Disney is going to price us out of the Kingdom..

[OneofThree]

If you don't think that 8 to 10 times the inflation rate over a decade is not the definition of greed - - - - that's too bad.
Greed is doing this again and again in the face of record profits - - - - -

Even as a staunch non-interventionist, I would agree with your subjective moral judgment that in general, absolutizing profit is "not good". But I believe you still fail to recognize the fine line between resounding success and insolvency for traded firms, no matter the market cap. In other words, it is what is and if Disney is to survive, they need to play according to the "rules" of the game, the current game. Do you for example, what would happen to Disney's cost of capital should they just up and decide to adopt your prescribed approach? Do you understand how that would impact the company, WDW included?

 

[Greg in TN]

Kreep drinking the Mickey kool-aid!

Why are you calling him a "Kreep" ? Everything he says is correct and true. Someone may not like it (and that's an individual's right), but that doesn't make it incorrect. Capitalism and the free market are based on supply and demand. When there's basically a fixed supply, at some point the price will hit a point where there is an equilibrium between supply and demand.

But, right now, even at this price, there is ample demand. If someone thinks the price is too high for a particular product, then the only rational decision for that person is to not purchase that product. If someone else sees value, even at this price, they will continue to purchase and the price is validated. If something is universally considered to be overpriced, the free market will eventually provide the mechanism for adjustments. Otherwise, you're talking about price-controls, which are a disaster --YIKES, let's not go there ...............

Personally, I don't see the value I once saw in a Disney visit, so I'm not purchasing one now. If the value improves to match the price, then maybe I'll go back -- if I haven't found something else that I'd prefer to spend my vacation dollars on.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Myself as benevolent overlord, deciding whom I want to let in on any given day based on my own shifting whims. Anyone who wanted admission would have to pass a rigorous screening, which would change daily. I'd charge idiots a fortune but anyone who could prove to me that they truly loved Disney would get in for a nickel. Sounds fair?

LMAO, . Careful @Jonathan Dalecki I have known some folks with boatloads of dough but I've seriously wondered if they were dropped on the head one too many times, we'd have to let them I'm

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The term "corporate greed" feels really overused.

When does "profit" cross the line to "greed"? Who defines it? People compare price increases to inflation. This might make sense to someone who stays in the same job. What about the many people who change jobs and see pay increases well in excess of inflation rates?

Isn't everything at Disney technically "corporate greed"? When it gets applied to everything, it means nothing. Charging for a churro? Greed! Charging for admission? Greed! Fireworks dessert party? Greed! After Hours event? Greed!

I still don't have an answer for how Disney is supposed to stay affordable, keep crowds in check, and be available for all who want to go.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

Who defines what a “middle income family” is? And I don’t think Disney is driving away all middle income families given their attendance. I know we are a middle income family and can go to Disney annually. I think middle income families have to consciously manage their money in order to go to Disney - but so what? It’s a luxury vacation, it shouldn’t necessarily be easy to afford. When the average price of a new car is $32,000 and the average size of a new house is 2700 square feet, I fail to believe middle class Americans CANT afford Disney - they choose to spend elsewhere. We can not afford to stay in a deluxe resort, and we don’t even feel comfortable staying in a moderate at current prices. But we still have fun. People act like they can’t enjoy a Disney vacation unless they’re staying at the Polynesian. Maybe we don’t get as much bang for our buck as we used to - small crowds, short lines - but Disney can still be done without breaking the bank with some flexibility.

Pew Research Center; household income that is between 2/3 and 2x the national median household income. So a household income roughly between $40,500 and $122,000. Obviously salaries and cost of living fluctuate greatly from one place to another. Research show that the middle class is shrinking and getting a smaller proportion of the income pie than in years past. You can't blame people who are being squeezed out in real life for getting emotional when their escape from reality starts doing the same thing.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Thanks - -you really put me in my place.
If you don't think that 8 to 10 times the inflation rate over a decade is not the definition of greed - - - - that's too bad.
Greed is doing this again and again in the face of record profits - - - - -

I bet you feel that the federal bailout of the banking and auto system was alright too.........

Don't worry about us - - - we can afford WDW prices - - - the value for these ever rising prices just does not balance anymore.

I really enjoy your views on your corrupt greed filled economic system.
Without the lower income families WDW and DL would have never got off the ground............now shareholders are more important than the people who rooted the company. My views are a skewed, nice!

I think he's saying the opposite. Don't bailout or artificial try to control anything. If the prices for the product really are not worth the value of the product, the market will take care of it.
If the business is now dependant on a certain segment and they alienate that segment, they will be forced to correct themselves or fail.
That's what it should do. Who they built the company on 50 years ago has no bearing.
I absolutely think it's greedy and I'll adjust accordingly. But yes, I will defend a company's right to business as they see fit as long as it's legal.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Kreep drinking the Mickey kool-aid!

Come back with a real response to my points and we can have a real discussion. If you're just going to post nonsense about Kool-Aid, don't bother quoting me.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

The term "corporate greed" feels really overused.

When does "profit" cross the line to "greed"? Who defines it? People compare price increases to inflation. This might make sense to someone who stays in the same job. What about the many people who change jobs and see pay increases well in excess of inflation rates?

Isn't everything at Disney technically "corporate greed"? When it gets applied to everything, it means nothing. Charging for a churro? Greed! Charging for admission? Greed! Fireworks dessert party? Greed! After Hours event? Greed!

I still don't have an answer for how Disney is supposed to stay affordable, keep crowds in check, and be available for all who want to go.

Greed could possibly be unnecessarily monetizing things that used to be part of the base package and nickel and dining customers despite taking in record profits at the box office, expending insane money to buy other studios, and having a well performing stock. Not illegal but I don't blame hard-working blue collar and even white-collar families for feeling jaded about it.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Thanks - -you really put me in my place.
If you don't think that 8 to 10 times the inflation rate over a decade is not the definition of greed - - - - that's too bad.
Greed is doing this again and again in the face of record profits - - - - -

I bet you feel that the federal bailout of the banking and auto system was alright too.........

Don't worry about us - - - we can afford WDW prices - - - the value for these ever rising prices just does not balance anymore.

I really enjoy your views on your corrupt greed filled economic system.
Without the lower income families WDW and DL would have never got off the ground............now shareholders are more important than the people who rooted the company. My views are a skewed, nice!

You can't compare tickets to Disney with average inflation that includes food, energy, transportation, etc.

Again, buy some DIS if you think they are robbing people. Then at least you'll make some money.

Shareholders own the company. That's how these things work. I didn't make the rules.

 

[bryanfze55]

Pew Research Center; household income that is between 2/3 and 2x the national median household income. So a household income roughly between $40,500 and $122,000. Obviously salaries and cost of living fluctuate greatly from one place to another. Research show that the middle class is shrinking and getting a smaller proportion of the income pie than in years past. You can't blame people who are being squeezed out in real life for getting emotional when their escape from reality starts doing the same thing.

Yes, I understand the frustration. But the question is, why are families at the mid-high to higher end of that “middle income” spectrum being squeezed out of Disney? Unless they live in a place like New York or LA, they aren’t struggling to put food on the table or a roof over their heads. If a family pulls in six figures, why can’t they swing a trip to Disney in at least a value resort? Most likely they’ve chosen other luxuries in life: lots of kids, bigger house, the good ole SUV...

 

[flynnibus]

The insane pricing boosts would mean nothing without people to hand over their wallets, which they have done & will continue to do. But even with inflated prices, more people are attending the parks than ever: 16,972,000 in 2010 and 20,859,000 in 2018. It isn't just pricing boosts falsely inflating Disney's revenue, it's bodies in the parks

The point is people like to keep pointing at 'increases' as signs of health. The counter point is demand is not up across the board, it's under utilized periods are being more utilized. So totals are up, but actual peak or sustained is not as much as the totals would make it seem. It's like a business that moves from 5 days a week to 7 days a week.... yes their customer counts will go way up.. even 40% (if you were to assume simple uniformity)... but that doesn't mean their daily business is up 40%. So don't get too hung up on the change in totals as a universal sign. It's not a fake number, but you must focus on what the number really represents.

And on revenue totals are up... but not nearly as much as the change in costs. Which means boosts are coming from the price changes more than actual growth in transactions.

In many ways, this is the only type of growth WDW can tolerate... it's at capacity in alot of way. But one must be careful when using the totals to support various claims.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

Yes, I understand the frustration. But the question is, why are families at the mid-high to higher end of that “middle income” spectrum being squeezed out of Disney? Unless they live in a place like New York or LA, they aren’t struggling to put food on the table or a roof over their heads. If a family pulls in six figures, why can’t they swing a trip to Disney in at least a value resort? Most likely they’ve chosen other luxuries in life: lots of kids, bigger house, the good ole SUV...

I fall into that demographic but can only speak for myself. For me, its primarily a matter of responsibly allocating that money towards savings for big, likely future expenses instead of Disney. I won't do it on credit. The time and cost to get down there also is a factor from where we live. It's not insurmountable but it's a challenge that has to be considered.

 

[Hakunamatata]

There are people who were priced out of WDW years or even decades ago.

There are people who have never been able to visit WDW, and never will be.

Yet, people create threads because they personally have been priced out. Not actually priced out, just not able to go "twice in two years".

Nobody loves WDW price increases, but the sense of personal entitlement can really be something else.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Greed could possibly be unnecessarily monetizing things that used to be part of the base package and nickel and dining customers despite taking in record profits at the box office, expending insane money to buy other studios, and having a well performing stock. Not illegal but I don't blame hard-working blue collar and even white-collar families for feeling jaded about it.

My issue is, everything gets labelled by some as corporate greed, so it becomes a pointless term, and it's easy to just gloss over those comments. When anything "profit" equals "greed", it's just not a useful discussion.

To me, it makes more sense to assess each issue on it's own.

Extra magic hours have been cut back. I'm critical of that. Fireworks dessert parties? A small thing that I can ignore. I don't care about them. People are free to agree or disagree, but when certain people label every single thing the same way, it's just noise.

 

[bryanfze55]

I fall into that demographic but can only speak for myself. For me, its primarily a matter of responsibly allocating that money towards savings for big, likely future expenses instead of Disney. I won't do it on credit. The time and cost to get down there also is a factor from where we live. It's not insurmountable but it's a challenge that has to be considered.

Well that’s a fair choice to make, but that does not mean Disney is out of reach for you. I would never say don’t save for retirement, etc just to go to Disney; but if one is already saving a good amount for retirement or whatever other goals they have and they still have money left over, they have to choose to allocate even more to savings or to have some fun. If they choose the former, that doesn’t mean Disney has priced them out. It means they made a choice.

 

[Chef Mickey]

My issue is, everything gets labelled by some as corporate greed, so it becomes a pointless term, and it's easy to just gloss over those comments. When anything "profit" equals "greed", it's just not a useful discussion.

To me, it makes more sense to assess each issue on it's own.

Extra magic hours have been cut back. I'm critical of that. Fireworks dessert parties? A small thing that I can ignore. I don't care about them. People are free to agree or disagree, but when certain people label every single thing the same way, it's just noise.

You're exactly right though. It just comes down to their personal story. If THEY are priced out, Disney is greedy. It doesn't matter if the entire industry is moving the same way or if the cost is still reasonable to someone else. If it's not reasonable to them, Disney is greedy.

People have a very hard time seeing things from anything but their own perspective.

I'm not disagreeing that the prices have gone up, but the product is different than 25 years ago too. Animal Kingdom didn't exist, as a an example.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

You're exactly right though. It just comes down to their personal story. If THEY are priced out, Disney is greedy. It doesn't matter if the entire industry is moving the same way or if the cost is still reasonable to someone else. If it's not reasonable to them, Disney is greedy.

People have a very hard time seeing things from anything but their own perspective.

I'm not disagreeing that the prices have gone up, but the product is different than 25 years ago too. Animal Kingdom didn't exist, as a an example.

And this takes us back to the original reason for this thread.

Someone complaining that they may not be able to go twice in the next two years, and falsely concluding that this moment, specifically applicable to them and their situation, is the moment Disney stopped being available for everyone.

 

[networkpro]

And this takes us back to the original reason for this thread.

Someone complaining that they may not be able to go twice in the next two years, and falsely concluding that this moment, specifically applicable to them and their situation, is the moment Disney stopped being available for everyone.

Well put, lots of folks have "Me Blinders" .

 

[Chef Mickey]

And this takes us back to the original reason for this thread.

Someone complaining that they may not be able to go twice in the next two years, and falsely concluding that this moment, specifically applicable to them and their situation, is the moment Disney stopped being available for everyone.

Well, that's because THEY want to go multiple times per year. They deserve it and it's Disney's job to make sure they can!

 

[Magenta Panther]

Welcome to the Robert Iger Company, ladies and gentlemen! Gone are the days of "There will always be 5 cent coffee in Disneyland" and "Poor kids will never have to pay to get into Disneyland" (actual quotes from Walt Disney).

And yeah, the glow is fading for me too. When you visit the parks and you see the cynical neglect, the rides not being in top condition (I'm looking at you, Yeti and Mr. Bluebird), the overflowing trash cans, the cheapie new attractions (Toy Story Peeling Decal Land!) then yeah, you start to have second thoughts. Next time I go to Florida, I'm staying at Universal and visiting WDW for a day or two just to catch up on the new stuff (still haven't ridden the Dwarfs ride or Frozen. Normally, I'd say riding the Tower again would be a draw, but now I'm terrified to go on it because I've read too much about the appalling deterioration and the switch from real film effects to digital). I really think I'm done with staying in a WDW park hotel. I'll still shell out for Disneyland though. It has just enough of the old magic to make me willing to open my wallet...for now.