricing and it’s completely bogus. It’s disney’s way of maximizing returns within the pain threshold of its customers.

Obviously Disney could lower attendance caps and provide a better guest experience.

I guess my question is, why is this a common suggestion? Why is it a topic of discussion when there is zero chance Disney is going to do anything of the sort?

And as I said before, if demand exceeds supply in this fantasy scenario where Disney is affordable and crowd controlled, how will that work? A wait list to visit WDW? Will the people asking for this be willing to go every five years or ten years, instead of annually?

People seem to want to a) have WDW be "affordable", b) be less crowded, and c) still go as often as they would like. How is this feasible?

When Disney does offer a premium experience in terms of crowd levels, via the After Hours events, people gripe about those as well.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

My problem with Disney (and I actually wrote them an email and spoke with Guest Services in the last couple months) is that they keep building more and more resorts but are not expanding their parks fast enough to handle the capacity which has made for extremely long lines for attractions. We have been AP's holders for the last 20 years at least and are DVC members, so we have committed ourselves to doing Disney vacations, so my only hope is that these big ticket price increases actually do make some guests rethink their vacations which might make the park experience more enjoyable for those that continue to make WDW their vacation spot.

*Crowding problem exists*

Disney: Let's build more resorts

*Crowding problem gets worse*

Disney:

 

[SteamboatJoe]

I won't get into the "haves" vs "the have not" argument, just be cognizant of the difference in just the US population between 1971 when WDW opened and today. That's 207.66 million then vs 328.81 million potential customers which may be in any socio-economic group.

View attachment 382787

They built 3 additional parks and 2 water parks at WDW during that time span to help with that. They also tried to build another resort in Virginia and expanded DLR.

 

[flynnibus]

Curious, what's your basis for saying the cruise line offers better value?

I paid about $1800 this year for 6 nights at a moderate resort for two people, with park tickets.

A 7-night cruise looks to be in the $3500 range right now.

Pretty sure you’re comparing an optimized scenario verse non.

For kicks... compared a 7 day trip first week of nov. POR with parkhoppers... 2 people.. $3023
7 day eastern Caribbean cruise for same week... $34xx

(Btw... Disney website crapped out twice trying to get that por package quoted...)

My point isn’t to find the cheapest or best price... but to simply point out that quoting the “best deal” when comparing things relatively is not that useful.

DCL is expensive...but you at least get a great customer experience. That feeling left wdw 15+ years ago

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Not true at WDW.........
They can and should limit customers - - - -- they are greedy at the expense of customer experience.
It is too bad but it is true!

How do you make this happen? When Walt owned the company, he may have been happy to limit his personal profit if it meant a better guest experience.

Disney is now a corporation. It is owned by a multitude of shareholders who are in it for the profit. Running things the way Walt did is a nice fantasy, but it's just that now, fantasy. You can't put this genie back in the bottle.

We can discuss how Disney is run now versus how it was run in the past versus how we think it should be run, but at what point are these ideas completely beyond the reality of what will ever happen? It just feels very futile and pointless.

 

[Amidala]

I'm not sure most people are dropping their AP's because they want to send a message.. most people it is simply a matter of being able to continue to afford it..

Maybe I misinterpreted the first post, but that was my takeaway. Obviously not sure how many agree or feel the same.

 

[OneofThree]

Obviously not sure how many agree or feel the same.

Dropped our 7 AP's not because we had to, but because Disney has methodically made us want to. If the current experience were worth what they're charging in my eyes. . .